• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
  • We hope the site problems here are now solved, however, if you still have any issues, please start a ticket in Contact Us

Is Tithing for the Christian today?

2Timothy2:15

Well-Known Member
Mar 28, 2016
2,226
1,229
CA
✟78,268.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I would like to hear some doctrinal support for or against if the Christian is to tithe today. Please make your case upon scripture and not conjecture if possible. I will admit I do have a clear personal stance on this topic but I would like to begin a healthy discussion on the topic. Please leave insults out. If you are a Pastor, please identify yourself as such. God Bless

What is tithing?

Who tithes?

Who receives the tithe?

What is the biblical definition of the tithe?

Is the tithe for the New Testament Christian?
 

dysert

Member
Feb 29, 2012
6,233
2,240
USA
✟128,004.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I am not a pastor. I tithe, but I don't think it's for the Christian today. The reason I tithe is because my wife thinks it's biblical and I'd rather not get into a fight about it. After all, the church does need to cover its expenses, so I do think I should give *something* towards that. My wife thinks we should give 10% of our income, so that's what we do. If it weren't for her I'd still give something, but I wouldn't be legalistic about it.
 
Upvote 0

~Anastasia~

† Handmaid of God †
Dec 1, 2013
31,132
17,447
Florida panhandle, USA
✟939,721.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Hello 2Tim2:15, and welcome to CF and to TT! I pray that you are blessed by being here!

(Mostly I wanted to welcome you, but I'll give my answers to your questions, fwiw)

I would like to hear some doctrinal support for or against if the Christian is to tithe today. Please make your case upon scripture and not conjecture if possible. I will admit I do have a clear personal stance on this topic but I would like to begin a healthy discussion on the topic. Please leave insults out. If you are a Pastor, please identify yourself as such. God Bless

What is tithing?

Who tithes?

Who receives the tithe?

What is the biblical definition of the tithe?

Is the tithe for the New Testament Christian?

Tithing, or giving "the tenth" was established primarily as a way for the nation of Israel who had their own part in the inheritance to support the Tabernacle/Temple/and primarily the Levites/priests who did not receive a share of the inheritance, since it was their lot to serve God.

Interestingly enough, if one was not near the Temple or could not go, they were told to basically use the tenth to throw a big party, enjoy, and thank The Lord for what He had provided.

I don't believe the tithe, per se, is applicable to us after Christ in a legalistic sense. But really, we are called to more. Rather than portioning out 10%, ideally we should be doing all we can for the good of the brethren, especially, support of those in need, provision for carrying on Church services, sending missionaries, and otherwise furthering the Kingdom of God. Ideally it should be more than 10% for many, but if there is a situation where it would be failure to properly care for one's own family then it would be legalistic to deprive them in order to give a tithe. Just as it can be legalistic to give exactly a tithe and then use the remaining 90% partly for indulging many pleasures just because one is rich and has much left over.

We should be led by our hearts (hopefully under the guidance of the Holy Spirit) in a spirit of love for all - not by a sense of obligation. Ideally.

I'll leave it at that.

Again, welcome!
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

LastSeven

Amil
Site Supporter
Sep 2, 2010
5,205
1,046
Edmonton, Alberta
✟154,576.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
No, we are not required to tithe. First of all, tithing in the old testament had nothing to do with money, it was about the produce of the land. So 1/10th of the produce of the land from the 11 tribes who had land, was to be given to the one tribe that did not have their own land which was the Levites, so they could eat.

I did a little study on this last year. I'll post it here for your benefit.

Tithing. Is it Biblical?

I’m going to get right to the point. Tithing as we know it today, in the modern church, is not biblical. Giving, out of the goodness of your heart, is of course biblical, but this is not the same thing as tithing the way the churches expect you to tithe, nor the way the Israelites tithed before Jesus came.

Churches teach that we should give 10% of our income to the church because the Israelites were commanded to do the same in the Old Testament. Not only is that 10% number incorrect, but even if it were correct, we are not under the law. And if we put ourselves under the law, by trying to obey even one command, then we are refusing the sacrifice of Christ who took on the curse of the law so that we can be free of it. As Christians we live by grace and love, not by law.

Tithing in the Bible

There are three kinds of tithing in the bible.

