Is THIS Orthodoxy?!

[MishaM]

Ok, so this post is going to be a bit of a rant with an honest to goodness question...

So I am Orthodox albeit in a Synod not many would recognize 'as' Orthodox but that is neither here nor there as I am presently dealing with this on my own and hope to resolve this in the near future.

I took my wife to Liturgy today. Needless to say that as much as I could explain Orthodoxy to her there is nothing better than to "come and see." So we went. The parish we went to is a bit on the 'nutjob' end of the spectrum but we went cause I have a friend who went this week and we wanted to meet up.

Well in the end I know that she was a bit overwhelmed by it all. She had to go to work right after Liturgy and so we have not had alot of time to talk about everything but I think she has questions so we will.

--Insert Rant Below---
Ok so this priest, during Trapeza made a lot of comments about my *present* choice of Synod. Not that he had the decency to say this to me so hew could understand my reasonings, he had to say this while I was away from the table and could not (or he thought as I heard the entire thing) hear what it was he said. Upon returning to the table he resumed the conversation as if nothing had happened. GRR...

To make matters worse, KNOWING that my wife was not Orthodox and was looking at the Faith for the first time, made several comments in conversation about hos if you are not Orthodox then you are not a Christian. He made some comments in a conversation with another parishioner at the table about how "if someone was Orthodox then you could invite them over to your house every day of the week..."

I dunno maybe I am totally over reacting here but my wife has already said on the way that she will not ever go back there and that if this was Orthodoxy then she wanted no part of it.

Now I will say this, I knew ahead that some of this was to be expected due to the priest and his choice of Synod, and so therefore we come to the next issue at hand... As I said, I am married. Due to issues with *my* choice of Synod and some issues therein I was not married in the Church. I did not say to the priest or to the parishioners we spoke with that my wife was my wife. I sort of thought that the rings would speak for themselves so to speak.

I did not say anything to them because I know their ideas and knew that if I had said that she was my wife then it would have been questions upon questions, alot of which I did not want to go into and did not think it was right for my wife ot be put through the gamut of "Well, WHY are YOU not Orthodox?" because this is already a tough thing for her as it has been the reception she has gotten from many Orthodox already. I thought I was saving her the issue and the trouble but in the end I realize now that it only caused issue and hardship for us.

(I know at this point in this post I am about to get a huge slap in the face by the entire forum, thanks, but I got enough of it from my wife when we were on our way home as well as when we got home, but thanks.)

My question is twofold I guess.

1. Has anyone who had a priest like this before? Would you have done/said anything differently? How do you react to those who are not Orthodox who come to visit and see what Orthodoxy is about?

2. Do you think that going to a different (read: not so 'harsh') parish would give her a different side, a softer per se side of Orthodoxy? There is an OCA mission nearby where I live that I was thinking of going to prior to making the decision to go to the parish where we had this confrontation.

2a. Is there anyone in Tempe, AZ or nearby that goes to the mission I am talking about that might be open to talking to me more on this side of things? I would be very appreciative.

Also if there are any women that read this that want to verbally thrash me I guess I am open for that as well. I am not sure if my initial intentions that brought about my actions are clear but the thrashing is welcome, I deserve it looking back in what I did.

Thanks for your input.

In Christ,
Misha
---
Hebrews 13:8

 

[Michael G]

What synod are you part of that we would not recognize it as being Orthodox?

 

[MishaM]

I really did not want to go into Synods etc. but I guess since I opened the door I will answer your question.

I am presently a member of the ROAC. I have posted here before under the name of Juvenaly (my baptismal name, Misha is my middle name). Back then I was 'zealous without knowledge' and said some really nasty stuff. When I wanted to come back on here and post I could not remember my password and thought it best to start a new account. (Sorry if this was a bad thing, public floggings commence after this post).

I am in the process of leaving the ROAC however, as i said in my last post and am looking into possibilities for a spiritual home.

It will probably come up by someone else and so I will answer the next logical question as well. The parish I went to today was a parish of the GOC (Matthewites).

Thanks for your responses, they are appreciated and I ask for forgiveness of anyone I hurt or offended in the past. .

In Christ,
Misha
---
Hebrews 13:8

 

[Michael G]

1. The priest did not act like any priest should act. He should not criticize you behind your back, that is not Christian. He also should not be so hard on your wife who is not Orthodox, that is not pastoral.

