Is Venus' Atmosphere better for our colonizing efforts than Mars?

[Radrook]

We are all familiar on how hostile the Venusian surface is to human life and we cerrtainly don't expect direct exploration of the surface by machines nor man. However, there is an a very feasible alternative. The Venusian atmosphere above its acidic clouds has a region with an Earth-like temperatures and is amenable to colonization. An area from which we could set up floating installations to observe and study the planet below and expore it in relative safety. I would like to hear your thoughts on this subject and your predictions on its feasibility and when it will likely happen.


NASA wants to build a floating city above the clouds of Venus

The colonization of Venus has been a subject of many works of science fiction since before the dawn of spaceflight, and is still discussed from both a fictional and a scientific standpoint. However, with the discovery of Venus's extremely hostile surface environment, attention has largely shifted towards the colonization of the Moon and Mars instead, with proposals for Venus focused on colonies floating in the upper-middle atmosphere and on terraforming.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonization_of_Venus[/quote]




Questions for discussion:

What methods for terraforming Venus are best?

Is it Easier to colonize the Venusian atmosphere or the Martyian surface?

 

[Tallguy88]

I think the biggest obstacle would be creating a system that can maintain altitude and not consume enormous amounts of energy/fuel in the process. Levitation with magnets is theoretically possible, but the problem would be preventing the magnets on the ground from melting due to the extreme surface temperatures of Venus.

 

[Greg J.]

Where would a person like to be when the power goes out?

In glass sphere above Venus surrounded by sulfuric acid on a countdown to crashing into the 800° surface with an unbreathable air pressure 6 x that of earth, or

On mars in a half bubble of plastic where a power outage means I need to put a sweater on and fix the problem before getting low on oxygen.

(Alternatively: Wait on earth where it's only a matter of time until we have a surface like Venus'.)

 

[Na Nach Oi!]

I often wonder why Mars One participants want to choose isolated life living in a dry and dead place.

 

[Radrook]

Where would a person like to be when the power goes out?

In glass sphere above Venus surrounded by sulfuric acid on a countdown to crashing into the 800° surface with an unbreathable air pressure 6 x that of earth, or

On mars in a half bubble of plastic where a power outage means I need to put a sweater on and fix the problem before getting low on oxygen.

(Alternatively: Wait on earth where it's only a matter of time until we have a surface like Venus'.)

That is some hackles-raising scenario you proposed there! Lights go out, panic sets in, and down we plummet into sulfuric acid clouds below while kicking and screaming and only to be roasted alive if we survive that terrifying transition. Meanwhile those on Mars are setting up picnic tables on top of Olympus Mons, snapping pictures and taking in the scenery while happily soaking up the death-dealing radiation .


BTW


The plans are not to use glass spheres, please check out the brief video. The proposal is to use inflatable vehicles which float at a predetermined elevation of approx 50 kilometers (31 mi above he Venusian clouds where wind velocities reach 224 mph (360 kph). There above those clouds temperatures are Earthlike, turbulence is minimal and wind speed of approx 90 mph is tolerable-especially if the habitats or floating cities are allowed to flow with it.

No bulky, hard to move about in pressurized spacesuits needed to make external maintenance or repairs since pressure outside would also be earthlike. Also, no danger of radiation since the atmospheric density protection would be similar to Earth's while on the Martian surface being outside for too long proves deadly.

About accidents, any tear in the habitat would not cause explosive decompression but a slow oozing. Also, NASA always uses redundancies to increase safety in such missions so that if an accident occurs there is always a viable way out.

At cloud-top level, Venus is the paradise planet.”
Colonization of Venus - Wikipedia

 

[Greg J.]

Yeah, I don't claim to know what I'm talking about. I only said glass spheres because sulphuric acid is so unfriendly to so many materials (I don't know exactly which ones, but assumed metals and plastics).

 

[Radrook]

I think the biggest obstacle would be creating a system that can maintain altitude and not consume enormous amounts of energy/fuel in the process. Levitation with magnets is theoretically possible, but the problem would be preventing the magnets on the ground from melting due to the extreme surface temperatures of Venus.

The vehicles would maintain altitude by themselves just as weather balloons and zeppelins do on Earth.
Inflatable aircraft could cruise Venus skies

 

[Radrook]

Yeah, I don't claim to know what I'm talking about. I only said glass spheres because sulphuric acid is so unfriendly to so many materials (I don't know exactly which ones, but assumed metals and plastics).

Yes, those sulfuric clouds can be deadly. That is why they are planning to stay safely above them. Please notice that the brief video I provided says ABOVE the clouds of Venus.

 

[Tallguy88]

The vehicles would maintain altitude by themselves just as weather balloons and zeppelins do on Earth.
Inflatable aircraft could cruise Venus skies

It said that was for in initial exploration and that the permanent settlements would be fixed in place, but it didn't say how (unless I missed it).