1. The tithe to the Levites (Numbers 18:21-32)

2. The festival tithe (Deuteronomy 12:5-19)

3. Tithes to the poor (Deuteronomy 14:28-30)

The Tithe to the Levites

When the Israelites entered the promised land, 11 of the 12 tribes received a piece of land as their inheritance. The 12th tribe, the Levites, who had the task of serving as priests for Israel, did not receive any land. This is why 10% of the produce of the land was to be given to the tribe of Levites, since they did not have their own. If a man wanted to give a monetary tithe instead, it had to be 12% not 10% (Leviticus 27:31). Furthermore, the tenth of each herd or flock was also to be given as a tithe.

Also of note is that God commanded this tithe to be given to the Levites as a reward for the work they did in the tabernacle and for bearing the sins of the people (a job which Jesus assumed on the cross). (Numbers 18:21-23).

The Festival Tithe


God ordered feasts for the Israelites where they were to gather together in Jerusalem three times per year (For the feast of tabernacles, passover and the feast of weeks) and bring a tenth of their grain, their new wine, oil and the firstborn of the herds and flocks and rejoice before the Lord in celebration.

If people were unable to make the journey or unable to carry their goods to the feast, they were permitted to sell their goods and use the money to buy for themselves whatever they desired to celebrate before the Lord. As part of this command they were also reminded to include the Levites in the celebration and allow them to partake in the tithe, because they did not have their own land to produce food with which to celebrate.

So this is another 10% of the produce of the land, on top of the original 10% which was to be given to the Levites.

Tithe to the Poor

The third tithe was collected once every three years (and since tithe means 10% this amounted to 3.3% per year) and this was set aside for “the strangers, the fatherless, widows, and Levites living within the gates of the Israelites” so that they may eat and be satisfied. This tithe also came with a blessing from the Lord as a reward for giving the tithe.

Summary

Altogether, the tithes amounted to 23.3% of the goods produced from the land. 10% for the Levites, 10% for the three annual feasts, and 3.3% for the poor to celebrate once every three years.

There are a few important points to note here.

1. All three tithes were intended to be produce from the land and herds only, not monetary.

2. The tithes were not given to God, but to people, for reward, celebration and charity.

3. Most importantly, these commands were part of the law, which we are not under.

Translating the Law to Modern Day

If you want to try to obey the law (which is akin to rejecting Christ), and substitute today’s pastors for Israelite Levites, then you need a farm. Then bring 10% of everything you grow on that farm to church on Sunday. If you can’t carry the fruits and veggies to church then you are permitted to sell it all and then give 12% not 10% of your income.

Obviously, I am not suggesting you do this. I am making the point that tithing to your church is very different from what the Israelites did in the Old Testament.

Tithes Were Never for God

Secondly, tithes were never given to God, so the old argument that “you are stealing from God” if you do not give a tithe to the church is a lie, and if your pastor is still using that line, you need to call him on it. God has his own inheritance, which is his people. He does not need a tithe from our land or our wallets.

We Are Not Under the Law

The third point is by far the most important point here. Jesus fulfilled the law, which means we no longer live by it. Jesus is our priest now, not the Levites. He bore our sins on the cross, so we no longer need Levites to do it for us (and no, pastors are not our modern day Levites). We are all priests in Christ Jesus.

Paul warns that if we choose to live by even one letter of the law, then we are putting ourselves under the entire law and in doing so would be rejecting the sacrifice of Jesus. In Galatians he uses circumcision as the example, but we can assume that this applies to any part of the law.

Galatians 3:10, 5:3
For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."…I'll say it again. If you are trying to find favor with God by being circumcised, you must obey every regulation in the whole law of Moses.

We are not living under the law. The law lives in and comes forth from our hearts. This is the new covenant. Jesus said the greatest command is to love the Lord your God and your neighbour as yourself. From these flow all the other laws. In other words, we give to the poor and celebrate before the Lord not because we are commanded to, but because we want to because of the love that is in us.

Jesus took away the curse from us. Don’t take it back by trying to obey the law in tithing.

Give Out of Love

Instead, give out of the love that flows from your heart. Give to the church if you want to, but do so out of love for God and for God’s people, not because you believe you are commanded to give a tenth of all you earn.

Matthew 22:37-40
37 Jesus replied: ‘“Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.”[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: “Love your neighbour as yourself.” 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.’

