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Featured Is this story related to the Mark of the Beast?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by BABerean2, Apr 5, 2021 at 9:28 AM.

  1. Hammster

    Hammster Jesus is Post-Mil Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    No, I never said that. There’s nothing about Israel becoming a full nation in Matt 24.

    Matt 24 isn’t about the Second Coming.

    Nope. None of that is true.
    I don’t divide up the Olivet Discourse. It’s all about the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple.
     
  2. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    This happens after the Second Coming by Jesus Christ Himself on the earth during the Trumpets. Not applicable to any other time frame. Christ is not on the earth sowing the seed at any time prior to the Second Coming.

    The church sows and reaps her own seed of the Gospel. And even if the church sows in every tribe or city on earth, does not mean all will accept the Gospel. Most do not repent in sackcloth and ashes repenting like Nineveh. Even the church herself will not always stay repentant in sackcloth and ashes.
     
  3. Spiritual Jew

    Spiritual Jew Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Not in Jerusalem. So, people who use Revelation 11:8 to identify the great city Babylon as Jerusalem are in error.

    Scripture is quite clear that Jesus was crucified outside of Jerusalem.

    Hebrews 13:11 The high priest carries the blood of animals into the Most Holy Place as a sin offering, but the bodies are burned outside the camp. 12 And so Jesus also suffered outside the city gate to make the people holy through his own blood. 13 Let us, then, go to him outside the camp, bearing the disgrace he bore.

    John 19:20 Many of the Jews read this sign, for the place where Jesus was crucified was near the city, and the sign was written in Aramaic, Latin and Greek.
     
  4. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    Oh? Verse 3

    "And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?"

    Verse 30

    "And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."

    How can this not be the Second Coming?

    The world cannot end until after the Second Coming. It did not end in the 1st century.
     
  5. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    Why are you lumping the fig tree into the Olivet Discourse and claim the NT only addresses the Olivet Discourse?
     
  6. Hammster

    Hammster Jesus is Post-Mil Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    It’s not the Second Coming™. It’s a kingdom parable. And when did Jesus say that the kingdom would come?
     
  7. Hammster

    Hammster Jesus is Post-Mil Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    Read the OT about coming on clouds, and what it means.
     
  8. Hammster

    Hammster Jesus is Post-Mil Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    So Rev 11:8 means some dirt plot outside of the city gates? Mkay.
     
  9. Spiritual Jew

    Spiritual Jew Well-Known Member Supporter

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    What's the deal with your immature response? Are you going to deny what I said even though I backed it up with clear scripture? The great city Babylon is a spiritual city and is the opposite of the new heavenly Jerusalem.

    How could earthly Jerusalem spiritually be called Sodom and Egypt? That doesn't make any sense. Have you ever considered that? Or are you going to insist that it's referring to earthly Jerusalem even though scripture clearly says that Jesus was crucified outside of Jerusalem?
     
  10. Hammster

    Hammster Jesus is Post-Mil Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    The city is clearly the city that Christ was crucified in. It’s right in the text. I’m not making it up.
     
  11. Spiritual Jew

    Spiritual Jew Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Right, but what city is that and how do you know it's referring to an earthly city? Can't Babylon be a spiritual or symbolic city just like the new Jerusalem? The city Christ was crucified in was not earthly Jerusalem according to Hebrews 13:12 and John 19:20. Do you accept what Hebrews 13:12 and John 19:20 tell us?
     
  12. Taodeching

    Taodeching Well-Known Member

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    It is dangerous. But in the paradigm that some Christians work under everything can be the mark, it is a combination of interpreting the Bible with the newspaper near and very bad exegesis.
     
  13. Hammster

    Hammster Jesus is Post-Mil Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    Well, because it’s the city He was crucified in, unless you can think of someplace else he was crucified at?
     
  14. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Governor of Florida pushes back against "Vaccine Passorts":



    .
     
  15. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    It is OK if we do not agree on all things.
    I love you, Brother.

    We will let the scriptures make the decision.


    Mat_16:21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.

