Is touching yourself a sin? (2)

[holo]

Whoa!

Isaiah 5:20
Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil;
Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness;
Who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

Exactly.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Exactly.

...which is what you are doing, calling something good which does not honour God IN ANY WAY.

 

[Gukkor]

...which is what you are doing, calling something good which does not honour God IN ANY WAY.

...or were you calling something that is natural and healthy evil?

 

[Breetai]

...or were you calling something that is natural and healthy evil?

Are natural feelings always good for us? Should I give in to my natural desire to make love to the beautiful women I see? It would be healthy for my ego and pleasurable for my body. Should I give in to my natural desire to grab that apple on display outside of the fruit stand? I would be healthy for my body. Some things that are natural are evil.

As for masturbation, is it really a healthy thing? Do we become sick if we do not do it? Do we become more healthy if we do it?

Your argument seems to be on shaky ground here.


Personally, I don't see how masturbation by itself is sinful. I do see that it's most often connected with sinful thoughts and desires, and for most people, it should be avoided in order to keep the mind clean of sinful thought.

 

[holo]

...which is what you are doing, calling something good which does not honour God IN ANY WAY.

YOU don't honour God in any way. You are doing like an OT jew, acting as if a piece of meat itself is holy or unclean or whatever. YOU have a problem with masturbation, just like others have problems with meats or with alcohol and therefore are unable to use these things in faith, while thanking the Lord. And that's not a problem - you have issues and you shouldn't be condemned for them.
Don't impose YOUR sexual problems and deviations onto others.

 

[holo]

As for masturbation, is it really a healthy thing? Do we become sick if we do not do it? Do we become more healthy if we do it?

The health benefits may not be enormouely huge, but there aren't many people built for never having [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]. It's not "natural" to get married either, BTW. That's just our frame around a monogamous relationship.

However, if masturbation had actually been harmful in any way... but it's simply not.

 

[Floatingaxe]

YOU don't honour God in any way. You are doing like an OT jew, acting as if a piece of meat itself is holy or unclean or whatever. YOU have a problem with masturbation, just like others have problems with meats or with alcohol and therefore are unable to use these things in faith, while thanking the Lord. And that's not a problem - you have issues and you shouldn't be condemned for them. The problem is that you assume that everybody is as hopelessly perverted as yourself.

Don't impose YOUR sexual problems and deviations onto others.

Masturbation is not one of those debatable activities. It is another form of fornication.

I don't have any sexual problems, thanks. Stop making this a personal issue. I am stating what I believe. If you don't like it--I can tell you don't--then disagree, but personalizing your venomous responses is quite like a petulant child...once again.

 

[Floatingaxe]

...or were you calling something that is natural and healthy evil?

Not at all.

 

[Floatingaxe]

The health benefits may not be enormouely huge, but there aren't many people built for never having [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]. It's not "natural" to get married either, BTW. That's just our frame around a monogamous relationship.

However, if masturbation had actually been harmful in any way... but it's simply not.

Such carnal thinking! Not worthy of much contemplation.

 

[holo]

Masturbation is not one of those debatable activities.

Jews would say the same thing about swine, and seventh-day adventists would say the same thing about the sabbath.

The fact that you are unable to debate it, doesn't actually make it undebatable.

It is another form of fornication.

No, it's not. That's not in any way a logical thing to say, and it's not biblical in the slightest, either.

I don't have any sexual problems, thanks.

Yes, you do. You have a serious problem with masturbation. You couldn't touch without unnatural lusts and perverted fantasies.

Stop making this a personal issue. I am stating what I believe. If you don't like it--I can tell you don't--then disagree, but personalizing your venomous responses is quite like a petulant child...once again.

Yeah, look who's talking...

 

[holo]

Such carnal thinking! Not worthy of much contemplation.

That's you in a nutshell, isn't it? Must... refuse... to contemplate... another person's... opinion... argh!

 

[Floatingaxe]

That's you in a nutshell, isn't it? Must... refuse... to contemplate... another person's... opinion... argh!

I don't have to contemplate anyone's opinion that goes against God and His Word. Most of your posts do that, except for maybe two I can think of.

 

[holo]

I don't have to contemplate anyone's opinion that goes against God and His Word.

Exactly my point. Because that means that you must, beforehand, know God and His will, for every person, ever, in detail. In other words, you must be completely unlike any other person to EVER have walked the earth. It's called megalomania. It means that nobody can ever teach you anything at all, because you already know the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Exactly my point. Because that means that you must, beforehand, know God and His will, for every person, ever, in detail. In other words, you must be completely unlike any other person to EVER have walked the earth. It's called megalomania. It means that nobody can ever teach you anything at all, because you already know the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

God has a specific will for everyone. How would I know what that is? But God has a general will that is universal for all of us. It doesn't deviate. We should all know that, holo! That is what I speak of here in CF, and you know it.

 

[holo]

So, what is God's will about clothes? Is God's will that everybody should wear clothes?

 

[Floatingaxe]

So, what is God's will about clothes? Is God's will that everybody should wear clothes?

Start your own thread on that, holo..see where it gets you...I take it by other posts of yuours that you like to think of yourself as some type of nudist?

 

[holo]

Start your own thread on that, holo..see where it gets you...I take it by other posts of yuours that you like to think of yourself as some type of nudist?

It's a simple question, Floatingaxe, and it's relevant to this discussion. Is God's will, for everybody, that they wear clothes or not?

 

[Floatingaxe]

It's a simple question, Floatingaxe, and it's relevant to this discussion. Is God's will, for everybody, that they wear clothes or not?

You tell us, oh wise one.

 

[holo]

You tell us, oh wise one.

OK. The answer is yes AND no. Or rather, the question is ultimately pointless. It could only make sense to a legalist. Just like asking "does God condone lying?" - in at least one instance in the bible, He most definately did. Or, "does God forbid sex?" - there is no one single correct answer to that, and certainly not one that would apply to everybody, forever. In the bible, God specifically says "this is unclean!" in one law, then later declares everything to be clean!

And yet, masturbation, which isn't even mentioned in the bible (while something as absurd as bestiality IS) is supposedly "clearly" against God's will, and for EVERYBODY...

Point being, you have NO grounds to claim that God opposes masturbation. Not ONE single reason. It all boils down to YOUR personal morality. Which you may share, by all means. But don't act as is if your opinion equals the word of God.

 

[Jim47]

Things need a bit of cooling down here. If you can't contain your posts this thread will be re-closed after a cooling off period and not re-opened. Lets keep personal attacks out of this. It is after all a Christian forum