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Is YEC science? Is is even really a theory?

rjs330

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Of course I don't have a problem with anything God did. Why would I?

He's God. He never does anything unjust because he knows everything. He understands everything. His ways are not our ways or thoughts our thoughts. That's good because we are ignorantz stupid, foolish and evil. We are never fully just. We don't know anything. We don't know the beginning or the end of anything. Half the time we don't even know our own thoughts. You live on this planet for a short 75 years or so. You pretty much have to be taught everything either by someone else or trial and error. You dont have the knowledge ofuch of anything and have no idea what we haven't discovered yet. You yet you assume that we as humans are smart enough and wise enough?

This is why a fool says in his heart there is no God.

I've got no issues with what God does b cause I know he is perfect in all his ways and am not.
 
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Bradskii

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As regards exhibiting a lack of knowledge of both subjects, this takes the gold sash. Let me make this simple for you.

Life started on this planet. We call that abiogenesis. And then it evolved. Here's the deal. I'll accept your claim that God was the One that started the ball rolling. He started life, but we don't know yet how He did it.

Does that in some way deny that evolution happened? No. Does that mean that He didn't use evolution as the process to get from there to here? No. Does that mean that we can't study evolution because we don't know what process God used for abiogenesis? No. Does that mean that after umpteen posts from a variety of people explaining the differences between the two subjects you have understood what is being discussed? No.

And I don't expect that last point to change. Exhibited by the fact that you are asking questions and are being given detailed and concise answers by people who are trying to help you undertsand...but you are simply ignoring them. And therefore wasting everyone's time.
 
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Bradskii

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There is no galactic amount of evidence unless you believe that there is. There isn't.
That's simply perverse. To attempt to refute the evidence is one thing. To deny that the largest body of evidence for any scientific theory simply doesn't exist is to be in denial.
 
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Bradskii

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I've got no issues with what God does b cause I know he is perfect in all his ways and am not.
Therein lies the problem. If someone switches off their morality meter and simply says 'If God commands it, it's OK', then if that person believes that He has commanded them to do something, there is literally nothing that cannot be done. Whether He would ask that person or not is not the point. If someone reaches a situation where they can say, as you just did 'I have no issues with what God does', then the most horrendous acts are possible. Let's face it, drowning a planetfull of babes in arms and young children and pregnant women and the bed ridden etc is about as horrific as you can get.

And you have an escape clause. It's was story told in times way past to strike the fear of God into simple people. To convince them to do good. To not sin. Otherwise the wrath of God will descend on them. It's not actually true. It's a morality tale. And I can well imagine God rolling His eyes when He hears people say 'Hey, personally speaking I think it was perfectly acceptable'.

Someone saying that if they believe it's God's will then literally anything is acceptable and that therefore excuses them from moral determination is an abnegation of personal responsibility.
 
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Kylie

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Spoken like someone who has no idea what they are talking about.

How do you test your "God did it" idea? Go on, actually tell me. How do you test it? You can't. it's completely untestable. The science, on the other hand, is easily testable. And that's the difference. Religion gives us an untestable, unfalsifiable claim that not only are we told not to question, but has intentionally made itself untestable. Science invites investigation and welcomes the chance to be put to the test.
 
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Kylie

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Abiogenesis is NOT the beginning of evolution. That's like saying mining is the beginning of learning how to drive a car, because the car can't exist without mines to get the metal the car is made from.

You try to act like you know what you are talking about, but I suspect that you've got your "science" from a bunch of creationists, so what you have is nothing more than a poor strawman of science, and is completely useless in every way.
 
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Gene2memE

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Uh oh....someone is dodging the question because they can't answer it. Now let me educate you.

Abiogenesis is the beginning of evolutionary theory. It is the foundation.

It's not.

Life reproducing and passing on heritable variations is the foundation of evolutionary theory.

Darwin and Wallace described existing life and fossil remains in their formulations of the Theory of Evolution By Natural Selection. No understanding, or even discussion, of the origin of life was necessary.

The origin of life doesn't need to be considered AT ALL for the Theory of Evolution to accurately describe the observed fact of evolution, nor the history of life on earth.

You can't have a working theory without a beginning.

You can. For instance, we have working theories of the fundamental interactions in physics, without having an understanding of what caused the beginning of the universe. All we need are observation and testing based on our predictive models.

This is sort of like arguing that if you don't understand the beginning of the universe, you can't have a working theory of nuclear physics, or gravity, or quantum mechanics.

