Isaiah 53: A Contextual Discussion

[b&wpac4]

According to Yeshua, if he's the Jewish Messiah, there is only one path to God. We also know that the Jewish Messiah is very important to Judaism.

and if he isn't, then it is idolatry. Not an easy decision to make based on claims I cannot logically get behind.

 

[hamashiachagape]

and if he isn't, then it is idolatry. Not an easy decision to make based on claims I cannot logically get behind.

Well, we can discuss this if you wish. I'd really encourage you to make a scholarly judgment about this before dismissing something that could really have the potential to change your life. This is why I recommended the resources that I have.

Well, you have to understand that I also walked away from Christianity. I have studied Evangelical Christianity, amongst many other forms, and it is not the crux of the message being spoken of in the Brit Hadashah. So I became a Messianic Jew. Many times I have encountered people from different ways of life who have an emotional detachment from Yeshua moreso than anything else. This is especially true as I've found with Jewish people (remember the Holocaust for example). What is often lost in this message are the fruits of the true message. Elohim loved the world enough to give his life to all of mankind, and especially to the Jew, as the ultimate sacrifice. (John 3:16).

But I want to give you a few reasons why I believe its something for you to at least investigate in the context of a Hebraic understanding of the Brit Hadashah, vs. a Greek context. For one, is this message of love for you? Absolutely. Romans 3:29 declares "Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too," This is a message for everybody. Yeshua declares further in John 14:6-7 "6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7If you really knew me, you would know[a] my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him." According to Yeshua, if he's the Jewish Messiah, there is only one path to God. We also know that the Jewish Messiah is very important to Judaism. This is why its important to understand whether this is truth or not. It has implications for whether one believes it or not.

Its important that we follow the Torah. After all, God commends the behavior of Abraham for not following the majority, and following the ways that he commands, which are written in the Torah. This needs to be remembered if the traditions of the elders go against the way that God has commanded. Will God condemn you for this? Absolutely not! Yeshua is often taught that he did away with the Jewish Torah. This is incorrect. Matthew 5:17-20 17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven." The other one, who was a Pharisee who was doing the will of God was Rav Shaul. He states in Acts 24:14 " 14"But this I admit to you, that according to (A)the Way which they call a (B)sect I do serve (C)the God of our fathers, (D)believing everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets;" You see, none of this is ever mentioned to you. Why? Because of religious practices of the Chrsitian church. They don't even see this stuff. Its because of mere tradition that this is so. After seeing the ways of the Pharisees adding to the Torah, as opposed to Deuteronomy 12:32 " 32 See that you do all I command you; do not add to it or take away from it." This is also given in Deuteronomy 4:2. The interpretation of Exodus 23:2 has been now understood to mean "follow the ways of the majority." But Exodus 23:2 states " 2"You shall not follow the masses in doing evil, nor shall you testify in a dispute so as to turn aside after a multitude in order to (A)pervert justice" This is defined as adding and taking away from the Torah as well. There have also been other standards added to the Talmud that are not from the Torah, like handwashing ceremonies and such. I understand your dedication to the Talmud. Your desire is to be admired. But its important to have your desires directed in the area of truth.

For this reason, I encourage your study. Follow the Torah out of love for God. This is not a matter of a religion to follow, but rather, following whatever is the truth. If Yeshua is God and the Messiah, and his message is true, then you understand his message has implications. Studying well studied resources is the best way to come to this determination (and not just a onesided assessment either). And for this reason, I recommended the resources that I have to you.

 

[b&wpac4]

For this reason, I encourage your study. Follow the Torah out of love for God. This is not a matter of a religion to follow, but rather, following whatever is the truth. If Yeshua is God, and his message is true, then you understand his message has implications. Studying scholarly resources is the best way to come to this determination (and not just a onesided assessment either). And for this reason, I recommended the resources that I have to you.

Can I ask why everybody who believes in Jesus (I'm sorry, I just refuse to use the words of the Messianic movement) thinks I couldn't possibly have studied enough, just because I haven't come to the same conclusion?

You became a Messianic Jew. You're still a Christian, you just follow different cultural customs. You never walked away from Jesus. You never changed your opinion on who he was. You may have embraced a slightly different version, but fundamentally speaking you believe the same thing my parents do.

I studied the entire Jesus thing for a long time. Long before I ever knew a thing about Judaism. Back when I thought Judaism was simply Christianity without Jesus. Beyond that, I kept praying for answers, to find out why I was having so much problem holding onto the faith. But the truth is quite simple. It was always empty, it was never there. There was no Holy Spirit inside, my body was no Temple, there was no Jesus interceding.

I forgot about God entirely at that point. I still would occasionally look at new sources for proving Jesus, but they were the same arguments over and over again. The same arguments that Messianics present. There are Hebrew words thrown into your arguments and that's really the difference.