 

[Radrook]

It said that was for in initial exploration and that the permanent settlements would be fixed in place, but it didn't say how (unless I missed it).

Well, according to this source being untethered is the more reasonable option.

At the top of the clouds the wind speed on Venus reaches up to 95 m/s (340 km/h; 210 mph), circling the planet approximately every four Earth days in a phenomenon known as "super-rotation".[7] Colonies floating in this region could therefore have a much shorter day length by remaining untethered to the ground and moving with the atmosphere, compared to the usual 243 Earth days it takes for the planet to rotate. Allowing a colony to move freely would also reduce structural stress from the wind.

Colonization of Venus - Wikipedia

BTW
The trip to Venus is much shorter than the trip to Mars as well. That's another benefit.

 

[Radrook]

I often wonder why Mars One participants want to choose isolated life living in a dry and dead place.

Well, human motivaton can be based on many factors:

1. Curiosity
2. A desperate psychological need for isolation
3. A suicidal death wish
4. A strong desire for fame
5. Misanthrope hatred of or aversion to mankind

Or perhaps a combination of all these in varying degrees of intensities.

The quaint thing about the proposed mission where volunteers are the norm is that it is a one-way trip.
In short, they are agreeing never to return. They are willing to die on Mars and be buried there. It is hard not to view such a mentality as abnormal. Especially when the quality of life on Mars will be mostly restricted to staying indoors due to the radiation hazard on the surface.

 

[Larniavc]

We are all familiar on how hostile the Venusian surface is to human life and we cerrtainly don't expect direct exploration of the surface by machines nor man. However, there is an a very feasible alternative. The Venusian atmosphere above its acidic clouds has a region with an Earth-like temperatures and is amenable to colonization. An area from which we could set up floating installations to observe and study the planet below and expore it in relative safety. I would like to hear your thoughts on this subject and your predictions on its feasibility and when it will likely happen.


NASA wants to build a floating city above the clouds of Venus

The engineering and energy manipulation expertise required precludes a current effective atmospheric colony solution.

 

[Larniavc]

Also, no danger of radiation since the atmospheric density protection would be similar to Earth's while on the Martian surface being outside for too long proves deadly.

It's the magnetic field that stops the cosmic rays and Venus is closer to Sol than Earth is.

 

[Radrook]

It's the magnetic field that stops the cosmic rays and Venus is closer to Sol than Earth is.

Please note that Earth’s magnetosphere is generated in its core and manages to INTERCEPT the solar wind. In contrast, Venus’s extremely weak magnetosphere is generated by the solar wind’s DIRECT impact AGAINST the planet’s upper atmosphere and offers no protection.

In 1967, Venera 4 found Venus's magnetic field to be much weaker than that of Earth. This magnetic field is induced by an interaction between the ionosphere and the solar wind, rather than by an internal dynamo as in the Earth's core. Venus's small induced magnetosphere provides negligible protection to the atmosphere against cosmic radiation .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus

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Notice the big difference between?

Artist’s impression showing how the solar wind shapes the magnetospheres of Venus (shown with a brown tail, closer to the Sun) and Earth (shown in blue). Both planets are roughly the same size. Venus is closer to the Sun, at roughly 0.7 AU (Astronomical Unit) while Earth is located at 1 AU. Unlike Venus, Earth has an internal magnetic field which makes its magnetosphere bigger. The lines coming out of the Sun symbolise the propagation direction of the solar wind. Credit: ESA - See more at: http://www.astrobio.net/also-in-news/a-magnetic-surprise-from-venus/#sthash.as9DCR1J.dpuf



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BTW
I am aware that Venus is closer to the Sun than our Earth is.

 

[Larniavc]

Please note that Earth’s atmosphere is generated in its core and manages to INTERCEPT the solar wind. In contrast, Venus’s extremely weak magnetosphere is generated by the solar wind’s DIRECT impact AGAINST the planet’s upper atmosphere and offers no protection.

.

Notice the big difference between?

Artist’s impression showing how the solar wind shapes the magnetospheres of Venus (shown with a brown tail, closer to the Sun) and Earth (shown in blue). Both planets are roughly the same size. Venus is closer to the Sun, at roughly 0.7 AU (Astronomical Unit) while Earth is located at 1 AU. Unlike Venus, Earth has an internal magnetic field which makes its magnetosphere bigger. The lines coming out of the Sun symbolise the propagation direction of the solar wind. Credit: ESA - See more at: http://www.astrobio.net/also-in-news/a-magnetic-surprise-from-venus/#sthash.as9DCR1J.dpuf



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BTW
I am aware that Venus is closer to the Sun than our Earth is.

My point still stands.

 

[Radrook]

My point still stands.

With no legs?

 

[Radrook]

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What is the best method of terraforming Venus?