If I ask you, how did life begin? The atheist answer is always the same. You avoid the question.

We don't fully know. We may never have a full understanding of the particular circumstances that led to the formation of life on earth.
However, we have some understanding of the processes that needed to occur for simple self-replicating molecules to become complex self-replicating molecules which at some point at a minimum of 3.8 billion years ago (and in all likelihood more like 4.1 billion years ago) became 'life' as we define it.

If abiogenesis is not true, then you must accept the existence of an eternal, uncreated God.

Errrm, what? This makes as much sense as saying "If meatballs go with pasta, then you must accept the existence of an eternal, uncreated Flying Spaghetti Monster".

Abiogensis is a collection of hypotheses about how life could have started on earth. You can't say "abiogenesis is not true". At most, you could say that our current hypotheses are not adequate to explain the origination of life on earth. And so those hypotheses would just get replaced with better candidate explanations.

Louis Pasteur proved that abiogenesis is not true.

No, he disproved spontaneous generation. Which is the idea that certain living things were created (fully formed) inside inanimate material. Abiogenesis is the hypothesis that biological life is derived from simpler non-biological self-replicators.

So there is your evidence for an eternal, uncreated God. Unless you provide evidence that abiogenesis is true, then evolutionary theory collapses into the hole where it's foundation should be.

It's not evidence for God.
If I say the evidence shows that the butler didn't commit a murder, it's not evidence for someone else having committed it. Evidence needs to be specific to the claim and exhaustive of other claims. If all existing origin of life research was invalidated tomorrow, it would have no bearing on whether a God or gods exist or not, nor whether such a being is capable of creating life, nor whether such a being did in fact create life.

So again, please tell me if Dawkins presents evidence for abiogenesis in his book, or if he is just blowing hot air from both ends.

Dawkins may or may not have presented evidence of abiogensis, but that's totally immaterial to the actual point.

Origin of life research is an ongoing field. New hypotheses and evidence about the origin of life continue to be produced.

At the moment, ALL of the evidence suggests life is derived from a universal common ancestor that lived about 4 billion years ago and that life has evolved progressively since then, undergoing multiple periods of rapid diversification and adaptive radiations.

At the same time, none of the evidence points to a deity being involved, or of any particular religious creation myth accurately describing the development of life on earth.
 
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Kylie

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A-biogenesis = not from biogenesis = from the dust of the ground.
What are you going on about?

"abiogenesis, the idea that life arose from nonlife more than 3.5 billion years ago on Earth. Abiogenesis proposes that the first life-forms generated were very simple and through a gradual process became increasingly complex." SOURCE
 
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Astrid

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If any creationist had something real to,say
they'd have no need to resort to such nonsense
and falsehoods.
Presumably, they'd even be too embarrassed.

They'd just submit their contrary data,
disprove the ToE, take their title as discoverer of
the century and watch as the vast wave of
Back to the Bible circled the earth.

Instead, it's made up blather like " to evolutionists
everything is evidence", an insult to the intelligence
of anything more evolved than an ammonite.
 
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Astrid

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Nope. Sorry ah. Origin of universe is the
foundation of all theory.
Therefore God.
You've simply no aptitude for logic.
 
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rjs330

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That's interesting coming from someone who believes in another untestable theory. Oh you can test for similarities among creatures. But all your tests? That all they show. They do not show that evolution happened the way it's claimed. You can't test that either.

All these testable silarities show that there is a design in nature. And if there is a design there is a designer.
 
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Kylie

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A-biogenesis = not from biogenesis = from the dust of the ground.
Deciding that scientists mean something that fits with your religious views doesn't mean that's what the word actually means.

I told you what it means, but I guess this is a case of you denying reality again, huh? How do you put it? Reality can take a hike? That only works if you are happy living in fantasy.

(And no, I am not calling Christianity a fantasy. I am saying that fantasy is what is left when reality is rejected. There are lots of Christians who do not reject reality.)
 
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rjs330

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Lol, I've discussed this with so many of you evolutionists I know what I'm saying. Everytime something is brought up you know what the answer is? Evolution. Why this or why that? Evolution. Why do chickens have feathers on their legs? Evidence of evolution. Why do spiders have right eyes? Evidence of evolution.

No it's all evidence according to you guys.
 
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Kylie

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You make lots of claims, but you know what you've never produced? Evidence to back up your claims.

Evolution has evidence, creation does not. So let's see you provide some.
 
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