Is transgender a form of defiance?

[MehGuy]

Even a 10 year old gets it, lol...

 

[Level 4 Akuma]

Even a 10 year old gets it, lol...

Gee thanks Mister

 

[Level 4 Akuma]

I really like this video from a christian mother about her transgender child

Debi Jackson, Mother Of Transgender Child, Gives Moving Speech

 

[Cute Tink]

It is an effort to find or make peace within one's self.

One sentence. Simple but accurate.

 

[Level 4 Akuma]

One sentence. Simple but accurate.

I have a friend who hates to look in the mirror because it makes her feel horrible seeing a boy there. Shes not happy and shes my friend

 

[rich1540]

Not comfortable around men. In my experience, men are always competeing and my lack of competition makes men think less of me. My lack of caring about perceived slights seem to make men think less of me.

I am transitioning to female. I have been on hormones for well over a year and am getting ready to get my gender marker on my driver's liscence changed to female.

I feel much like you. Ive never been comfortable with men's pack mentality. It is if I'm a cat and they're dogs. I wouldnt want to be a woman though as i really enjoy the practicality of being male and I'm atteacted sexually to women. I really like women's clothing, not that im a cross dresser. I just like women's fashion. The few friends i have in various places are women apart from some Muslim guys. (these guys are just so friendly) and two transexuals. I get on really well with my two ladyboy friends because sex was out of the equation. They were incredibly needy though. I suspect it is because they do suffer a lot of discrimation and are lonely. They can be quite nasty to each other though which I'd put down to the unhappiness of the rejection they face.

What is great about trusting in Jesus is that i can enjoy the company of my friends without the big black dog of lust barking at the fence. Women seem to have a 6th sense of a mans lust so they feel more comfortable and repected as people- not an object of lust. I do worry about them falling for me now and hurting them when i leave, after all what is there not to a like- a straight guy who likes shopping for clothes with them. Haha

Congratulations on your new gender GenetoJean. I hope your new gender fits you like an old shoe.

 

[Cute Tink]

I have a friend who hates to look in the mirror because it makes her feel horrible seeing a boy there. Shes not happy and shes my friend

I'm sorry to hear that. I know how she feels and I hope she finds peace one day.

 

[MehGuy]

Gee thanks Mister

And such manners too!

 

[StephanieSomer]

I have trouble understanding such things.

I agree. You do.

 

[StephanieSomer]

Are they successful?

Long-term follow-up of transsexual persons undergoi... [PLoS One. 2011] - PubMed - NCBI

"RESULTS: The overall mortality for sex-reassigned persons was higher during follow-up (aHR 2.8; 95% CI 1.8-4.3) than for controls of the same birth sex, particularly death from suicide (aHR 19.1; 95% CI 5.8-62.9). Sex-reassigned persons also had an increased risk for suicide attempts (aHR 4.9; 95% CI 2.9-8.5) and psychiatric inpatient care (aHR 2.8; 95% CI 2.0-3.9). Comparisons with controls matched on reassigned sex yielded similar results. Female-to-males, but not male-to-females, had a higher risk for criminal convictions than their respective birth sex controls."

That compares post-surgical individuals with the general population. Since post-surgical individuals bear the brunt of societal indifference and rejection, their higher rates of suicide from the general population are quite understandable. And the attitudes you are representing are a continuation of those societal burdens. (And to think you even consider your position to be from Scripture!)

What you SHOULD be comparing is the morbidity of post-surgical individuals with the morbidity of pre-surgical individuals. In other words, are they better off or worse off than they WERE for having transitioned?

Your "report" is misleading.

 

[StephanieSomer]

I got frustrated with my aunt talking about these feelings a while back when I was first talking openly about my gender dysphoria.

I tried the "I just feel like a boy" thing. She asked me if I wanted to be a "trailblazer" (???) and I said no. So she asked me if I wanted to be a doctor or do manual labor, and I said no. Clearly these were "men" things in her mind. I don't like going outside very much, I don't do heavy lifting (I can't really, low muscle tone), etc. So she kept asking me why I "felt like" a boy if I didn't want to "be one" (aka conform to male gender roles as she saw them).

To be honest, I don't do a lot of "girl" things either. I don't shave or wear makeup, I hate 99% of female styled clothes and shoes and wear men's clothing because it's so much more practical. But the point is I couldn't get through to her what the feeling really was because it's hard to describe to people who have never felt it.

Much like trying to define "red" to a person born blind.

 

[StephanieSomer]

Cute Tink, well, I don't have transgender issues, so this is just my honest opinion and conviction.. So to answer your question.. yes, I do believe it may be possible. I am 100% positive God doesn't make gender mistakes. He formed us with such care, intent, love and purpose... He doesn't make mistakes.. EVER. and NEVER ..