Just to be clear; I am not saying you should not give money to your church. I’m saying, if you choose to do so, do it for the right reasons and do not be fooled into thinking that we are under any command to do so. If you feel your church does good work and should be supported financially, then by all means, do so, but if your pastor tells you you're stealing from God if you choose not to do so, then he's lying. God does not want or need our money. God's inheritance is his people.

Personally I would rather give to a charity which I know does not spend 80% of its revenue on mortgages, utilities, sound equipment and janitorial services, but maybe that’s just me.
 
Upvote 0

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
39,983
29,715
Pacific Northwest
✟834,755.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
If by tithe we mean we are required, by divine commandment, to give a tenth of our income/produce. No, that isn't biblical. There is no such command for the Church.

If by "tithe" is meant a more general concept of giving, that is, should Christians help support their community? Not by commandment, but it's something we ought to do out of Christian charity and compassion. Those who have more have an opportunity to help those who don't have; and by donating our goods (historically) or money (more modern) we can see that the needs of our brothers and sisters, and those in our community at large, are met. So that people don't go without food, or without clothing, shelter, etc.

Historically people would offer what they could, so farmers contributed crops, bakers offered bread they had made, etc. And these would then be distributed as needed. In the modern world most of us only really have money to represent what we have, and so money is offered, and held, and used according to a budget. People who work for the church are paid, because they need food on the table too, both clergy and lay workers. Churches typically still need to pay the bills, so some of it goes to paying the bills. Money is used for charitable outreach, to help people in need, etc.

While there exists no commandment that Christians have to give, if nobody contributed anything there simply wouldn't be a functioning community and nothing could get done. Christians contributing to the needs of the Church has been a basic part of Christian life since the very beginning--Scripture itself describes this very thing, even saying that a "worker deserves his wages" to refer to the fact that those whose vocations are explicitly for the Church--such as pastors--deserve a living wage.

-CryptoLutheran
 
Upvote 0

2Timothy2:15

Well-Known Member
Mar 28, 2016
2,226
1,229
CA
✟78,268.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
No, we are not required to tithe. First of all, tithing in the old testament had nothing to do with money, it was about the produce of the land. So 1/10th of the produce of the land from the 11 tribes who had land, was to be given to the one tribe that did not have their own land which was the Levites, so they could eat.

I did a little study on this last year. I'll post it here for your benefit.

Tithing. Is it Biblical?

I’m going to get right to the point. Tithing as we know it today, in the modern church, is not biblical. Giving, out of the goodness of your heart, is of course biblical, but this is not the same thing as tithing the way the churches expect you to tithe, nor the way the Israelites tithed before Jesus came.

Churches teach that we should give 10% of our income to the church because the Israelites were commanded to do the same in the Old Testament. Not only is that 10% number incorrect, but even if it were correct, we are not under the law. And if we put ourselves under the law, by trying to obey even one command, then we are refusing the sacrifice of Christ who took on the curse of the law so that we can be free of it. As Christians we live by grace and love, not by law.

Tithing in the Bible

There are three kinds of tithing in the bible.

1. The tithe to the Levites (Numbers 18:21-32)

2. The festival tithe (Deuteronomy 12:5-19)

3. Tithes to the poor (Deuteronomy 14:28-30)

The Tithe to the Levites

When the Israelites entered the promised land, 11 of the 12 tribes received a piece of land as their inheritance. The 12th tribe, the Levites, who had the task of serving as priests for Israel, did not receive any land. This is why 10% of the produce of the land was to be given to the tribe of Levites, since they did not have their own. If a man wanted to give a monetary tithe instead, it had to be 12% not 10% (Leviticus 27:31). Furthermore, the tenth of each herd or flock was also to be given as a tithe.

Also of note is that God commanded this tithe to be given to the Levites as a reward for the work they did in the tabernacle and for bearing the sins of the people (a job which Jesus assumed on the cross). (Numbers 18:21-23).

The Festival Tithe


God ordered feasts for the Israelites where they were to gather together in Jerusalem three times per year (For the feast of tabernacles, passover and the feast of weeks) and bring a tenth of their grain, their new wine, oil and the firstborn of the herds and flocks and rejoice before the Lord in celebration.

