Is This The New Normal?

[essentialsaltes]

You are absolute correct. It wasn’t the riots of 2020, it was in 2014, in the aftermath of the Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown riots that California changed the laws to increase the amount stolen from a place of business for petty theft (a misdemeanor) to $950/person or incident with grand theft (over $950) being a felony. And then refused to arrest or prosecute the individuals arrested.

Felony theft in Texas starts at $2,500.

 

[A New Dawn]

Felony theft in Texas starts at $2,500.

OK

 

[A New Dawn]

The question was about when the conservatives became big government people. I gave the poster a leeway to interpret that as the GOP, since it is hard to call that part as "conservative". They don't really conserve anything.

Of course I did. The alternative were *BAD* for policy (and in the case of Biden, his opponent was bad for democracy).

More IRS employees mean the taxes I have to pay are processed faster to get a refund for the overpayments I had to make through the year by law. The *amount* of tax I had to pay was set by *CONGRESS* (who also authorized the size of the IRS). The other big thing all of those IRS employees did was to make sure fewer of the people who make a lot more than I do use complex filings to avoid paying taxes they should pay (including those breaking the law).

87,000 more IRS employees means more taxes to pay to cover the salaries of the 87,000 extra employees.

 

[A New Dawn]

There ideological hatred of government and government workers has caused serious damage or destruction to functions of government that are critical for the functioning of a modern nation.

Biden should have thought about that before weaponizing the DoJ, allowing almost 20M illegals aliens over the border (or flying them in to avoid customs, completely) without even attempting to to get it under control, allowing extra-governmental agencies to create laws, bypassing Congress (which, admittedly, many other precious presidents allowed). The founding fathers envisioned a small federal government with the states being mostly responsible for their own constituents, so it is not unreasonable for the people to distrust a mammoth federal government, especially when some of the presidents have been highly partisan in the actions they took.

 

[Hans Blaster]

87,000 more IRS employees means more taxes to pay to cover the salaries of the 87,000 extra employees.

It's been studied. More IRS employees results in higher revenue collection that is more than the cost of more employees. I'm sure there is a point where it wouldn't, but taxes don't collect themselves.

 

[A New Dawn]

It's been studied. More IRS employees results in higher revenue collection that is more than the cost of more employees. I'm sure there is a point where it wouldn't, but taxes don't collect themselves.

It isn’t the people that collect the taxes from the vast majority of the people, it is the employers who take it directly out of our paychecks.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Oh, look! A series of outrageous false RW media talking points.

Biden should have thought about that before weaponizing the DoJ,

No one who was charged who didn't commit crimes. Perhaps Trump's fans and allies should have considered that before committing their special crimes.

allowing almost 20M illegals aliens over the border (or flying them in to avoid customs, completely) without even attempting to to get it under control,

This is a fantasy number from the addled mind of a habitual liar running for president. There aren't even "20M illegals aliens" in the US now, in January, last year, or *EVER*. The number might have gone up by 2 million or so from around 11-12M to perhaps as many as 15M.

allowing extra-governmental agencies to create laws, bypassing Congress (which, admittedly, many other precious presidents allowed).

Congress authorizes execuative agencies (all part of government) to set regulations related to the broader laws passed by Congress. Congress has even passed a law to regulate how regulation is done:

Administrative Procedure Act - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The founding fathers envisioned a small federal government with the states being mostly responsible for their own constituents, so it is not unreasonable for the people to distrust a mammoth federal government, especially when some of the presidents have been highly partisan in the actions they took.

The "founding fathers" envisioned a government that future Americans would have the power to update and alter. (It would be weird if they didn't, since they were themselves altering/rewritting in the form of replacement a government that was less than a decade old.) That's why they provided a mechanism for altering the Constitution and specified the powers of Congress broadly.

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

You are absolute correct. It wasn’t the riots of 2020, it was in 2014, in the aftermath of the Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown riots that California changed the laws to increase the amount stolen from a place of business for petty theft (a misdemeanor) to $950/person or incident with grand theft (over $950) being a felony. And then refused to arrest or prosecute the individuals arrested.

Do you believe that because California raised the petty theft threshold to $950, making amounts over that a felony, the state is now weak on crime and supports riots and vandalism?

If this is your reasoning, are you aware of which states have the highest thresholds? In Texas and Wisconsin, the threshold for a petty offense to be classified as a felony is $2,500. Does this imply that these states tolerate riots and vandalism?

This website provides a complete list of states along with the theft amounts that constitute a felony. California is listed as number 39. The threshold for felony theft in California is lower than that of the federal government.

Felony Theft Amount by State 2025

Discover population, economy, health, and more with the most comprehensive global statistics at your fingertips.

worldpopulationreview.com

 

[A New Dawn]

Oh, look! A series of outrageous false RW media talking points.

No one who was charged who didn't commit crimes. Perhaps Trump's fans and allies should have considered that before committing their special crimes.

This is a fantasy number from the addled mind of a habitual liar running for president. There aren't even "20M illegals aliens" in the US now, in January, last year, or *EVER*. The number might have gone up by 2 million or so from around 11-12M to perhaps as many as 15M.

Congress authorizes execuative agencies (all part of government) to set regulations related to the broader laws passed by Congress. Congress has even passed a law to regulate how regulation is done:

Administrative Procedure Act - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The "founding fathers" envisioned a government that future Americans would have the power to update and alter. (It would be weird if they didn't, since they were themselves altering/rewritting in the form of replacement a government that was less than a decade old.) That's why they provided a mechanism for altering the Constitution and specified the powers of Congress broadly.