Babies born with no brain. Babies born with no arms. Babies born with 3 arms. Babies born with cleft palates...... I could go on. So, I guess you believe that God never ever makes gender mistakes. Just lots of OTHER mistakes? (shakes head)

God made no mistakes in creating me transsexual. It was a special blessing to me which He provided just for me. Most people don't ever experience life the way I do. I have a perspective they not only don't have, they can't even comprehend it! Much less appreciate it.

Yes, He formed me with such care, intent, love, and purpose. What a shame that you are incapable of comprehending the wonderful purposes He has for me and the provisions He granted through my transsexualism.

 

[StephanieSomer]

I don't believe that transgenderism is a form of defiance, at least not in the majority of cases. I believe it is a case of mental illness or at least disordered thinking which causes a person to believe that they were born with the wrong gender. I believe that such people need to go to therapy where they can get help to be comfortable with the gender they were born as. I believe that hormone therapy and sex change surgeries are gravely immoral.

I am certainly glad that you are not treating people with this condition! Because there's not a single shred of clinical evidence to support, or even suggest, that your position is valid and truthful.

Can you offer a single Scriptural defense of your assertion of the immorality of transition?

 

[StephanieSomer]

I just want to offer a bit of history on the subject. Treating gender dysphoria with hormones and surgery is relatively new. The proper treatment before now was just therapy and it didn't work. People didn't just become comfortable with their birth sex because, as the medical community now agrees, there is more to who you are than what grows between your legs.

I don't take a stance on the morality of seeking congruence between the body and the person, but if the medical community by way of all of the major medical associations in the US (let alone the world) concur that gender dysphoria is a medical condition that is best treated by hormone therapy and surgery (as determined on an individual basis), does that not indicate that there is more to it than just "mental illness" or "disordered thinking"?

Actually, there were other forms of treatments attempted. A common treatment up through the 70's and even into the early 80's was shock therapy. I have read documentation of dozens of children who died as a result of seizures brought on through their "treatments". Many who did survive the ordeal were left severely debilitated. I have also read of lobotomies being tried as a treatment.

 

[StephanieSomer]

Yes, willful transgender lifestyle is wrong and a perversion in Gods eyes.

People aren't born that way ; God doesn't make mistakes and he doesn't approve of such perverted sexual lifestyles since he destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah for the reasons of sexual perversion . God has a better plan for such a person and with the right help, and Gods power working in the persons life , coupled with the person wanting to admit they are wrong and wanting victory....many have overcome this kind of addiction. The problem is like any other sin , people find it too comforting to change and they can easily gather round them loads of people who will cheer them on . Thus, they become more and more addicted leading to severe consequences with STD's for this life and loss of eternal life for the next phase of their life.

Based on what Scripture? What "perversion" are you accusing me of?

BTW, elsewhere in the Scriptures God gives His reasons for the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, (Ez 16:44-52). And He mentioned nothing about sexual practices.

 

[StephanieSomer]

I'm curious about this. You cite to these quotes and I assume that you take "inward parts" as our body parts. Interestingly, it doesn't also say "outward parts". Could that mean, rather than sorting the particulars of our bodies, but rather the particulars of our souls/spirits?

I don't see this as a conclusive statement that God makes each of us as we expect things to be.

My thoughts exactly!

 

[StephanieSomer]

The Lord rebuke you.

I just HAD to laugh out loud!!!

 

[StephanieSomer]

[FONT=Arial Narrow","sans-serif]Originally Posted by melody123[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial Narrow","sans-serif]In the Bible, I feel that it says that sex is designated individually and specifically with God’s foreknowledge.. He says , “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you (Jeremiah 1: 5),” “For you formed my inward parts; you covered me in my mother’s womb. I will praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made (Ps. 139: 13–14).”[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial Narrow","sans-serif]Cutetink: I'm curious about this. You cite to these quotes and I assume that you take "inward parts" as our body parts. Interestingly, it doesn't also say "outward parts". Could that mean, rather than sorting the particulars of our bodies, but rather the particulars of our souls/spirits?[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial Narrow","sans-serif]I don't see this as a conclusive statement that God makes each of us as we expect things to be[/FONT][FONT=Arial Narrow","sans-serif].[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial Narrow","sans-serif]Hi. [/FONT]OK. To me this verse means God made us and intimately knew us as a whole, in every which possible way, inside, outside , spirit, soul and body.


My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place. . . . your eyes saw my unformed body” (verses 13-16).

