Is transgender a lie?

I wouldnt be doing much more then you all are doing.

I've been an alocholic forever now; I really dont have a right to tell anybody anything. In fact, I might be gone tonight..

Skybringr said:

Thanks to liberals, I wouldn't get a heart transplant either way

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Transplant lists are partisan now? You seem to be using ""liberal" as a general purpose epithet. Could you maybe define what you mean by the term? I'mm pretty confused as to why you think liberals would stop you getting a transplant?

HIV in no way equates with just being openly gay. Infection in the gay community occurs among a minority that live a very dangerous lifestyle due to self-hatred (It's not just "lust"). If you were told you were abnormal or disgusting, beaten as a youth for something you cannot change, thrown out of your house, told you were going to Hell and that God hates you... you might not particularly care about taking care of your health either, at least unconsciously you'ld have a very strong death wish.
Many straight people just cannot comprehend the amount of self-hatred that gays in general struggle with as a legacy of homophobia.

Skybringr said:

I said that coerced opinion and speculation doesn't matter.

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You also said education and experience didn't matter :

Skybringr said:

You all keep falling back on this 'years of education/medical science/etc etc' as if it's supposed to mean something.

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I can understand why you'd want to pretend that you never said this given you are also appealing to your expert with training and experience in the field. But continually contradicting yourself isn't going to convince anyone you have anything productive to add to the discussion.

cutekittycat said:

so we do not use surgery to fix people, then?

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Everyone playing the mutilation is bad angle seems to be avoiding this question. Must be dumb luck that all of them missed the question, since I'm sure they have a consistent, well thought out evidence based response.

Autumnleaf said:

I'm thinking of two gay guys I know where were married and had kids and got divorced and had gay sex and got AIDS and are dying. They are great guys and their families are devastated. Not so long ago they would not have had the option of running off and doing what they did, but in these enlightened times it seems like society is permissive of people engaging in behavior that can get them killed. Should this be as it is or is it time to put some things back in the closet in the interest of saving lives?

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Seems this scenario could have happened to any random straight couple as well. I guess lesbian couples are statistically much less likely to contract AIDS, so maybe we only allow them to get married?

KCfromNC said:

Everyone playing the mutilation is bad angle seems to be avoiding this question. Must be dumb luck that all of them missed the question, since I'm sure they have a consistent, well thought out evidence based response.

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pffft....

did i miss the memo? what evidence-based response?

Autumnleaf said:

What about people who think the are Jesus Christ or John Lennon? Are they just Jesus Christ and John Lennon?

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Are they? Assess them. Look at what they do.
Jesus did say that he is the Messiah and no body believed Him.

I am surprised that it took this long for the napoleon / unicorn argument to pop-up.

looks like most posts think it is easy to just walk in to a surgeon and say "i want to be a woman" (or a man) and they can go under the knife.

actually, while science studies is leaning towards in favor of the existence of teh trans, it is still quite difficult for anyone to go through the process because there is still this old thinking of "what if you are wrong" or "what if you regret it". stemming from, at least from my understand, of transitioning is a choice. well, i guess the proccess is a choice but the whole psychology and mind of a trans-person is still very real.

what i am saying is that if someone thinks that they are so-and-so (or, if you want to claim that you are napoleon, or a unicorn). if you TRUELY think that and it PAINS you to have the idea of not being able to be, you CANNOT live another minute without being - which is sort of true for a lot of MTFs and FTMs..
go and get assessed. go through the hoops which was set up. get diagnosed, start the process of transitioning.

play guitar, marry a japanese named yoko, speak french, learn strategy, turn water to wine, walk on water, fart rainbows, strap a horn to your head.... people do surgeries all the time to correct something.

it is a way to do it now. there will be newer ways in the future. just like there were other ways to deal with trans or gay people. they were given (male and MTFs, for example) testosterone; it did not work. made it worse. maybe in the future, there will be like a uterus and vagina transplant or something. i donno.

There is something called truth that it seems like people these days are willing to waffle on. It used to be people would say, "Look, you are a guy so stop playing with makeup and come with us and play horse shoes."

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or, you can tell them, but still leave them be to their liking. not all boys like cars and girl like dolls. it is a wonderful playground out there...

