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You know what? I will pray for you also, Dyin! you are such a valuable young person whom God loves! He wants what is the very best for you and this behaviour is not the best at all.
One of the best ways to stop, and I know it works, is to confide in someone whom you hold in high esteem. A youth leader or pastor or another strong Christian young man, and ask Him to keep you accountable. He will check in with you regularly and ask how you are doing, and you need to give him an account of that.
Just knowing that there is someone you have to own up to makes you think twice before giving in to those urges!
It works well, along with prayer and actively seeking another activity to occupy your thoughts.
God bless you! You will do well, I am sure!
Check out the website www.xxxchurch.com
"You only feel guilty because other Christians are telling you it is a sin."You only feel guilty because other Christians are telling you it is a sin. I used to feel guilty for that same exact reason. But I realised feeling guilty just because of words others say is just simply not worth the feeling of guilt in it self.
I guess you should go by how the Holy Spirit is convicting you. Some people don't feel convicted, and some do. If you are convicted and ignore your conviction you are sinning. I believe masturbation is a sin for me because it makes me feel guilty. Im sure that some others don't feel convicted and thats alright.
"You only feel guilty because other Christians are telling you it is a sin."
It's going to be next to impossible for you to prove this statement, but man am I gonna have fun watching you try! LOL A person can not make another person feel guilt. There are those who can try and manipulate you and the pre-existing feelings of guilt a person is having, but no one can instill guilt on another person. The Holy Spirit does that.
I believe it is. God does answer prayer and your newfound knowledge on this issue is proof of that. I can't make someone change their mind about a questionable activity, only the power of God can do that. Praise God!This may be the reason why I am starting to see it as a sin.
"Now, hold on. So you don't believe anyone's ever felt guilty about something without having a good reason to feel that way?"Now, hold on. So you don't believe anyone's ever felt guilty about something without having a good reason to feel that way? Nobody's ever worried that they did something wrong, only to later find out that what they did wasn't wrong at all?
This presumes that Dyin2live is a criminal, and God a police officer. Which isn't true in any sense.One of the best ways to stop, and I know it works, is to confide in someone whom you hold in high esteem. A youth leader or pastor or another strong Christian young man, and ask Him to keep you accountable. He will check in with you regularly and ask how you are doing, and you need to give him an account of that.
Just knowing that there is someone you have to own up to makes you think twice before giving in to those urges!
"Now, hold on. So you don't believe anyone's ever felt guilty about something without having a good reason to feel that way?"
If a person feels guilt about anything it's because of their conscience, which means "with knowledge". True guilt is not merely a feeling that they might have done something wrong. With true guilt they know they've done something wrong. That's not knowledge I can impart to someone because of something I've said, that's a message from God.
"Nobody's ever worried that they did something wrong, only to later find out that what they did wasn't wrong at all?"
They would have to investigate what it is they did that made them feel this way. What I'm saying is I, can not, make anyone feel something inside of them because of something I say. How a person responds to what we say, is beyond our control.
I'm not telling him how to walk with God, I'm warning him against "touch not, eat not, handle not" which you guys are suggesting he should follow, instead of simply living in/through/of/by the grace of God and nothing but the grace of God. God has begun a work in him, in spirit, and you are suggesting he (Dyin2live, not God) finish it in flesh."Dyin2live,
don't!"
Holo, you really hate it when people tell you how to walk with God, so why do you feel justified in teling Dyin2live how to walk with God?
Christ IS his holiness and his righteousness. Nobody ever "grew in Christ" by subjecting themselves to these fleshly rules that you present. They aren't any better or any more sensible or beneficial than the catholic "thou shalt not marry.""Don't let yourself be enslaved by those senseless "touch not, eat not, handle not" rules."
What Dyin2live is experiencing is not enslavement but freedom. He is not willing to live to satisfy his flesh any longer. He's growing in holiness and righteousness.
His masturbation or lack of it isn't a concern. His heart is, though. You're trying to poison his pure heart with "touch not"s. I know you're doing it with good intentions, but just like the law, what was intended for good turns out to bring nothing but DEATH."They only serve to satisfy the flesh. It has nothing to do with your life in Christ, and it won't benefit neither you nor God in any way at all."
Since when are you the expert on what will benefit him or his relationship with God in any way? All anyone can do is focus on their own realtionship with God and grow in holiness and righteousness with Him. I find it absolutely pathetic that you are terrified of Dyin's wish to give up masturbation.
Not at all.What's the matter? Do you know deep down in places you don't like to talk about, in your conscience, that the Holy Spirit has indeed convicted him of his sin, and is coming for you next?
How dare YOU?He's not, he's conflicted about this because of his own conscience. Everyone in this thread has come to their conclusions based upon their own consciences, he is doing the same. How dare you try and interfere with the work of the Holy Spirit in this area.
