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Is War A Sin?

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MDulin

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FOR ALL YOU BUSH FANS. MAY GOD HAVE MERCY ON YOUR SOULS.



January 19, 2005
ODD HAPPENINGS IN FALLUJAH

by Dahr Jamail

"The soldiers are doing strange things in Fallujah," said one of my contacts in Fallujah who just returned. He was in his city checking on his home and just returned to Baghdad this evening.

Speaking on condition of anonymity, he continued, "In the center of the Julan Quarter they are removing entire homes which have been bombed, meanwhile most of the homes that were bombed are left as they were. Why are they doing this?"

According to him, this was also done in the Nazal, Mualmeen, Jubail, and Shuhada'a districts, and the military began to do this after Eid, which was after Nov. 20.

He told me he has watched the military use bulldozers to push the soil into piles and load it onto trucks to carry away. This was done in the Julan and Jimouriya quarters of the city, which is of course where the heaviest fighting occurred during the siege, as this was where resistance was the fiercest.

"At least two kilometers [1.2 mi.] of soil were removed," he explained. "Exactly as they did at Baghdad Airport after the heavy battles there during the invasion and the Americans used their special weapons."

He explained that in certain areas where the military used "special munitions," 200 square meters [2,150 sq. ft.] of soil was being removed from each blast site.

In addition, many of his friends have told him that the military brought in water-tanker trucks to power blast the streets, although he hadn't seen this himself.

"They went around to every house and have shot the water tanks," he continued. "As if they are trying to hide the evidence of chemical weapons in the water, but they only did this in some areas, such as Julan and in the souk [market] there as well."

He first saw this having been done after Dec. 20.

Again, this is reflective of stories I've been told by several refugees from Fallujah.

Just last December, a 35-year-old merchant from Fallujah, Abu Hammad, told me what he'd experienced when he was still in the city during the siege.

"The American warplanes came continuously through the night and bombed everywhere in Fallujah! It did not stop even for a moment! If the American forces did not find a target to bomb, they used sound bombs just to terrorize the people and children. The city stayed in fear; I cannot give a picture of how panicked everyone was."

"In the mornings I found Fallujah empty, as if nobody lives in it," he'd said. "Even poisonous gases have been used in Fallujah – they used everything – tanks, artillery, infantry, poison gas. Fallujah has been bombed to the ground. Nothing is left."

In Amiriyat al-Fallujah, a small city just outside Fallujah where many doctors from Fallujah have been practicing since they were unable to do so at Fallujah General Hospital, similar stories are being told.

Last month, one refugee who had just arrived at the hospital in the small city explained that he'd watched the military bring in water-tanker trucks to power-blast some of the streets in Fallujah.

"Why are they doing this?" asked Ahmed (name changed for his protection). "To beautify Fallujah? No! They are covering their tracks from the horrible weapons they used in my city."

Also last November, another Fallujah refugee from the Julan area, Abu Sabah told me, "They [U.S. military] used these weird bombs that put up smoke like a mushroom cloud. Then small pieces fell from the air with long tails of smoke behind them."

He explained that pieces of these bombs exploded into large fires that burned people's skin even when water was dumped on their bodies, which is the effect of phosphorous weapons, as well as napalm. "People suffered so much from these, both civilians and fighters alike," he said.

My friend Suthir [name changed to protect identity] was a member of one of the Iraqi Red Crescent relief convoys that was allowed into Fallujah at the end of November.

"I'm sure the Americans committed bad things there, but who can discover and say this?" she said when speaking of what she saw of the devastated city. "They didn't allow us to go to the Julan area or any of the others where there was heavy fighting, and I'm sure that is where the horrible things took place."

"The Americans didn't let us in the places where everyone said there was napalm used," she added. "Julan and those places where the heaviest fighting was, nobody is allowed to go there."

On Nov. 30, the U.S. military prevented an aid convoy from reaching Fallujah. This aid convoy was sent by the Iraqi Ministry of Health, but was told by soldiers at a checkpoint to return in "eight or nine days," reported AP.

Dr. Ibrahim al-Kubaisi, who was with the relief team, told reporters at that time, "There is a terrible crime going in Fallujah, and they do not want anybody to know."

With the military maintaining strict control over who enters Fallujah, the truth of what weapons were used remains difficult to find.

Meanwhile, people who lived in different districts of Fallujah continue to tell the same stories. Read more of Dahr Jamail's weblog
 

Heinrich

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Are you asking or saying?

Doesn't the bible say you must honour the King?
In your case I believe that means as a christian you must honour Bush because he is your president.
Secondly Did you notice that just about all the media over all the world made Bush out as the wrong choice to vote for.. still he won. So the Media failed.. how could that be?
I mean in history it has been proven again and again that one can control great population with the media (eg. Hitler)

btw Did you check some other things.. like what the standpoint of the candidates was around things like abortion and "moral" stuff like that... And what we as christians should think on these?
 