These days I think parents don't parent. Probably because the father is not in the home as often. So we get children raising themselves to be whatever they think is pretty and they end up in bad places because nobody cared enough to teach them that life is hard enough when you go about it the right way, its even harder when you go about it not the right way.

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what is the "right" way? God's way? sure, i am all for that, who gets to decide what is God's way then?

it is called experience. we should only nudge them to a direction, but ultimately, they have to walk their own road. the children are not copies of us. version 2.0.

The fanciful idea that someone can get a sex change operation and live happily ever after they find someone who will pretend they are really what they try to look like is wrong on so many levels.

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why?
these people are finally true to themselves, actually.
most who transitioned did become happier. why is that wrong?

Its lying to themselves and to society and people wonder why such people have a hard time. In a nut shell, 'They're doing it wrong.'

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what is the wrong that they are doing?

Skybringr said:

Women are the deceivers of men.

If you truly understood the story; why men have preeminence.. you just need to think long and hard_

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At least you believe in equality - I see the same hatred for women as you have for homosexuals.

Autumnleaf said:

What about people who think the are Jesus Christ or John Lennon? Are they just Jesus Christ and John Lennon?

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Why does the argument always turn into "if this were a completely different situation, you would think something different?"

There is something called truth that it seems like people these days are willing to waffle on.

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There is something called truth in reality that you don't seem particularly concerned with. All you care about is what you want to believe.

The fanciful idea that someone can get a sex change operation and live happily ever after they find someone who will pretend they are really what they try to look like is wrong on so many levels.

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Do you hate the fact so much that it does work out for some people? And that there is no pretending involved?

Its lying to themselves and to society and people wonder why such people have a hard time. In a nut shell, 'They're doing it wrong.'

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No, it is plainly apparent why we have such a hard time. Here's a hint, that acceptance you think that we have that doesn't really exist.

Anyone who thinks that a person just turns up and asks for a sex change operation and the doctor says "okay, how about next week?" is extremely unaware of how it works. It's simply not like that.

IMO, a person who is that convinced that they were born the wrong gender, that they are distressed and/or depressed about their gender, and consistently over time express a desire to change their gender - knowing the cost physically (gender reassignment is not for the faint of heart), financially, emotionally, psychologically - should be helped, not hindered or mocked or abused.

I find it pitiful that Christians seem to keep on looking for the next 'class' of people they can hate and revile. It's so saddening. Why aren't we out doing God's word instead of sitting around on the internet pointing fingers at what everyone else is doing 'wrong'? ISTM that God's people need to get out in the world a little more and actually interact with and try to find understanding of other people, and show a little of that, you know, Christian LOVE that God suggests they show to others.

I find CF increasingly depressing, and I find this version of Christianity incredibly self-defeating.

Hetta said:

Anyone who thinks that a person just turns up and asks for a sex change operation and the doctor says "okay, how about next week?" is extremely unaware of how it works. It's simply not like that.

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interestingly enough, though (how it can be twisted to), since it is not this easy to get an operation. perhaps it is God's way of saying "No".

IMO, a person who is that convinced that they were born the wrong gender, that they are distressed and/or depressed about their gender, and consistently over time express a desire to change their gender - knowing the cost physically (gender reassignment is not for the faint of heart), financially, emotionally, psychologically - should be helped, not hindered or mocked or abused.

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there is help.

go pray and sin no more..... yes?

I find it pitiful that Christians seem to keep on looking for the next 'class' of people they can hate and revile. It's so saddening. Why aren't we out doing God's word instead of sitting around on the internet pointing fingers at what everyone else is doing 'wrong'?

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how else can they do it? interweb is best soapbox..

ISTM that God's people need to get out in the world a little more and actually interact with and try to find understanding of other people, and show a little of that, you know, Christian LOVE that God suggests they show to others.

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only if you are Christian (TM) and believe and agree.

none of these new-age bullsh*t.

Cute Tink said:

Do you hate the fact so much that it does work out for some people? And that there is no pretending involved?