 

[hamashiachagape]

Well, lets get one thing straight first off. I am actually an Apologist because of the fact that I rejected Christianity. I did walk away from Jesus. Let me explain.
A long while ago, I came to the conclusion that Christianity did not make any sense. I basically told my ministers all around me, and consulted them for advice. I told them that I no longer felt the presence of the Holy Spirit, and like you, I couldn't feel Jesus interceding in my life. I was told the same thing over and over again. You just have to have faith (defining this term the wrong way for me by the way...its actually meant to the ANE culture something that is based around evidential support). I was told that it was okay to have doubts, yet that wasn't good enough for me. I had to know for sure. I turned to two scholars who were friends of mine, one who held a Doctorate in Theology, a Masters in Religious Studies, and a Masters in Psychology, and another who held a Doctorate in Philosophy, a Masters in Religious Studies and a degree in Music. I then ran into James Patrick Holding whom I asked a slew of different questions to and these guys started answering my questions in a scholarly view. Coupled with some experts that he had on material, these resources helped me understand things formulating arguments with logical principles. I determined myself to find the truth, no matter which road this led me to. In the process, I studied various religions, such as Shintoism, Hinduism, Sikhism, Islam, Judaism, Christianity (all different kinds), Buddhism, Confucianism, Agnosticism, Atheism, Skepticism, Bahai, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, Seventh Day Adventism, Wiccan, Christian Science, Universalism, the list goes on and on. I found that I could refute all of these utilizing logic and seeking where the evidence was headed. All except Judaism and Christianity. The interesting thing was that I was encouraged to study everything from these logical principles, and was encouraged to study from a more Greek perspective and I realized it lacked truth. I knew that the Biblical writers were Jewish, and they were all approaching it from perspectives that contradicted themselves. The use of the early church fathers was highly encouraged, and after a thorough study of them, I knew that this could not be compromised with my beliefs. I studied the different anthropological aspects underlying these religions, and cultural factors. And as you can see, I also did the same thing with the oral tradition of Judaism.
After studying everything Theologically, I came to the conclusion that there was truth in two things that I had no way to refute. Those two things were part of Judaism and part of Christianity. So I combined the two and didn't know what I believed in for a long time. Then I found, after several years later, Messianic Judaism. Today I solely follow the writings of the Bible, and utilize a Jewish perspective. That in a nutshell is my life.

Lets get back to the topic at hand.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Well, lets get one thing straight first off. I am actually an Apologist because of the fact that I rejected Christianity. I did walk away from Jesus. Let me explain.
A long while ago, I came to the conclusion that Christianity did not make any sense. I basically told my ministers all around me, and consulted them for advice. I told them that I no longer felt the presence of the Holy Spirit, and like you, I couldn't feel Jesus interceding in my life. I was told the same thing over and over again. You just have to have faith (defining this term the wrong way for me by the way...its actually meant to the ANE culture something that is based around evidential support). I was told that it was okay to have doubts, yet that wasn't good enough for me. I had to know for sure. I turned to two scholars who were friends of mine, one who held a Doctorate in Theology, a Masters in Religious Studies, and a Masters in Psychology, and another who held a Doctorate in Philosophy, a Masters in Religious Studies and a degree in Music. I then ran into James Patrick Holding whom I asked a slew of different questions to and these guys started answering my questions in a scholarly view. Coupled with some experts that he had on material, these resources helped me understand things formulating arguments with logical principles. I determined myself to find the truth, no matter which road this led me to. In the process, I studied various religions, such as Shintoism, Hinduism, Sikhism, Islam, Judaism, Christianity (all different kinds), Buddhism, Confucianism, Agnosticism, Atheism, Skepticism, Bahai, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, Seventh Day Adventism, Wiccan, Christian Science, Universalism, the list goes on and on. I found that I could refute all of these utilizing logic and seeking where the evidence was headed. All except Judaism and Christianity. The interesting thing was that I was encouraged to study everything from these logical principles, and was encouraged to study from a more Greek perspective and I realized it lacked truth. I knew that the Biblical writers were Jewish, and they were all approaching it from perspectives that contradicted themselves. The use of the early church fathers was highly encouraged, and after a thorough study of them, I knew that this could not be compromised with my beliefs. I studied the different anthropological aspects underlying these religions, and cultural factors. And as you can see, I also did the same thing with the oral tradition of Judaism.
After studying everything Theologically, I came to the conclusion that there was truth in two things that I had no way to refute. Those two things were part of Judaism and part of Christianity. So I combined the two and didn't know what I believed in for a long time. Then I found, after several years later, Messianic Judaism. Today I solely follow the writings of the Bible, and utilize a Jewish perspective. That in a nutshell is my life.

Lets get back to the topic at hand.

Good post!

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

NP

 

[Job8]

This opens up the surrounding context of Isaiah 53. After this topic has been exhausted, we can discuss the internal context.

No need to labor the point. Just go to Acts 8:26-35.

26 And the angel of the Lord spake unto Philip, saying, Arise, and go toward the south unto the way that goeth down from Jerusalem unto Gaza, which is desert.

27 And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship,

28 Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet.

29 Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.

30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?

31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.

32 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:

33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.

34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?

35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.