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ChristianMuse

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...and yet I see the Bush administration using great restraint on how they carry out the war effort. Napalm? Phosphorous? Depleted uranium shells? Possible tear gas? I think it good that those using those weapons are taking the time to clear away the rubble and traces so that those returning to the battle areas in the cities won't be affected from the remnants and scars of battle. Is that evidence of a cover-up or concern for the health of those who are returning to their homes? I believe it is the latter.

No smiley for this post...
 
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Shalia

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I'm pretty darn anti-Bush, but even I don't buy this complete story. Just like I never bought the stories that there were thousands of WMD's and we had to go blow them up. The truth is somewhere in the middle.

I was totally against this war, but now that we're THERE, all we can do is pray that it is over quickly, we suffer no more casualties, and that democracy takes hold there. Fighting against a war that's already started only hurts the troops overseas, and gives hope to those fighting against us. Don't spend your time condemning past actions that may or may not be true, spend your time in prayer that we finish up this business quickly and leave Iraq a better place than we found it.
 
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adamdavid

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I don't agree with this war. I don't agree with any war. I think its absolutely horrid that we're killing people. IMO, more violence isn't the way to stop the violence already going on.

That being said, I agree with Shalia - this story is exaggerated. Both sides are using an abundance of propaganda in an attempt to get people to see things their way.

I don't need it. All you have to tell me is that innocent people are being killed, and I'll say its wrong...
 
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Entertaining_Angels

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Asaph said:
What a horrible thing to say. incredible.

Asaph

You mean God was NOT sitting up there last November waving His 'Go Kerry' pom poms?

I am truly shocked. ;)

I don't let the sentiments get to me. Having served in the military and having a hubby coming up on his retirement from the Army, we don't let it sway us. We've heard far worse. Everybody is entitled to their opinion and our military helps ensure that EVERYBODY can share their opinion til their little hearts are content. I don't think they get the same emails we do with the photos that tell quite a different story than the ones the media gives us daily.

My old unit is divided up between Iraq and Afghanistan. We've known several people who were killed over there and just continue to pray. My husband is also on alert right now. God bless our troops and may God continue to grant me His peace when talking to people who have the freedom to express these sentiments.
 
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Entertaining_Angels

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MDulin said:
FOR ALL YOU BUSH FANS. MAY GOD HAVE MERCY ON YOUR SOULS.

Just thinking about this statement while folding laundry and it strikes me to say 'thank you'. I'll extend it even further and say that I hope He has mercy on the souls of those who voted for Kerry and, of course, those how voted for Badnarik. Oooh, and how about those who voted for (if they were able) for Nader? Can't leave them out. What about all the voters who selected the other third-party candidates? I think they could use some mercy at judgement time as well. And, as hard as it is for me to say it, may God have mercy on those who chose not to vote. And, heck, why limit this to Americans (how isolationist of me). May God have mercy on every person's soul. And while we are at it, let's thank Him for showing us mercy.

What a beautiful reminder, Ms Dulin, that we have an awesome God! :clap:

Thank you!
 
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Svt4Him

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OreGal said:
Just thinking about this statement while folding laundry and it strikes me to say 'thank you'. I'll extend it even further and say that I hope He has mercy on the souls of those who voted for Kerry and, of course, those how voted for Badnarik. Oooh, and how about those who voted for (if they were able) for Nader? Can't leave them out. What about all the voters who selected the other third-party candidates? I think they could use some mercy at judgement time as well. And, as hard as it is for me to say it, may God have mercy on those who chose not to vote. And, heck, why limit this to Americans (how isolationist of me). May God have mercy on every person's soul. And while we are at it, let's thank Him for showing us mercy.

What a beautiful reminder, Ms Dulin, that we have an awesome God! :clap:

Thank you!

:thumbsup:
 
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heartofheaven

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OreGal said:
You mean God was NOT sitting up there last November waving His 'Go Kerry' pom poms?

I am truly shocked. ;)

I don't let the sentiments get to me. Having served in the military and having a hubby coming up on his retirement from the Army, we don't let it sway us. We've heard far worse. Everybody is entitled to their opinion and our military helps ensure that EVERYBODY can share their opinion til their little hearts are content. I don't think they get the same emails we do with the photos that tell quite a different story than the ones the media gives us daily.