There is another verse, where he says :

[FONT=Arial Narrow","sans-serif]Luke 12:7 : [/FONT]But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not therefore: ye are of more value than many sparrows.

Have you heard of the pregnant transgender woman to man who had 3 children ( married to a woman)?
[FONT=Arial Narrow","sans-serif]http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2019579/Worlds-pregnant-man-Thomas-Beatie-unveils-muscular-body-3-babies.html[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial Narrow","sans-serif]I was using it as an example, in light of the Word of God.

Here is what I found:

[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial Narrow","sans-serif]“[/FONT]And He answered and said to them, ‘Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’“
—Matthew 19:4 (NKJV)

[FONT=Arial Narrow","sans-serif]“[/FONT]But from the beginning of the creation, God ‘made them male and female.’”
—Mark 10:6 (NKJV)

Then the Lord God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man. The man said, 'This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called 'woman,' for she was taken out of man.' For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.

When the Bible mentions marriage, which is ordained by God, I found this definition:
It is always between a man and a woman. Marriage goes beyond the earthly covenant, but it is a divine picture of the relationship between Christ and his Bride, the Church. It is a spiritual representation of our relationship with God[FONT=Arial Narrow","sans-serif].. [/FONT]

The image of God is both male and female and is reflected in a godly union between male and female where the creative power of God, His life-giving, His self-giving and His moral nature are perfectly expressed. This is only possible in a heterosexual union[FONT=Arial Narrow","sans-serif].[/FONT]

Women or females have wombs, and they have the ability to bear children. This is the most distinct and unique difference between her and a man.


“A woman must not wear men’s clothing, nor a man wear women’s clothing, for the Lord your God detests anyone who does this” (Deuteronomy 22:5).



If God had intended the human race to be fulfilled through both heterosexual and homosexual marriage, He would have designed our bodies to allow reproduction through both means and made both means of sexual intercourse healthy and natural. Homosexual anal intercourse carries a high risk of disease, this is recognized in Scripture where gay men are said to receive in their bodies the due penalty for their error.

The Bible clearly and consistently labels any sexual activity outside of marriage or not between a man and a woman as sin, rebellion against God’s plan

Romans 1:26
.26 For this reason wGod gave them up to xdishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, ymen committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

“Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.”
—1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (NKJV)


[FONT=Arial Narrow","sans-serif]We will keep our Gender in Heaven. It is significant.[/FONT]
http://www.crosswalk.com/video-q-a/what-does-the-bible-say-about-gender-transgender-issues.html


Blog with discussion ~ I thought this was really interesting. A lot of thought and good discussion/confession,if you haven’t seen it, already.. ~
What Does the Bible Say About Transgender/Transsexuals and Transvestites?
http://bibleconundrumsandcontroversy.blogspot.ca/2011/10/what-does-bible-say-about.html





[FONT=Arial Narrow","sans-serif].[/FONT]

I completely agree with each and every Scripture you have quoted. What you aren't realizing is that you do NOT agree with them. You only can agree with them in the context of what YOU deem acceptable. Not a single one of the Scriptures cited have anything which addresses transsexuality.

God DID know me before I was formed. And He DID realize who and what I was. He knew I was transsexual before I was born. It's a gift. And when He walked on this earth in flesh He commented on my condition. He began with the statement, “Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given." (Matt 19:11.12)

He wasn't kidding. In fact, MOST cannot accept it.

P.S. If you are going to quote Deut 22:5 out of context, then you are responsible to God Himself to perform perfectly each and every OTHER command given in that same paragraph.

 

[Jesse2014]

I am unsure how to approach to approach this situation.

I am gay. But I do not act upon my desires. I also know what it is like to have strong desires to change into a woman. So I know what gay people go through and what transgender people go through to a point. However, I do not know what it is like to be called queer, [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], or girly like so many other people have been called. For I have sheltered myself from people. I even left the Christian community to avoid rejection. (But I still believe in God's Son, Jesus.)

But given the nature of God, I don't need the Bible to tell me that transgender is not God's way.

God probably hates transexuality.

 

[GenetoJean]

I am unsure how to approach to approach this situation.

I am gay. But I do not act upon my desires. I also know what it is like to have strong desires to change into a woman. So I know what gay people go through and what transgender people go through to a point. However, I do not know what it is like to be called queer, [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], or girly like so many other people have been called. For I have sheltered myself from people. I even left the Christian community to avoid rejection. (But I still believe in God's Son, Jesus.)

But given the nature of God, I don't need the Bible to tell me that transgender is not God's way.

God probably hates transexuality.

Jesse, I hope your life turns out well.