Isaiah 14:12 Lucifer translation

[childofdust]

Greetings. I was translating Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 and I notice there was a bit of confusion on Isaiah 14:12 and the word used for "lucifer".
This is how that verse is word for word in the hebrew and what I can't figure out is why "howl ye!" is not shown in most Bible versions.
What exactly is the controversy concerning this verse and translation. Thanks.

Scripture4All - Greek/Hebrew interlinear Bible software

Isaiah 14:12 How thou fell from heavens! howl-thee!/03213 yalal son of dawn/01966 heylel. Thou was hewn down to land, one defeating over nations.

03213 yalal {yaw-lal'} a primitive root; TWOT - 868; v
AV - howl 29, howlings 1, variant 1; 31
1) (Hiphil) to howl, wail, make a howling

01966 heylel {hay-lale'} from 01984 (in the sense of brightness); TWOT - 499a; n m
AV - Lucifer 1; 1
Lucifer = "light-bearer"

KJV) Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! [how] art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! {O Lucifer: or, O day star}

NKJV) Isaiah 14:12 " How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! [How] you are cut down to the ground, You who weakened the nations!

NASB) Isaiah 14:12 "How you have fallen from heaven, O star of the morning, son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the earth, You who have weakened the nations!

JPS1917 OT) Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O day-star, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, that didst cast lots over the nations!

Hey, I just translated this part of Isaiah! Cool.

As we know from context, this is part of a song of mockery. When Babylon is flung to the underworld, all the dead kings (Rephaim) and other inhabitants of the underworld--many of whom were, themselves, flung down to death by Babylon, will gather in amazement to see the great and mighty one that overturned them all reduced to the same state as they:

10. All of them will commence to tell you:
“Even you!
You are debilitated like us!
Like us, you have become!
11. Brought down [to] the underworld
[is] your splendor!
[To] death, your corpse [descended]!
Beneath you, maggots are spread!
[What] covers you [are] worms!
--the heavenly fire (my translation)

Then the dead ones will mock this earthly power that rose so high and fell so low saying:

12. How did you fall from the sky,
luminous son of dawn?
You are felled to the earth,
impotent against the nations!
--the heavenly fire (my translation)

There are a number of reasons why "howl" would not work.

First, as the example from Zechariah attests, the verb YLL is used to describe a response to pain and destruction that comes upon those who are at the time still living. In Isa 14, Babylon is no longer living, it is already dead. It is not watching everything that is precious to it go up in flames. It has already lost everything, including itself. Now it stands, surrounded by the dead, in the grave.

Second, this is a speech of mockery and ridicule by the dead ones. They are not commanding Babylon to do things. They are describing how far Babylon has fallen from attaining such heights to having come to the utter depths of the earth where they are. There are no Imperatives in that section. To slip in the Imperative "howl!" would be completely out of place.

Third, as all the Versions attest, the verb was understood in ancient times to come from the root HLL (to shine/be luminous), not YLL (to howl). Now, they could all be wrong--but if they are, there should be a clear reason for it. So far, I do not see any clear reason in your posts other than that in some other place, the same consonants can mean "howl!" Unfortunately, some other place doesn't have any bearing on this particular place.

Fourth, in the immediate context, the word heyleyl is followed by the phrase "son of dawn," which makes it extremely likely that the word means something related to light.

Fifth, there is an Akkadian word (Akkadian was the language used by Babylon, the subject of the verse), that is extremely similar to this Hebrew word: halilu. It means "clear/bright/shining."

Sixth, there is an Arabic word that is extremely similar to this Hebrew word: halla. It means "to be radiant."

For all these reasons (and more), there is every reason to think the Hebrew word in question means something like "shining/luminous [one]" and, so far as I can see, no reason from the text itself to think it means "howl."

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus

Greetings. I was translating Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 and I notice there was a bit of confusion on Isaiah 14:12 and the word used for "lucifer".

​

Hey, I just translated this part of Isaiah! Cool.

As we know from context, this is part of a song of mockery. When Babylon is flung to the underworld, all the dead kings (Rephaim) and other inhabitants of the underworld--many of whom were, themselves, flung down to death by Babylon, will gather in amazement to see the great and mighty one that overturned them all reduced to the same state as they:

10. All of them will commence to tell you:
“Even you!
You are debilitated like us!
Like us, you have become!
11. Brought down [to] the underworld
[is] your splendor!
[To] death, your corpse [descended]!
Beneath you, maggots are spread!
[What] covers you [are] worms!
--the heavenly fire (my translation)

Then the dead ones will mock this earthly power that rose so high and fell so low saying:

12. How did you fall from the sky,
luminous son of dawn?
You are felled to the earth,
impotent against the nations!
--the heavenly fire (my translation)

There are a number of reasons why "howl" would not work.

First, as the example from Zechariah attests, the verb YLL is used to describe a response to pain and destruction that comes upon those who are at the time still living. In Isa 14, Babylon is no longer living, it is already dead. It is not watching everything that is precious to it go up in flames. It has already lost everything, including itself. Now it stands, surrounded by the dead, in the grave.

Second, this is a speech of mockery and ridicule by the dead ones. They are not commanding Babylon to do things. They are describing how far Babylon has fallen from attaining such heights to having come to the utter depths of the earth where they are. There are no Imperatives in that section. To slip in the Imperative "howl!" would be completely out of place.

Third, as all the Versions attest, the verb was understood in ancient times to come from the root HLL (to shine/be luminous), not YLL (to howl). Now, they could all be wrong--but if they are, there should be a clear reason for it. So far, I do not see any clear reason in your posts other than that in some other place, the same consonants can mean "howl!" Unfortunately, some other place doesn't have any bearing on this particular place.

Fourth, in the immediate context, the word heyleyl is followed by the phrase "son of dawn," which makes it extremely likely that the word means something related to light.

Fifth, there is an Akkadian word (Akkadian was the language used by Babylon, the subject of the verse), that is extremely similar to this Hebrew word: halilu. It means "clear/bright/shining."

Sixth, there is an Arabic word that is extremely similar to this Hebrew word: halla. It means "to be radiant."

For all these reasons (and more), there is every reason to think the Hebrew word in question means something like "shining/luminous [one]" and, so far as I can see, no reason from the text itself to think it means "howl."

Informative post. Thank you




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