2. Yes, I think attending an OCA parish would be much more conducive to your wife being open to Orthodox Christianity.

 

[authiodionitist]

It seems to me that you are quite fluent in Orthodox politics: are you looking for an Old Calendar parish?

 

[MishaM]

Thank you MtI. I appreciate your response.

In Christ,
Misha
---
Hebrews 13:8

 

[MishaM]

I am only (and sadly) well versed in Ortho-politics because of the situations I have found myself in where politics of this sort were very prevailant.

I am looking for a temporary place to attend Liturgy until we move to Fresno. Then I will be looking for something more permanent. OC or NC at this point makes no difference to me as the basics need to be covered before we get into anything further. Wherever I can attain this works for me.

In Christ,
Misha
---
Hebrews 13:8

 

[Michael G]

I am only (and sadly) well versed in Ortho-politics because of the situations I have found myself in where politics of this sort were very prevailant.

I am looking for a temporary place to attend Liturgy until we move to Fresno. Then I will be looking for something more permanent. OC or NC at this point makes no difference to me as the basics need to be covered before we get into anything further. Wherever I can attain this works for me.

In Christ,
Misha
---
Hebrews 13:8

I would suggest something a bit more mainstream would greatly help in showing your wife what Orthodoxy is like. Situations with spouses not being Orthodox need to be handled with great pastoral care, which it seems the priest you met today was lacking. I know about the spousal thing becuase it took my x wife 3 years to convert after I did.

 

[MishaM]

Yes this is sort of what brought about my whole issue was the lack of pastoral care that was taken. Granted I was also not very intelligent in my own way of handling things but thats a whole mess of my own.

The OCA parish seems to be a good start.

I guess I should amend and add a few things to my initial post by asking if there is anyonre in the Fresno area that attends Liturgy and who has a priest (or knows a priest) with a good pastoral mindset please let me know.

Also, I need to make something clear as well in all of this. My wife is VERY (I can not stress VERY enough) turned off to anything that would come across as having anything to do with Roman Catholicism.

Let me give you an example. I was showing her pictures of some of the clergy in the area here and she saw a few priests wearing Roman collars and she just about lost her mind.

Again, I think a WO parish would be the best place to start but in taking the above paragraph into consideration I would be seeking someone (a priest) who would "look the part" (Gosh that sounds bad.. sorry...)

Thanks again,

In Christ,
Misha
---
Hebrews 13:8

 

[FlyFast]

Deleted

 

[authiodionitist]

Yes this is sort of what brought about my whole issue was the lack of pastoral care that was taken. Granted I was also not very intelligent in my own way of handling things but thats a whole mess of my own.

The OCA parish seems to be a good start.

I guess I should amend and add a few things to my initial post by asking if there is anyonre in the Fresno area that attends Liturgy and who has a priest (or knows a priest) with a good pastoral mindset please let me know.

Also, I need to make something clear as well in all of this. My wife is VERY (I can not stress VERY enough) turned off to anything that would come across as having anything to do with Roman Catholicism.

Let me give you an example. I was showing her pictures of some of the clergy in the area here and she saw a few priests wearing Roman collars and she just about lost her mind.

Again, I think a WO parish would be the best place to start but in taking the above paragraph into consideration I would be seeking someone (a priest) who would "look the part" (Gosh that sounds bad.. sorry...)

Thanks again,

In Christ,
Misha
---
Hebrews 13:8

If you're worried about dress with collars, check out the photos of the parish clergy on the OCA website to see what they're wearing....

 

[Michael G]

Yes this is sort of what brought about my whole issue was the lack of pastoral care that was taken. Granted I was also not very intelligent in my own way of handling things but thats a whole mess of my own.

The OCA parish seems to be a good start.

I guess I should amend and add a few things to my initial post by asking if there is anyonre in the Fresno area that attends Liturgy and who has a priest (or knows a priest) with a good pastoral mindset please let me know.

Also, I need to make something clear as well in all of this. My wife is VERY (I can not stress VERY enough) turned off to anything that would come across as having anything to do with Roman Catholicism.

Let me give you an example. I was showing her pictures of some of the clergy in the area here and she saw a few priests wearing Roman collars and she just about lost her mind.

Again, I think a WO parish would be the best place to start but in taking the above paragraph into consideration I would be seeking someone (a priest) who would "look the part" (Gosh that sounds bad.. sorry...)

Thanks again,

In Christ,
Misha
---
Hebrews 13:8

My x-wife had the same issue with Roman Catholicism. She was Church of Christ for 20 years before she met me and she was very nervous of anything that even looked Roman Catholic. That is where alot of pastoral sensitivity on the priests behalf is needed.

