Is war moral?

[freezerman2000]

My answer is still the same, and is based on YHWH'S Revelation in HIS WORD thru Y'SHUA:
This testimony from the video site merely affirms and confirms what YHWH says all along:

"The Ayrshire resident spoke of the futility of war, saying that both sides wanted to be winners, but "there are no winners in war".

Mr Forsyth told BBC Scotland's Lisa Summers: "We joined the army, boys of our age, we thought we were going to change the world - we didn't. It is still the same. We still have concentration camps, starvation, people looking for a safe home to bring up their youngsters. But selfishness and greed are still there.""

Things like that happen because some people refuse to learn from history,and they are doomed to repeat that history.
Not all nations do..
On the flip side,Japan is not aggressive anymore..they only have defensive units in place.They learned their lesson.Was the end of the Japanese Empire Moral or should the USA
and her allies kept a blind eye on the slaughter of the innocents?

 

[dogs4thewin]

Philosophically, I feel that it must be a question of, intent. What is the intent? For good, or, for evil? That will determine the ethical morality of the action. Personally, I can't see myself ever being involved in a carnal war. But if I bring the idea down to a personal level; suppose I see a man abusing a child, heeding none of my pleas to cease, about to kill the child, and I have a gun. Would I raise the gun and kill the man before he could further harm the child? I feel that I would. Would it be immoral for me to do so? I don't think it would be. I pray I'm never put into such a predicament. At best, war would be a last resort effort against those that would do harm to others.

But if we were to blanket all war as immoral, wouldn't this mean the Lord commanded immoral acts in the old testament?

After all, God commanded war in the old Testament.

 

[John Hyperspace]

I would like to add that I would never kill to defend my own self. I would have no problem with another person killing me without resistance. It's when someone else is in danger that I would be "put to the test"

 

[dogs4thewin]

I would like to add that I would never kill to defend my own self. I would have no problem with another person killing me without resistance. It's when someone else is in danger that I would be "put to the test"

I have no problem with that. I DO have a problem with people refusing to defend OTHERS when he or she can.

 

[Greg J.]

God is not blind to the realities of a world of fallen humans. He takes it into account in his commands. (He gave mankind one command, then due to sin it turned into more commands, and then even more, ...) God does not pull out just because sin has poisoned everything. He deals with reality as he can through his love. He even commanded people to commit acts of war. Even when everything is broken (which, by the way, is the state of things for all of us), there are still better and worse moral choices.

However, it should be obvious that war only exists because of sin. What God desires is for no one to sin. This is what God wants, but people are not doing what God wants.

your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. (bold mine, Matthew 6:10, 1984 NIV)

God's will in heaven:

He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.” (Revelation 21:4, 1984 NIV)

I'd advise strongly against praying for war when it appears to you to be the only possible solution. It is a way to give the devil a foothold in your heart. We are commanded:

“But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. (Luke 6:27-28, 1984 NIV)

Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. (bold mine, Romans 12:14, 1984 NIV)

Rather pray for God's love to enter enemies' hearts.

Remember that Jesus only died for sinners (Romans 3:23; also see 1 John 8, 10).

Btw, God's grace is available for people who are required to obey others, but he has not really made it plain what that grace will be for an individual on Judgment Day. It is very heart and situation dependent. Focus on doing the things that it takes to maintain a Godly heart. Even this can be done in wartime with God's help.

 

[freezerman2000]

Philosophically, I feel that it must be a question of, intent. What is the intent? For good, or, for evil? That will determine the ethical morality of the action. Personally, I can't see myself ever being involved in a carnal war. But if I bring the idea down to a personal level; suppose I see a man abusing a child, heeding none of my pleas to cease, about to kill the child, and I have a gun. Would I raise the gun and kill the man before he could further harm the child? I feel that I would. Would it be immoral for me to do so? I don't think it would be. I pray I'm never put into such a predicament. At best, war would be a last resort effort against those that would do harm to others.

But if we were to blanket all war as immoral, wouldn't this mean the Lord commanded immoral acts in the old testament?

Good question,but the first was about first person self defense or the defense of an individual..
The second was about war of the masses..which this thread is about..and it is an excellent point.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Was the end of the Japanese Empire Moral or should the USA
and her allies kept a blind eye on the slaughter of the innocents?

It (the end of an empire) was decided by YHWH, not by the USA.
YHWH raises up who HE WILL,
YHWH brings down who HE WILL, as HE PLEASES.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

So do you have an issue with people defending you?

YHWH is my strength and my salvation, in HIM DO I TRUST.

The people you might claim defended you are responsible for killing you and your family and your children in the united states,
unless YHWH in HIS GRACIOUS CHOICE protects you and your family and your children.

 

[freezerman2000]

God is not blind to the realities of a world of fallen humans. He takes it into account in his commands. (He gave mankind one command, then due to sin it turned into more commands, and then even more, ...) God does not pull out just because sin has poisoned everything. He deals with reality as he can through his love. He even commanded people to commit acts of war. Even when everything is broken (which, by the way, is the state of things for all of us), there are still better and worse moral choices.