It's going to be next to impossible for you to prove this statement, but man am I gonna have fun watching you try! LOL A person can not make another person feel guilt. There are those who can try and manipulate you and the pre-existing feelings of guilt a person is having, but no one can instill guilt on another person. The Holy Spirit does that.
Sure people can instill guilt in each other. A muslim could feel terribly guilty for eating pork, because people around him have convinced him -though it isn't actually so- that God diapproves of it. Likewise, you are perfectly able to instill guilt in others, if they see you as an authority on morality."You only feel guilty because other Christians are telling you it is a sin."
It's going to be next to impossible for you to prove this statement, but man am I gonna have fun watching you try! LOL A person can not make another person feel guilt. There are those who can try and manipulate you and the pre-existing feelings of guilt a person is having, but no one can instill guilt on another person. The Holy Spirit does that.
This presumes that Dyin2live is a criminal, and God a police officer. Which isn't true in any sense.
The Holy Spirit does no such thing. Thats why so many criminals show no remorse in court when being sentenced. Because if a person does not feel bad about his crime then the Holy Spirit will not press the issue with that particular person.
Man is the one who affects how people think on this earth. Man trys to teach people of the errors of thier ways, in attempts to make them see how wrong they truly were so that they will become better people later on in life. And a lot of people will feel guilty about thier past crimes if they really want to change.
You see, when I was at Church camp when I was 14, the Holy Spirit never entered my mind on the issue of Masturbation. False prophets did. Speaking of false doctrines that state things are sinfull. I was young, and simply didn't know any better. And I felt guilt after masturbating from that day on for a year and a half. You now say it was the holy Spirit himself putting these thoughts in my brain. But how can that be. It was man who did that. Because the holy spirit would never tell me something false. But man did.
"I'm not telling him how to walk with God, I'm warning him against "touch not, eat not, handle not" which you guys are suggesting he should follow, instead of simply living in/through/of/by the grace of God and nothing but the grace of God."I'm not telling him how to walk with God, I'm warning him against "touch not, eat not, handle not" which you guys are suggesting he should follow, instead of simply living in/through/of/by the grace of God and nothing but the grace of God. God has begun a work in him, in spirit, and you are suggesting he (Dyin2live, not God) finish it in flesh.
Christ IS his holiness and his righteousness. Nobody ever "grew in Christ" by subjecting themselves to these fleshly rules that you present. They aren't any better or any more sensible or beneficial than the catholic "thou shalt not marry."
His masturbation or lack of it isn't a concern. His heart is, though. You're trying to poison his pure heart with "touch not"s. I know you're doing it with good intentions, but just like the law, what was intended for good turns out to bring nothing but DEATH.
Not at all.
How dare YOU?
I'm not telling him to touch or not to touch. I'm offering sound biblical advice not to let himself be enslaved to your fleshly set of rules, which only serve to satisfy the flesh. The commandment isn't the power against sin. It's the power OF sin. You really shouldn't be feeding other people commandments, especially when said commandments are nowhere to be found in the bible.
I have never believed, or said, that it is.The grace of God is not the license to sin you think it is.
His conscience is about as trustworthy as yours and mine - in other words, not very. The Spirit > our conscience."God has begun a work in him, in spirit, and you are suggesting he (Dyin2live, not God) finish it in flesh."
I'm saying Dyin2live should follow what his conscience tells him and the leading of the Holy Spirit, and not anything you or I say.
"Thou shalt not touch.""Christ IS his holiness and his righteousness. Nobody ever "grew in Christ" by subjecting themselves to these fleshly rules that you present."
What rules have I presented?
I have yet to find them there, though.I believe the rules you rail against on a daily basis are found in the Bible
And when was the rule against masturbation added? Rules against masturbation weren't exactly a "core dorctrine" either - but if you're looking for "core doctrines," Paul's warnings against making up such rules would be better."They aren't any better or any more sensible or beneficial than the catholic "thou shalt not marry.""
The Catholic rule against marriage was instituted hundreds of years after the church was founded. It was a later addition and not a core docrtine that the church was founded upon. It actually flies in the face of scriptural teachings and the written word of God.
It's more than that. It's the power of sin."I know you're doing it with good intentions, but just like the law, what was intended for good turns out to bring nothing but DEATH."
You have this completely irrational fear of the law. You really need to get over that and realize that the law is nothing more than a schoolmaster that brings about the knowledge of sin.
Yes, pretty much. Without the commandment, sin loses its power. Sin began reigning in the world because Adam and Eve were tempted by the ability to live based on the knowledge of right and wrong.You seem to think that if the law is not present, sin is not present.
That I acutally feel guilty/convicted about masturbating? Yeah...Yeah, right. Your post delcares otherwise.
Colossians 2:20-23HA! Where is this sound Biblical advice? You have posted zero scriptures to back up your statement of "Don't!"
In the same way that the pharisees were puffed up by their ability to fast and pray for a long time or give a lot of money to the temple. It's not really denial of self, though, it's about nurturing your self and your flesh and your pride.How does denial of self, satisfy the flesh?