 

[Eusebios]

Misha,
I second what Michael has said. The actions of the priest in question seem highly uncharitable, and not in keeping with a priest's pastoral duties. However the GOC affiliation tends to explain a little.
It seems wise to me that you would be better off in the OCA parish. You need to tell your poor wife that this priest's attitude and actions are not typical or indicative of Orthodoxy. Perhaps you could persuade her to drop in here and ask questions?
In any event, welcome back to TAW, you are in my prayers.
Peace,
Don

 

[Michael G]

Misha,
I second what Michael has said. The actions of the priest in question seem highly uncharitable, and not in keeping with a priest's pastoral duties. However the GOC affiliation tends to explain a little.
It seems wise to me that you would be better off in the OCA parish. You need to tell your poor wife that this priest's attitude and actions are not typical or indicative of Orthodoxy. Perhaps you could persuade her to drop in here and ask questions?
In any event, welcome back to TAW, you are in my prayers.
Peace,
Don

I have to agree with what my friend Eusebios says. I hope he did not scare her off. You need to procede with patience in this whole thing. Please understand that I speak only from experience and I made a ton of mistakes in trying to force my x-wife to convert. In the end she converted when she and God were ready for her to convert.

 

[MishaM]

First off,

Thank you all! Your replies are very great help to me.

My wife is not turned off (thank God!) and is willing to look further without taking a single experience and making a general assumption.

Yeah I think I am going to wait a bit or wait for her to bring up the idea of going back to a church and then go to the OCA mission.

She is a part of another forum (Crosswalk) and was in there asking questions and was reading the stuff that they provided her on basics of Orthodoxy so it is a start and I think from this point forward I am going to leave it in her hands to decide what she is ready for and when. God will lead I will follow.

In Christ,
Misha
---
Hebrews 13:8

 

[Michael G]

Misha, that sounds good. I hate to sound like I was lecturing and ask your forgiveness if I did sound that way. I just made a ton of mistakes so if you or anyone else can learn from my failures then that would be a good thing.

 

[Shubunkin]

I cannot imagine an Orthodox priest saying such things.

I do not believe you did anything wrong, Misha. Hope you find a parish that will be good for you and your wife.

I will pray for you.

 

[MishaM]

Dear in Christ, MtI,

No I did not see you as lecturing. You were exactly the type of person I was looking for when I posted my original question. Who better to answer then someone who has been there? Perfect! Thank you again for your words of wisdom and I shall keep you all informed as to the progress.

Just a die note. I looked at the OCA website and from the looks of it the priest of the mission near me is only one of the two priests listed in the directory for the entire state of AZ that has a picture LOL. Things look good though, no Roman collars seen on the website as of yet! LOL. Now I have a bit of mapping to do cause the list of clergy in CA is pretty extensive but as of yet there does not seem to be anything close. =( Anyone wanna start a mission with me?

In Christ,
Misha
---
Hebrews 13:8

 

[Michael G]

Dear in Christ, MtI,

No I did not see you as lecturing. You were exactly the type of person I was looking for when I posted my original question. Who better to answer then someone who has been there? Perfect! Thank you again for your words of wisdom and I shall keep you all informed as to the progress.

Just a die note. I looked at the OCA website and from the looks of it the priest of the mission near me is only one of the two priests listed in the directory for the entire state of AZ that has a picture LOL. Things look good though, no Roman collars seen on the website as of yet! LOL. Now I have a bit of mapping to do cause the list of clergy in CA is pretty extensive but as of yet there does not seem to be anything close. =( Anyone wanna start a mission with me?

In Christ,
Misha
---
Hebrews 13:8

Please do.

 

[cassc]

I am really glad that your wife was not scared away by this harsh man. I am not from your area so I have no suggestions for a specific parish but I know that there are so many wonderful priests and parishes out there. My priest is so wonderful and extremely kind and welcoming, my parish has very nice people but unfortunately it is not the most welcoming to strangers (not unkind but to be honest a little self absorbed) So while I would certainly bring an inquirer to speak with my priest I probably would not invite them to a big parish function... There is no perfect parish but I think that there is a right parish for everyone.

What happened to you and your wife is not a god example of orthodoxy and I am very sorry that it happened to you both. You will probably need to screen parishes a little before you bring her to visit, there are so many wonderful,welcoming, Holy churches you should be able to find one that will exemplify the correct Orthodox ideals.