However, it should be obvious that war only exists because of sin. What God desires is for no one to sin. This is what God wants, but people are not doing what God wants.

your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. (bold mine, Matthew 6:10, 1984 NIV)

God's will in heaven:

He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.” (Revelation 21:4, 1984 NIV)

I'd advise strongly against praying for war when it appears to you to be the only possible solution. It is a way to give the devil a foothold in your heart. We are commanded:

“But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. (Luke 6:27-28, 1984 NIV)

Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. (bold mine, Romans 12:14, 1984 NIV)

Rather pray for God's love to enter enemies' hearts.

Remember that Jesus only died for sinners (Romans 3:23; also see 1 John 8, 10).

Btw, God's grace is available for people who are required to obey others, but he has not really made it plain what that grace will be for an individual on Judgment Day. It is very heart and situation dependent. Focus on doing the things that it takes to maintain a Godly heart. Even this can be done in wartime with God's help.

Did God not ORDER the slaughter of ALL inhabitants of Jerico during a war?
I worship both the OT and NT God...I still can not reconcile the history of both.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

They were going to war to defend Christendom from the followers of Allah...and you say the were wrong for doing so in God's eye?

Their intentions were true,but their ensuing actions were atrocious..

You were lied to.

 

[freezerman2000]

It (the end of an empire) was decided by YHWH, not by the USA.
YHWH raises up who HE WILL,
YHWH brings down who HE WILL, as HE PLEASES.

So the USA and her allies were moral in the eyes of God?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I worship both the OT and NT God...I still can not reconcile the history of both.

GOOD POINT !!!!!!

You might never reconcile the history of both.
No worries - you don't have to.
Just be willing to believe and trust and rely on YHWH for everything, and let your life be a living sacrifice , once for all (never to be taken back) , to HIM.
HE WILL TAKE CARE OF EVERYTHING THEN.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

So the USA and her allies were moral in the eyes of God?

YHWH NEVER SAID THAT.

 

[freezerman2000]

You were lied to.

Quotes from the men who participated?Prove it ..without a Bible verse.

 

[freezerman2000]

It (the end of an empire) was decided by YHWH, not by the USA.
YHWH raises up who HE WILL,
YHWH brings down who HE WILL, as HE PLEASES.

You just said He did. So God is Militaristic..I don't understand your reasoning
So God tells we can wage wars..in the Bible?

 

[dogs4thewin]

YHWH is my strength and my salvation, in HIM DO I TRUST.

The people you might claim defended you are responsible for killing you and your family and your children in the united states,
unless YHWH in HIS GRACIOUS CHOICE protects you and your family and your children.

so does that mean that you can mad if someone saved you?

 

[John Hyperspace]

Good question,but the first was about first person self defense or the defense of an individual..
The second was about war of the masses..which this thread is about..and it is an excellent point.

I feel the same applies, from individual, through family, through nation. A national war would be moral or immoral through intent. If the war was to get resources from another people, it's immoral. If a war is to protect the helpless against lethal aggression it would be moral. Though, I would be remiss in not saying that even in national war there can be immorality in morality: meaning, if a man is in the armed forces simply, so he can legally kill, becomes involved in a moral war, his own intent for his involvment is immoral.

For a Christian, it seems to me this would be a matter of conscience to become involved in such a war. I can say that I would never become involved in a group war of that sort. The only time I would have to face such a decision would be when I was entirely and involuntarily placed in a predicament in which I was fastly comprehending that only the death of someone would cause a cessation of lethal hostility. I would have to find myself in a situation I did not seek, tried everything to avoid, but found no other option available but lethal force.

 

[Inkfingers]

This is an interview of a WW2 vet...
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-37829618

For everything there is a season, and a time for every matter under heaven:
a time to be born, and a time to die;
a time to plant, and a time to pluck up what is planted;
a time to kill, and a time to heal;
a time to break down, and a time to build up;
a time to weep, and a time to laugh;
a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
a time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together;
a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
a time to seek, and a time to lose;
a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
a time to tear, and a time to sew;
a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
a time to love, and a time to hate;
a time for war, and a time for peace.

 

[dogs4thewin]

I feel the same applies, from individual, through family, through nation. A national war would be moral or immoral through intent. If the war was to get resources from another people, it's immoral. If a war is to protect the helpless against lethal aggression it would be moral. Though, I would be remiss in not saying that even in national war there can be immorality in morality: meaning, if a man is in the armed forces simply, so he can legally kill, becomes involved in a moral war, his own intent for his involvment is immoral.

For a Christian, it seems to me this would be a matter of conscience to become involved in such a war. I can say that I would never become involved in a group war of that sort. The only time I would have to face such a decision would be when I was entirely and involuntarily placed in a predicament in which I was fastly comprehending that only the death of someone would cause a cessation of lethal hostility. I would have to find myself in a situation I did not seek, tried everything to avoid, but found no other option available but lethal force.

One thing to remember is that with no drift you cannot pick and choose which wars in which you would fight.

 

[dogs4thewin]

For everything there is a season, and a time for every matter under heaven:
a time to be born, and a time to die;
a time to plant, and a time to pluck up what is planted;
a time to kill, and a time to heal;
a time to break down, and a time to build up;
a time to weep, and a time to laugh;
a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
a time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together;
a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
a time to seek, and a time to lose;
a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
a time to tear, and a time to sew;
a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
a time to love, and a time to hate;
a time for war, and a time for peace.

The question is what is the time for war.