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it can be difficult to gauge just by hearing from someone saying so. it is their words against our ears. i mean, of course you are happier. even if you are not, you will not say it because it only proves them right, yes?



just like if someone say they are followers of Whoever-out-there..... we take their word for it. there is no proof for love... (reference from that scene in "Contact")

though, i guess most tend to forget the fact that trans-people are people too. after transition, life goes on.... there are other stumbling blocks and obstacles to face just like any "other" people (weird saying that way.. not mean to exclude).

cutekittycat said:

interestingly enough, though (how it can be twisted to), since it is not this easy to get an operation. perhaps it is God's way of saying "No".

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I think you'll find that it's a limitation set by the medical profession.

Hetta said:

I think you'll find that it's a limitation set by the medical profession.

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i know..i know... under God's influence, correct? God's intervention. God using these people to gatekeep.


the limitations.... they were set up way way back to keep people away; diffiicult enough that most will fail; long enough that most will give up.
they were also afraid at one time...

there is help.

go pray and sin no more..... yes?

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I don't consider it sinning. Maybe that's just me.

I don't quite understand where you are coming from. It's hard for me to see whether you are being sarcastic or upholding these beliefs.

cutekittycat said:

i know..i know... under God's influence, correct? God's intervention. God using these people to gatekeep.

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Not imo.

the limitations.... they were set up way way back to keep people away; diffiicult enough that most will fail; long enough that most will give up.
they were also afraid at one time...

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I like to think that they are ensuring that people are really sure about what they wish to do, that they understand the massive changes they will undertake, that it's not reversible. TBH, the idea of changing my gender horrifies me, but that's because I'm happy with what/who I am. I also don't like needles or surgery. I can only feel a sense of wonder at those who go through these surgeries, what they face, and what they dare.

But I'm sure that control is a massive part of it. And also fear.

Skybringr said:

I wouldnt be doing much more then you all are doing.

I've been an alocholic forever now; I really dont have a right to tell anybody anything. In fact, I might be gone tonight..

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I'm sorry to hear that you are struggling with alcoholism. I wish you the best of luck in your life

Hetta said:

I don't consider it sinning. Maybe that's just me.

I don't quite understand where you are coming from. It's hard for me to see whether you are being sarcastic or upholding these beliefs.

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Cat doesn't sincerely hold those beliefs

Hetta said:

Not imo.

I like to think that they are ensuring that people are really sure about what they wish to do, that they understand the massive changes they will undertake,

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that is exactly what they are doing. it is for these people to be absolutely sure.

though, sometimes personal judgement tend to get into place even for medical professionals. thus, gatekeeping is a bit dangerous sometimes, as far as i understand it. there are a lot of processionals that will keep people away from transitioning.

... that it's not reversible....

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there are reversal surgeries, but the process is tedious.
it is unfortunate that some people will be doing this. does not go well with the whole trans is real resume, but again, people tend to forget that there are other aspects of life that needs to be dealt with once transition is over.

that is not to say that they should not transition, but, i will say that it is not the ultimate cure for all... not yet.

TBH, the idea of changing my gender horrifies me, but that's because I'm happy with what/who I am. I also don't like needles or surgery. I can only feel a sense of wonder at those who go through these surgeries, what they face, and what they dare.
But I'm sure that control is a massive part of it. And also fear.

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it is indeed a hard concept to grasp without having to be 'in their shoes'.... to feel something is wrong body or mind (not to mean it like it is an mental issue...)

Hetta said:

I don't consider it sinning. Maybe that's just me.

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neither do i.

neither do i.

I don't quite understand where you are coming from. It's hard for me to see whether you are being sarcastic or upholding these beliefs.

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i am not a fan of smilies... sorry...

Cute Tink said:

Cat doesn't sincerely hold those beliefs

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what she said.

Autumnleaf said:

I know people from Africa whose people were raped and murdered and tortured during genocide wars. They don't get together every November and hold hands and cry about it. They don't kill themselves more often than other people. They thank God they are alive and in the good old US of A.

I'll leave you to your pity party.

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It is no pity party. It is a yearly reminder of the attitudes in this country.

Are you afraid to face what your attitude does in the minds of other people?

You see, that's just it. Regardless of your actions, your attitude seems essentially identical to those who DO commit all those hateful crimes. And spreading your attitude does not do anything to prevent more crimes. It actually encourages more crimes.

You can disagree without being negative.