I have never believed, or said, that it is.
His conscience is about as trustworthy as yours and mine - in other words, not very. The Spirit > our conscience.
"Thou shalt not touch."
I have yet to find them there, though.
And when was the rule against masturbation added? Rules against masturbation weren't exactly a "core dorctrine" either - but if you're looking for "core doctrines," Paul's warnings against making up such rules would be better.
It's more than that. It's the power of sin.
Yes, pretty much. Without the commandment, sin loses its power. Sin began reigning in the world because Adam and Eve were tempted by the ability to live based on the knowledge of right and wrong.
That I acutally feel guilty/convicted about masturbating? Yeah...
Colossians 2:20-23
Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules: "Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!"? These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings. Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.
In the same way that the pharisees were puffed up by their ability to fast and pray for a long time or give a lot of money to the temple. It's not really denial of self, though, it's about nurturing your self and your flesh and your pride.
Denying yourself is the opposite of subjecting yourself to all sorts of rules and regulations in order to achieve a better standing with God. It's the opposite of dying to yourself and to the world.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zecryphon
The grace of God is not the license to sin you think it is.
"I have never believed, or said, that it is."
You certainly do believe that. You have said repeatedly that you can do whatever you want because you are saved. That is not true.
"His conscience is about as trustworthy as yours and mine - in other words, not very. The Spirit > our conscience."
Do you even know what the word conscience means?
""Thou shalt not touch.""
I have never typed that sentence.
"I have yet to find them there, though."
Oh there in there, but I believe, that when you see them, you just skip ahead because you believe that since you are in Christ, you don't need those rules.
"And when was the rule against masturbation added?"
In the Catholic church? I have no idea as I'm not Catholic.
"Rules against masturbation weren't exactly a "core dorctrine" either - but if you're looking for "core doctrines," Paul's warnings against making up such rules would be better."
Paul wrote extensively about sins of the flesh. Go read about it in 1 Corinthians 6.
"It's more than that. It's the power of sin."
Wrong again. The power of sin is death, and who gives us death for committing sins? Not the law, God pays us for our sins, with death. Read Romans 6:23, and keep in mind what a wage is, and why wages are paid and who pays them.
"Yes, pretty much. Without the commandment, sin loses its power."
Wrong. Unless you have knowledge of sin, and a law that defines what is sinful and what is not, you can never know if you are behaving in a way that is pleasing to God. The moral law was never given to bring salvation, but it was given to show man his need of a savior.
"Sin began reigning in the world because Adam and Eve were tempted by the ability to live based on the knowledge of right and wrong."
Wrong. Sin entered the world when Adam and Eve disobeyed God. When they did the exact opposite of what He commanded them to not do. The law that was in effect in the garden was, 'do not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil'. They ate of that tree, doing the opposite of what God had commanded that they not do, they broke the law. That is the sin. Not the law itself.
"That I acutally feel guilty/convicted about masturbating? Yeah..."
If you felt guilty or convicted about masturbation you would have no problem with Dyin2live giving it up for the reasons he has stated. But you do in fact have a problem with his giving it up for the reasons he has stated.
"Colossians 2:20-23
Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules: "Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!"? These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings. Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence."
Nice try, but these verses are not addressing issues of the moral law, but issues regarding the keeping of the ceremonial law. Rules about touching dead bodies, eating meats, distinction of days, those are issues of ceremonial law not moral law. Masturbation is a violation of the moral law, because it is adultery. Adultery is covered by the moral law not the ceremonial law. These verses don't help your case. Now, go forth from Colossians 2 into Colossians 3. In that chapter Paul lays down a whole bunch of "do's" and "don'ts" do those not apply to you either? The "ruels" as you'd call them start in verse 18.
"In the same way that the pharisees were puffed up by their ability to fast and pray for a long time or give a lot of money to the temple. It's not really denial of self, though, it's about nurturing your self and your flesh and your pride."
What you have to keep in mind about the Pharisees is that they were counting on those actions to save them. They thought they were justified by their works. Christians don't believe that. I don't obey the moral law to earn my way into heaven, I obey the moral law to show my gratitude to God for extending grace to me through His son Jesus Christ by living in a way that He has declared is pleasing to Him.
"Denying yourself is the opposite of subjecting yourself to all sorts of rules and regulations in order to achieve a better standing with God."
That's not why people subject themselves to the moral law. But you'll clearly never understand that, so it's really a dead issue.
"It's the opposite of dying to yourself and to the world"
Dying to self, means dying to the pleasures and wills of the flesh. Masturbation is indulgence in the flesh, it's a sexual sin. It's fornication. Read 1 Corinthians 6:18-20. In fact, read all of chapter 6. You were bought at a price Holo. God owns you now and He has a moral law that has not passed away, it is still in effect and you are not free from it. In fact Christ said that not one jot or tittle of the law would pass away until He came again. What law was He talking about if all laws were nailed to the cross at Calvary?
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