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See if you can find it, regarding water immersion baptism :If water baptism is a requirement to be saved, why then did the Spirit fill them on the day of Pentecost. There was no record of them being baptized. The Spirit would not fill an unredeemed heart. This is an apostolic teaching, which I have been a part of for a long time, until God Himself showed me how wrong it was, fully legalistic. No one fully obeys God, only Jesus did. Full obedience has never been required for salvation. Because only Jesus was perfect, which is why we must be baptized or immersed fully in Him. The redeemed soul always wants to obey God, but our conditions sometimes hinder our obedience. But that does not mean we are not saved, it means we are his workmanship in progress. Baptism is a form and symbolic but has no redeeming power what so ever. If man can be justified by the doing of the law (obedience) then Christ is dead in vain (he didn't have to die if this was possible).Praise God for His grace and truth.
I don't dispute that at all, and God is certainly not about to be told by us who he can or can't save, yet baptism is a recurring thread in scripture, and indeed Jesus himself was baptised, setting for us a pattern or normative Christian practice.Well, Jesus told the thief on the cross that surely he would be with Him in Paradise today..., and he had not been baptized, but believed. If it is a law, then many a man seeking the fulfillment of Christ's promise on the battlefield are in hell because they believed, they received Christ, but they did not have the ability to be baptized in the water.
Is water baptism a requirement to be saved
Sure. But water is not always available. So no.I don't dispute that at all, and God is certainly not about to be told by us who he can or can't save, yet baptism is a recurring thread in scripture, and indeed Jesus himself was baptised, setting for us a pattern or normative Christian practice.
See if you can find it, regarding water immersion baptism :
those who were immersed, believed Jesus is the Messiah , son of the Living God.
those who were not immersed, did not accept Jesus as the Messiah - they rejected Him.
Where did this come from?? He is not talking about works, or anything of the sort. The OP asked strictly about is water baptism necessary, and the answer is yes.
The Bible clearly states that we are to be baptized and "born again" in water and spirit.
John 3:5 "Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."
Sounds pretty clear to me.
No, you missed the key verse of definition from Jesus when he shows the two births he is talking about. The one birth of the flesh and the other of the spirit,The problem with the first exegetic example you gave is that it doesn't make sense. I've heard this explanation from many Protestants - but the conversation stops after I say what I am about to say:
If Jesus had said plainly, "Very truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit" - he would be condemning all aborted and miscarried children to Hell.
To put it frankly - it would have been moronic for Jesus to say this because Nicodemus already knew how children are born. He was asking Jesus how a person is born AGAIN. In this verse (v. 5), Jesus explains to him how this is done.
Consider your position if this conversation had taken place in plain English:
Nicodemus: “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God because nobody could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.”
Jesus: “I’m telling you the truth – nobody can get to Heaven unless they are born again.”
Nicodemus: “How can someone be born when they are old? They can’t go back into their mom’s womb to be born!”
Jesus: “I’m telling you the truth – nobody can get to Heaven unless they come from their mom’s womb.
Do you see how silly and nonsensical this exchange is when you remove Baptism from the context??
Nicodemus's next response would have been something like this:
Nicodemus: “I already know how kids are born but that's NOT what I asked you."
All OT saints were saved by grace through faith and not by water baptism or by outward circumcision etc. The true circumcision has always been of the heart in the old and new testaments.The context of Hebrews chapter 9, the Hebrew writer is showing the differences between the OT and the NT... giving a description of how those OT rites were performed then showing how the blood of Christ is superior to those of animal sacrifices Heb 9:1-15. Then in verses 16 and 17 shows how those under the OT (as us today) still required the blood of Christ to have all sins remitted completely. The OT needed to be cancelled out to bring in the NT where all men's sins can be cleansed away by the blood of Christ.
Verse 17 categorically states "For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth." The language cannot be more plain and simple. Even wills/testaments today operate under this very same standard. Therefore the 'thief argument' is dead. I see you continue to look for ways around this, but there is no way to get around the simple words, meaning of Heb 9:16,17. You are removing it from its context for you are trying to find a way to get the thief saved under the NT without being baptized to satisfy your theological bias.
All OT saints were saved by grace through faith. They trusted in Gods righteousness and provision and that righteousness has been declared in Jesus Christ and he is the lamb slain. They had shadows of this but the reality took place in the broken spirit and humble and contrite heartIt is your position that in John 3 Jesus is speaking to Nicodemus how he can be saved under the old covenant?
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