Not even close. The founding fathers knew, from looking around at all the other current and historic nations of the world, that centralized power just evolves to totalarianism, at best, and communism, at worst. Things they wanted to avoid with this new experiment. Just because they made the Constitution so it can, under duress, be altered, doesn’t mean they envisioned what their experiment would become today, or be happy with it.

 

[A New Dawn]

Do you believe that because California raised the petty theft threshold to $950, making amounts over that a felony, the state is now weak on crime and supports riots and vandalism?

If this is your reasoning, are you aware of which states have the highest thresholds? In Texas and Wisconsin, the threshold for a petty offense to be classified as a felony is $2,500. Does this imply that these states tolerate riots and vandalism?

This website provides a complete list of states along with the theft amounts that constitute a felony. California is listed as number 39. The threshold for felony theft in California is lower than that of the federal government.

Felony Theft Amount by State 2025

Discover population, economy, health, and more with the most comprehensive global statistics at your fingertips.

worldpopulationreview.com

I believe that because they did that and were soft on crime for many years, many large-scale businesses closed down in those riot-torn cities and pulled their businesses from California, as well as their headquarters because they believe that California doesn’t have their backs anymore. And the businesses that stayed keep their products under lock and key so they don’t suffer more losses. AND, as a result of that that (losing the income that corporations pay in taxes, etc.), VERY recently, they started being more responsible as far as fighting crime.

TBH, I have no interest in comparing states monetary levels of what’s considered petty theft, my concern centered only around how California, in this instance, responded to the looting issue during the riots. Instead of policing and sentencing the perpetrators, they increased the amount that is considered petty cash so that those acts of theft did not fall into the felony category and could be easily dismissed. It showed, IMO, that California had no interest or intention of keeping their citizens safe at a time when it was not safe to move around the city, to go to work, to be sick or injured and needing to get to a hospital, etc.

 

[essentialsaltes]

at a time when it was not safe to move around the city, to go to work, to be sick or injured and needing to get to a hospital, etc.

There's been nothing like that in Los Angeles (writ large) since Rodney King.

And California has been acting.

It's not clear to me if the OP is about the current apparent rash of smash and grab robberies at high end boutiques, or the looting associated with actual riots a year ago. Regardless, the police also made arrests for those, both at the time, and in the months afterwards as people were identified. Many people were not charged for curfew violations, but I doubt people arrested for looting were not charged.

Hundreds arrested in Santa Monica amid widespread looting

As concerns and political criticism rise over a rash of brazen retail thefts across California, Gov. Gavin Newsom on Friday announced a package of grants for police agencies and prosecutors to crack down on the organized crime rings believed to be largely responsible.

Newsom said the $270 million in grant money, as well as $25 million for small businesses victimized by theft, will be in his proposed budget when it’s released in January. [it has now been released, and that item is indeed in there]

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

I believe that because they did that and were soft on crime for many years, many large-scale businesses closed down in those riot-torn cities and pulled their businesses from California, as well as their headquarters because they believe that California doesn’t have their backs anymore. And the businesses that stayed keep their products under lock and key so they don’t suffer more losses. AND, as a result of that that (losing the income that corporations pay in taxes, etc.), VERY recently, they started being more responsible as far as fighting crime.

TBH, I have no interest in comparing states monetary levels of what’s considered petty theft, my concern centered only around how California, in this instance, responded to the looting issue during the riots. Instead of policing and sentencing the perpetrators, they increased the amount that is considered petty cash so that those acts of theft did not fall into the felony category and could be easily dismissed. It showed, IMO, that California had no interest or intention of keeping their citizens safe at a time when it was not safe to move around the city, to go to work, to be sick or injured and needing to get to a hospital, etc.

Texas raised its felony theft threshold from $1,500 to $2,500 in 2015, a year after riots and looting you are talking about. Do you think Texas increased the threshold because they want to make sure their citizen who vandalize business should not be prosecuted?

 

[Hans Blaster]

Not even close. The founding fathers knew, from looking around at all the other current and historic nations of the world, that centralized power just evolves to totalarianism, at best, and communism, at worst. Things they wanted to avoid with this new experiment. Just because they made the Constitution so it can, under duress, be altered, doesn’t mean they envisioned what their experiment would become today, or be happy with it.

Checks news. Re-reads post. Checks news. Re-reads post.

I would agree with the that unchecked power of the executive beyond the bounds of the law, the courts, and the Congress leads to tyranny. That's why I want a Congress that is not just their to do the leader's bidding. Unfortunately we have Mike Johnson.

 

[A New Dawn]

Texas raised its felony theft threshold from $1,500 to $2,500 in 2015, a year after riots and looting you are talking about. Do you think Texas increased the threshold because they want to make sure their citizen who vandalize business should not be prosecuted?

Texas isn’t California.

 

[A New Dawn]

Checks news. Re-reads post. Checks news. Re-reads post.

I would agree with the that unchecked power of the executive beyond the bounds of the law, the courts, and the Congress leads to tyranny. That's why I want a Congress that is not just their to do the leader's bidding. Unfortunately we have Mike Johnson.

The left has no room to talk when they had all their representatives, senators AND the media doing their dirty work.

 

[Hans Blaster]

The left has no room to talk when they had all their representatives, senators AND the media doing their dirty work.

What has this got to do with excessive seizing of executive power in violation of the Constitution?