If people were unable to make the journey or unable to carry their goods to the feast, they were permitted to sell their goods and use the money to buy for themselves whatever they desired to celebrate before the Lord. As part of this command they were also reminded to include the Levites in the celebration and allow them to partake in the tithe, because they did not have their own land to produce food with which to celebrate.

So this is another 10% of the produce of the land, on top of the original 10% which was to be given to the Levites.

Tithe to the Poor

The third tithe was collected once every three years (and since tithe means 10% this amounted to 3.3% per year) and this was set aside for “the strangers, the fatherless, widows, and Levites living within the gates of the Israelites” so that they may eat and be satisfied. This tithe also came with a blessing from the Lord as a reward for giving the tithe.

Summary

Altogether, the tithes amounted to 23.3% of the goods produced from the land. 10% for the Levites, 10% for the three annual feasts, and 3.3% for the poor to celebrate once every three years.

There are a few important points to note here.

1. All three tithes were intended to be produce from the land and herds only, not monetary.

2. The tithes were not given to God, but to people, for reward, celebration and charity.

3. Most importantly, these commands were part of the law, which we are not under.

Translating the Law to Modern Day

If you want to try to obey the law (which is akin to rejecting Christ), and substitute today’s pastors for Israelite Levites, then you need a farm. Then bring 10% of everything you grow on that farm to church on Sunday. If you can’t carry the fruits and veggies to church then you are permitted to sell it all and then give 12% not 10% of your income.

Obviously, I am not suggesting you do this. I am making the point that tithing to your church is very different from what the Israelites did in the Old Testament.

Tithes Were Never for God

Secondly, tithes were never given to God, so the old argument that “you are stealing from God” if you do not give a tithe to the church is a lie, and if your pastor is still using that line, you need to call him on it. God has his own inheritance, which is his people. He does not need a tithe from our land or our wallets.

We Are Not Under the Law

The third point is by far the most important point here. Jesus fulfilled the law, which means we no longer live by it. Jesus is our priest now, not the Levites. He bore our sins on the cross, so we no longer need Levites to do it for us (and no, pastors are not our modern day Levites). We are all priests in Christ Jesus.

Paul warns that if we choose to live by even one letter of the law, then we are putting ourselves under the entire law and in doing so would be rejecting the sacrifice of Jesus. In Galatians he uses circumcision as the example, but we can assume that this applies to any part of the law.

Galatians 3:10, 5:3
For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."…I'll say it again. If you are trying to find favor with God by being circumcised, you must obey every regulation in the whole law of Moses.

We are not living under the law. The law lives in and comes forth from our hearts. This is the new covenant. Jesus said the greatest command is to love the Lord your God and your neighbour as yourself. From these flow all the other laws. In other words, we give to the poor and celebrate before the Lord not because we are commanded to, but because we want to because of the love that is in us.

Jesus took away the curse from us. Don’t take it back by trying to obey the law in tithing.

Give Out of Love

Instead, give out of the love that flows from your heart. Give to the church if you want to, but do so out of love for God and for God’s people, not because you believe you are commanded to give a tenth of all you earn.

Matthew 22:37-40
37 Jesus replied: ‘“Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.”[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: “Love your neighbour as yourself.” 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.’

Just to be clear; I am not saying you should not give money to your church. I’m saying, if you choose to do so, do it for the right reasons and do not be fooled into thinking that we are under any command to do so. If you feel your church does good work and should be supported financially, then by all means, do so, but if your pastor tells you you're stealing from God if you choose not to do so, then he's lying. God does not want or need our money. God's inheritance is his people.

Personally I would rather give to a charity which I know does not spend 80% of its revenue on mortgages, utilities, sound equipment and janitorial services, but maybe that’s just me.


Excellent post to the point! This was a biblicaly sound response and this gives me hope that there are those who still read their bibles in context.
 
  • Like
Reactions: angelos17
Upvote 0

2Timothy2:15

Well-Known Member
Mar 28, 2016
2,226
1,229
CA
✟78,268.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
If by tithe we mean we are required, by divine commandment, to give a tenth of our income/produce. No, that isn't biblical. There is no such command for the Church.