    Mat_20:18 Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn him to death,

    Mat_23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

    Mar_10:33 Saying, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be delivered unto the chief priests, and unto the scribes; and they shall condemn him to death, and shall deliver him to the Gentiles:

    Luk_9:31 Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.

    Luk_13:34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!

    Luk_18:31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.

    Act_10:39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:


    He may have been killed outside of the city gates, but it was at the city of Jerusalem.

    .
     
  16. Spiritual Jew

    Spiritual Jew Well-Known Member Supporter

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    How could He be killed outside the city gates and still be killed in the city? And how could He have been killed "near the city" (John 19:20) but also in the city? I don't buy that. Outside of the city gates means outside of the city. As John 19:20 says, it was "near the city", but still outside of it. We obviously agree on a lot, so I'm not offended if we disagree on this particular thing. It's fine. Can't expect to agree on everything.

    I know that this thread isn't really about this topic specifically, so I'll try not to have a long debate with you on this. My point here is that He was crucified outside of Jerusalem and I believe that isn't debatable since Hebrews 13:12 and John 19:20 make that abundantly clear. None of the verses you quoted here say otherwise as they only refer to where He was given over to the chief priests and where He was sentenced to death, but they don't address where He actually died.

    Do some research on the location of Golgotha and you should see that it was not within the city of Jerusalem. Near it, yes, but not within it.

    So, the question becomes, what is Revelation 11:8 referring to exactly when it refers to the great city where Jesus was crucified? If it's intending to refer to the great city Babylon as an earthly city (rather than the spiritual opposite to the new Jerusalem as I believe) then it can't be referring to Jerusalem if we accept the fact that He was not crucified in Jerusalem as Hebrews 13:12 and John 19:20 tell us.

    So, please explain how the great city where Jesus was crucified, as referenced in Revelation 11:8, can be Jerusalem when we know that He was not actually crucified in Jerusalem but instead was crucified "outside the city gates" and "near the city". The only explanation I can see, from your perspective, is that it's referring generally to the place where He was mistreated and delivered to be sentenced to death even though it's not where He was actually crucified. But, I don't believe that's what it's saying.

    Since you see the great city mentioned in Rev 11:8 as being Jerusalem then I'm curious about your understanding of the two witnesses, but we don't have to go into detail on that here.
     
  17. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Are there two Jerusalems in Galatians 4:24-31, and also in the Book of Revelation?
    Which one is the city of "bondage" and which one is "above" and our "mother" (Hebrews 11:15-16)?

    Which one is our home in Revelation 3:12, as opposed to the one in Revelation 11:8?


    Which one is the Jerusalem found in my last post?

    Luk_18:31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.

    If you have to ignore Luke 18:31 to make your viewpoint work, it can not be correct.

    .
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2021 at 10:17 AM
  18. Spiritual Jew

    Spiritual Jew Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Except He wasn't crucified in Jerusalem as Hebrews 13:12 and John 19:20 indicate. Do you not accept what those verses say?

    The book of Revelation has a great deal of figurative language and symoblism within it and this is no exception, in my opinion. I don't believe the great city Babylon refers to an earthly city any more than the new heavenly Jerusalem does. I believe it's a spiritual/figurative city that the lost dwell in spiritually while the new heavenly Jerusalem is the spiritual/figurative city that believers dwell in spiritually (Hebrews 12:22, Gal 4:26).

    If the great city Babylon represents earthly Jerusalem then please tell me why earthly Jerusalem would spiritually be called Sodom and Egypt (Rev 11:8).
     
  19. Spiritual Jew

    Spiritual Jew Well-Known Member Supporter

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    There are two in Gal 4:24-31, but they figuratively represent two covenants (old and new) as verse 24 indicates. I don't see any direct relation between that passage and the book of Revelation. I don't believe earthly Jerusalem is in view in the book of Revelation.

    To me the book of Revelation centers around Christ and His church and those who oppose Him and His church and has a global scope rather than centering around earthly Israel and Jerusalem.
     
  20. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Based on Luke 18:31, was Christ crucified at Jerusalem?

    If you took an airline to go to the place where Christ was crucified, what city would be on your airline ticket?


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