My old unit is divided up between Iraq and Afghanistan. We've known several people who were killed over there and just continue to pray. My husband is also on alert right now. God bless our troops and may God continue to grant me His peace when talking to people who have the freedom to express these sentiments.
My husband and I WILL be praying for you and your husband!I have heard from people that were Christians,that when they came back here for a time,all they could talk about was getting back over there to help! They were exhausted,yes, but they were also needed and were fighting for a just cause,for a people that are in desperate need of a 'savior" that we allready can have because of our freedom.they also need freedom,even though who can say they are for war????? Who in their right mind would be?? It is a hell that no one should go through,but have no other choice....God Bless those who have to GO........and yes God will have mercy.because mercy begets mercy..............lets pray "and not defeat the purpose of 'going' and be on the "RIGHT" side ,and not "LEFT"!
 
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Entertaining_Angels

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heartofheaven said:
My husband and I WILL be praying for you and your husband!I have heard from people that were Christians,that when they came back here for a time,all they could talk about was getting back over there to help!

Thank you so much. It is truly amazing how God is able to work though some of the troops there. It is so true though, because of my time in the military and seeing how most of the world really lives, I have a strong desire to live and work overseas in a developing nation. We'll also be adopting internationally for the same reasons. It's all in His timing.
 
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adamdavid

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OreGal said:
Everybody is entitled to their opinion and our military helps ensure that EVERYBODY can share their opinion til their little hearts are content.
Everybody except the people they kill... :sigh: :(

Sorry, pacifist convictions showing again (I just got done writing an essay about it for class, so at the moment "Killing is wrong" is going over in my head more than usual...)

~AD
 
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Asaph

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adamdavid said:
Everybody except the people they kill... :sigh: :(

Sorry, pacifist convictions showing again (I just got done writing an essay about it for class, so at the moment "Killing is wrong" is going over in my head more than usual...)

~AD

AD, what if nobody had been willing to kill to stop Hitler? Do you really think that would have been more Godly?

Besides, my bible doesn't say anything about not killing, it says not to murder and those are two different things.

I'm not a warmonger either, but ...

Asaph
 
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Shalia

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adamdavid said:
Everybody except the people they kill... :sigh: :(

Sorry, pacifist convictions showing again (I just got done writing an essay about it for class, so at the moment "Killing is wrong" is going over in my head more than usual...)

~AD
So, then, God was wrong in all the cases in the OT where He told the Israelites to go in and conquer entire nations, and kill everyone?

Or are there cases <like Hitler> where the ends justify the means?
 
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Entertaining_Angels

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Shalia said:
So, then, God was wrong in all the cases in the OT where He told the Israelites to go in and conquer entire nations, and kill everyone?

Or are there cases <like Hitler> where the ends justify the means?

Already know from experience, there is just no arguing here. The only way to change hearts and minds is to let them see what life was actually like in that country before the war.

Ah well, God's working on me, a couple years ago I would have had quite a bit to say :clap:
 
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Andry

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Not meaning to hijack this thread, and at the risk of digressing somewhat....

Part of the reason I enjoy LOTR and Tolkien so much is that he portrays throughout the book the risks, perils, and evils of war - and that there are some things worth fighting - and dying - for.

Tolkien took much of his experiences from WWI - which would seem from the trenches that the world could end, into the book. He thought WWI was a senseless war; futile, and ultimately needless. But he thought WWII was a war you needed to fight, that it was worth fighting for.

So while we may stand on our soapbox pulpits and criticize from our personal conviction and beliefs about which war is right or wrong, or all war is wrong period, I find that many believers in their own personal lives often fight the wrong battles, protect the wrong issues, and build the wrong kingdom.

Now back to the thread....
 
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adamdavid

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Asaph said:
AD, what if nobody had been willing to kill to stop Hitler? Do you really think that would have been more Godly?

Besides, my bible doesn't say anything about not killing, it says not to murder and those are two different things.

I'm not a warmonger either, but ...

Asaph
I know... there are times when its necessary, but I still don't like it. (and Hitler took care of it himself...) My real problem isn't as much in taking out the villians - getting rid of the world's "hitlers" is certainly necessary. My problem is that in the process of killing one, we manage to kill thousands of innocents. IMO, the killing of innocents is in no way Godly.

I know the bible speaks out against murder, not killing, but any time innocent people are killed to get to the guilty, murder is happening. Maybe the intention is 'good', but I can't make myself accept as okay the act itself.
 
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adamdavid

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Shalia said:
So, then, God was wrong in all the cases in the OT where He told the Israelites to go in and conquer entire nations, and kill everyone?
In all honesty, there are times I think He may have been. I'm not in any way trying to be sacreligious and say that my logic is above God's, and I realize He was indeed in the right, but my finite little mind has trouble with it anyways.

But I can draw a line there. God's judgement is divine and soverign. If He said it was right, it must be. I can't say the same for any human, however. When people make the decision that we can kill others, I have a harder time respecting that decision.

blessings...
~AD
 
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