If by "tithe" is meant a more general concept of giving, that is, should Christians help support their community? Not by commandment, but it's something we ought to do out of Christian charity and compassion. Those who have more have an opportunity to help those who don't have; and by donating our goods (historically) or money (more modern) we can see that the needs of our brothers and sisters, and those in our community at large, are met. So that people don't go without food, or without clothing, shelter, etc.

Historically people would offer what they could, so farmers contributed crops, bakers offered bread they had made, etc. And these would then be distributed as needed. In the modern world most of us only really have money to represent what we have, and so money is offered, and held, and used according to a budget. People who work for the church are paid, because they need food on the table too, both clergy and lay workers. Churches typically still need to pay the bills, so some of it goes to paying the bills. Money is used for charitable outreach, to help people in need, etc.

While there exists no commandment that Christians have to give, if nobody contributed anything there simply wouldn't be a functioning community and nothing could get done. Christians contributing to the needs of the Church has been a basic part of Christian life since the very beginning--Scripture itself describes this very thing, even saying that a "worker deserves his wages" to refer to the fact that those whose vocations are explicitly for the Church--such as pastors--deserve a living wage.

-CryptoLutheran


Where does it say anyone is to make their entire living from the people? You do know that Paul had a job, making tents. In ACTS 20 he even says that him having a job is the example he gave us. The whole notion of the church building that we see today is not even in the bible with all it's expenses. Its electrical bills, mortgage, admins, grounds keepers and all it takes to keep a building and staff running is found no where in the bible. This is why you have pastors and there are a ton of them telling them they are required to tithe 10% of their gross income to the church.


Acts 20
29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

32 And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.

33 I have coveted no man's silver, or gold, or apparel.

34 Yea, ye yourselves know, that these hands have ministered unto my necessities, and to them that were with me.

35 I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive.

36 And when he had thus spoken, he kneeled down, and prayed with them all.

37 And they all wept sore, and fell on Paul's neck, and kissed him,

38 Sorrowing most of all for the words which he spake, that they should see his face no more. And they accompanied him unto the ship.

Paul is warning us that wolves would come in. He specifically says he did not covet their silver or gold or clothes...meaning money and what they could provide for him. Instead he says he labored and he even provided for others with his work, this is the mark of a true leader of God. One who provides for himself and does not leech off the people expecting a paycheck to "pastor". As soon as you get a paycheck to pastor and that is your sole source of income, you have become a hireling.
 
Upvote 0

Soyeong

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2015
12,739
4,696
Hudson
✟359,386.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single
I would like to hear some doctrinal support for or against if the Christian is to tithe today. Please make your case upon scripture and not conjecture if possible. I will admit I do have a clear personal stance on this topic but I would like to begin a healthy discussion on the topic. Please leave insults out. If you are a Pastor, please identify yourself as such. God Bless

What is tithing?

Who tithes?

Who receives the tithe?

What is the biblical definition of the tithe?

Is the tithe for the New Testament Christian?

Deuteronomy 14:23 And before the LORD your God, in the place that he will choose, to make his name dwell there, you shall eat the tithe of your grain, of your wine, and of your oil, and the firstborn of your herd and flock, that you may learn to fear the LORD your God always.

Tithing is giving a tenth from your agricultural produce to the poor and the Levites and is something that you often ate. The Levites needed support because they were not given an inheritance and their service was to God, so while we no longer have Levites performing this service, we still have those who work in service to God that need our support and we still have the poor among us. We also still have to principle throughout the Bible of giving our first and best to God. During the time of Jesus there was also a temple tax to pay for their expenses, and our buildings still have expenses. We have to pay for insurance, mortgage, janitorial, plumbing, electrical, heating, cooling, coffee, and other maintenance costs, so if you benefit from having a functioning building, then you should help cover those costs. God's law is spiritual (Romans 7:14), meaning that it is meant to teach us spiritual principles for how we should live our lives by faith in a manner that is pleasing to God, so while the tithe geared towards an agricultural society, we should still follow the same principles.
 
  • Like
Reactions: pdudgeon
Upvote 0

All4Christ

✙ The Handmaid of God Laura ✙
CF Senior Ambassador
Site Supporter
Mar 11, 2003
11,805
8,193
PA
Visit site
✟1,247,017.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Where does it say anyone is to make their entire living from the people? You do know that Paul had a job, making tents. In ACTS 20 he even says that him having a job is the example he gave us. The whole notion of the church building that we see today is not even in the bible with all it's expenses. Its electrical bills, mortgage, admins, grounds keepers and all it takes to keep a building and staff running is found no where in the bible. This is why you have pastors and there are a ton of them telling them they are required to tithe 10% of their gross income to the church.


Acts 20
29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

32 And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.

33 I have coveted no man's silver, or gold, or apparel.

34 Yea, ye yourselves know, that these hands have ministered unto my necessities, and to them that were with me.

35 I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive.

36 And when he had thus spoken, he kneeled down, and prayed with them all.

37 And they all wept sore, and fell on Paul's neck, and kissed him,

38 Sorrowing most of all for the words which he spake, that they should see his face no more. And they accompanied him unto the ship.

Paul is warning us that wolves would come in. He specifically says he did not covet their silver or gold or clothes...meaning money and what they could provide for him. Instead he says he labored and he even provided for others with his work, this is the mark of a true leader of God. One who provides for himself and does not leech off the people expecting a paycheck to "pastor". As soon as you get a paycheck to pastor and that is your sole source of income, you have become a hireling.
Am I correct in understanding that you believe any pastor or priest who accepts compensation for their work is, in your opinion, a wolf coming into the church?

Some practical questions: if a minister works full time for the church, how do you expect him to provide for his family? Should we not voluntarily support those who dedicate their entire lives to working for God?

I realize that you are suggesting that Christians should not have church buildings. However, the early church apostles still attended synagogue. Is that not an establishment, with bills to pay?

I have a family member who is a pastor. He is the last to be paid, and often he ends up paying out of his personal money to cover bills that are not covered by offerings. Is this what you suggest - that the pastor pays out of pocket the expenses the church requires in order to run?

Paul himself discusses how the people should provide for those who are ministers of the gospel:

"And He called the twelve together, and gave them power and authority over all the demons, and to heal diseases. 2 And He sent them out to proclaim the kingdom of God, and to perform healing. 3 And He said to them, “Take nothing for your journey, neither a staff, nor a bag, nor bread, nor money; and do not even have two tunics apiece. 4 “And whatever house you enter, stay there, and take your leave from there. 5 “And as for those who do not receive you, as you go out from that city, shake off the dust from your feet as a testimony against them,” (Luke 9:1-5).

Paul told them to not take any of their own items on the journey. The people of the Church were instructed to provide hospitality for them - to house them, clothe them, and provide for them. If they did not receive the apostles, the apostles were instructed to testify against them by going out of the city and dusting off their feet.

I agree that a pastor should not expect an exorbitant amount of money (such as some televangelist or some particular mega churches which I will not name here). However, I am more than happy to help him and his family have an adequate salary, as he is working very hard every day.
 
Upvote 0

LastSeven

Amil
Site Supporter
Sep 2, 2010
5,205
1,046
Edmonton, Alberta
✟154,576.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Some practical questions: if a minister works full time for the church, how do you expect him to provide for his family? Should we not voluntarily support those who dedicate their entire lives to working for God?

I realize your question was not directed at me, but I would say this: Your question presupposes that it's God's will that a man "work full time for the church".
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2Timothy2:15
Upvote 0

LastSeven

Amil
Site Supporter
Sep 2, 2010
5,205
1,046
Edmonton, Alberta
✟154,576.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
...we still have those who work in service to God that need our support...
While this is true, I would differentiate between those who go on a missions trip vs those who expect to make a permanent living off "the church".

Here's an interesting fact. I recently learned that Jehovah's witnesses don't have full time paid "pastors". Instead they minister to each other on Sundays on an entirely voluntary basis.

I realize that in most modern churches we're so familiar with the "paid pastor" model that it seems a given, but I ask you, in comparing this model to the JW model, which model more closely resembles that of Paul's ministry?
 
Upvote 0

Returner

Bible Reader and Believer.
Sep 28, 2014
52
21
USA
✟23,014.00
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Celibate
Tithing was written about in the old testament, but it never was associated with money.

Pastors/preachers should be ashamed to ask for Tithes.
It's offensive to God that Pastors/preachers are making a living off of the Gospel.

Preaching a sermon should be done for free.
Jesus never asked for money to be given to him in order to pay for his living.

True Christians don't need to be giving any money to any church.

Instead, give things (but not money) to the homeless...that would help a lot more.
 
Upvote 0

All4Christ

✙ The Handmaid of God Laura ✙
CF Senior Ambassador
Site Supporter
Mar 11, 2003
11,805
8,193
PA
Visit site
✟1,247,017.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
While this is true, I would differentiate between those who go on a missions trip vs those who expect to make a permanent living off "the church".

Here's an interesting fact. I recently learned that Jehovah's witnesses don't have full time paid "pastors". Instead they minister to each other on Sundays on an entirely voluntary basis.

I realize that in most modern churches we're so familiar with the "paid pastor" model that it seems a given, but I ask you, in comparing this model to the JW model, which model more closely resembles that of Paul's ministry?

Do you recognize that the early apostles still attended the synagogue - which was an establishment with bills? Have you considered the context of the early church with its persecution, and the impact it made on the manner that church services were held?

In order for me to understand your background - Do you attend a church? What model does it follow?

I suggest that being a missionary is no different than a person ministering full time in single location. Greed is wrong, pastors shouldn't be paid an exorbitant amount, and the money given from church members should be spread across to others who need help. However, recognizing the service someone renders and giving a free will offering that will support them is very Biblical.

Our Tradition doesn't charge for services like weddings, funerals, etc. as that is a ministry provided to the parish family. However, we voluntarily choose to support our church's expenses and to support our pastor as he works extremely hard to further the gospel.

Money is given to those in need, and the tithes do not stay solely in the church. The early church provided for all those in need, and we try to do the same. However, it is not against the Bible to support those who help others.

Also - in regards to the JW - they do not follow the tithing model, but they do have voluntary donations which support their expenses.


Consider the following passage where Paul directs the way the church should manage their giving and provisions to eachother: 1 Timothy 5

Note the section about the elders, and the comparison to how a laborer is paid for his works, and how an elder should be counted worthy as double honor.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Hank77
Upvote 0

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
39,983
29,715
Pacific Northwest
✟834,755.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
True Christians don't need to be giving any money to any church.

Ah, there it is. The True Christians™ trope.

-CryptoLutheran
 
Upvote 0

Returner

Bible Reader and Believer.
Sep 28, 2014
52
21
USA
✟23,014.00
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Celibate
The best thing would be having a gathering of Christians outside of any building and sharing their Bible studies and worship together.

Everyone should worship without having to give money for anything.

Or else it makes church seem like a strip club, giving "tithes" for what you see and hear.
 
Upvote 0

All4Christ

✙ The Handmaid of God Laura ✙
CF Senior Ambassador
Site Supporter
Mar 11, 2003
11,805
8,193
PA
Visit site
✟1,247,017.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
The best thing would be having a gathering of Christians outside of any building and sharing their Bible studies and worship together.

Everyone should worship without having to give money for anything.

Or else it makes church seem like a strip club, giving "tithes" for what you see and hear.

Please show enough respect for those who dedicate the entire life to God by not comparing churches with buildings to "strip clubs".
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
39,983
29,715
Pacific Northwest
✟834,755.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
The best thing would be having a gathering of Christians outside of any building and sharing their Bible studies and worship together.

Everyone should worship without having to give money for anything.

Or else it makes church seem like a strip club, giving "tithes" for what you see and hear.

Meanwhile, in the real world, people need to eat and bills need to get paid.

-CryptoLutheran
 
Upvote 0

LastSeven

Amil
Site Supporter
Sep 2, 2010
5,205
1,046
Edmonton, Alberta
✟154,576.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
In order for me to understand your background - Do you attend a church? What model does it follow?

I don't attend church anymore. Primarily because I see very little actual teaching of the word of God in church, and I see a lot of teaching that is contrary to the word of God. All I see is a "church culture" where people make the church (and here I mean specifically their local church that they attend) the centre of their faith, rather than Christ.
 
Upvote 0

LastSeven

Amil
Site Supporter
Sep 2, 2010
5,205
1,046
Edmonton, Alberta
✟154,576.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Meanwhile, in the real world, people need to eat and bills need to get paid.

-CryptoLutheran
So essentially what you're saying is that these pastors have started a business and expect to get paid for it. Or are you saying that they're only doing God's work and expect to get paid for it?
 
Upvote 0