• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Is this offensive?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Crazy Liz

Well-Known Member
Oct 28, 2003
17,090
1,106
California
✟23,305.00
Faith
Christian
There is ugliness in every crucifix. As CR pointed out, the degree to which crosses are beautified is the degree to which the artist has removed it from its original significance and given it a new significance.

I wear a beautiful cross around my neck, which has a significance for me that turns this trend upside-down, as it was worn by a dying man, who was my friend. Others see beauty, but it represents death. In a way, it is the opposite of what we do when we flower the cross on Easter Sunday.

That paradox between beauty and ugliness is a large part of the meaning of the cross for Christians.
 
Upvote 0

Latreia

Gone
Jun 13, 2005
19,719
1,013
✟24,734.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
There is ugliness in every crucifix. As CR pointed out, the degree to which crosses are beautified is the degree to which the artist has removed it from its original significance and given it a new significance.

I wear a beautiful cross around my neck, which has a significance for me that turns this trend upside-down, as it was worn by a dying man, who was my friend. Others see beauty, but it represents death. In a way, it is the opposite of what we do when we flower the cross on Easter Sunday.

That paradox between beauty and ugliness is a large part of the meaning of the cross for Christians.


How sad that it is so alien to you, because there is no paradox. There is the miracle that Love came out of the worst that man could do to man.

That out of the blackness of death came New Life.

They call it the Resurrection.

icon10.gif
 
Upvote 0
C

CelticRose

Guest
That does not make what happened to Christ on the cross any less ugly or horrible. It merely points out the grace that has so freely & undeservedly been granted unto us. To deny the ugliness is to deny what it cost Jesus to die for us. Yes, He is resurrected, but He had to go through the cross & nothing in scripture or out of it tells me this was an easy or pleasant experience. Quite the opposite in fact.
 
Upvote 0

Crazy Liz

Well-Known Member
Oct 28, 2003
17,090
1,106
California
✟23,305.00
Faith
Christian
How sad that it is so alien to you, because there is no paradox. There is the miracle that Love came out of the worst that man could do to man.

That out of the blackness of death came New Life.

They call it the Resurrection.

icon10.gif
Yes, and that is a paradox, isn't it? The mystery of the gospel?
 
Upvote 0

Latreia

Gone
Jun 13, 2005
19,719
1,013
✟24,734.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I have problems with these, not because I think they are ugly, but I do think they obscure the truth of the cross & we do need to remember Christ was crucified on a Roman cross between two thieves, not on an altar between two candles. Sorry, I can't remember where the quote is from. Crucifixtion is about the cruelest, ugliest death imaginable.

What I can't understand about you is that you seem to want to stay fixed on the agony of the cross, to keep reliving it over and over.

The Messiah did not stay on the cross, is not crucified forever. That is what the gospels are about, that Jesus is resurrected, then and forever.

Our Lord Jesus is living, now, within us. He died for us, suffered for us, but that is not the final word.

Why not let Him be resurrected and free us of sin?
Must He stay on that cross just for you?

icon10.gif
 
Upvote 0

ZiSunka

It means 'yellow dog'
Jan 16, 2002
17,006
284
✟46,267.00
Faith
Christian
You are saying this is ugly, then:

ceremonial-processional-cross.gif



Perhaps we need to alert Raven?


While we are at it, get these out of the Religious Special Items:

ProCross.gif
monstrance-926.gif
Soldier%20Cross7.gif







Those are very lovely trinkets. But they are not representative of the nature of crucifixion. Christ did not die in a beautiful, peaceful way. There was blood and stench and suffering and unbearable pain. None of the crosses you posted show any of that, because it is offensive to people to see that kind of suffering.

The only thing I would change about the chocolate sculpture is, I would make the face broken to represent the beatings and the suffering he took for us. He had been torn apart by the scourging. He would have been filthy from falling bloodied onto the dirty street. He would have been covered in welts and sweat.

Over the centuries, artists have cleaned Christ up and given him a countenance of slumbering, but he really died in agony.

This is more like he would have looked on the cross:

crucifixion1.jpg




But even that image has cleaned away the blood, sweat dirt and tears. All those hideous renderings of the crucifixion in old gothic cathedrals are more accurate than anything we hang in our churches today.
 
Upvote 0

Latreia

Gone
Jun 13, 2005
19,719
1,013
✟24,734.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Those are very lovely trinkets. But they are not representative of the nature of crucifixion. Christ did not die in a beautiful, peaceful way. There was blood and stench and suffering and unbearable pain. None of the crosses you posted show any of that, because it is offensive to people to see that kind of suffering.

The only thing I would change about the chocolate sculpture is, I would make the face broken to represent the beatings and the suffering he took for us. He had been torn apart by the scourging. He would have been filthy from falling bloodied onto the dirty street. He would have been covered in welts and sweat.

Over the centuries, artists have cleaned Christ up and given him a countenance of slumbering, but he really died in agony.

This is more like he would have looked on the cross:

crucifixion1.jpg




But even that image has cleaned away the blood, sweat dirt and tears. All those hideous renderings of the crucifixion in old gothic cathedrals are more accurate than anything we hang in our churches today.


It is because Christians remember what Christ suffered on the cross that makes them rejoice in His Resurrection.

Every Christian reaches for knowledge of Jesus in every portion of His life, knowing Him in all of it..

That is why it is doubly tragic to keep Him fastened to the Cross as though He never triumphed over it all.

He IS the King of Kings, the Lord of Lords, He is the Messiah and the Saviour of the World. Not because He stayed on that cross, but because He defeated the message that the Roman Empire lined the roads with, the crucifixions of thousand of human beings, of Jews, and gentiles as well. That they died and rotted there and were unknown, though not unmourned.

"Where we had thought to travel outward, / we shall come to the center of our own existance..../ Where we had thought to find an abomination, / we shall find a God..... / Where we had thought to conquer another, / we shall conquer ourselves..... / Where we had thought to be alone, / we shall be with all the world. "
~ Joseph Campbell
 
Upvote 0

ZiSunka

It means 'yellow dog'
Jan 16, 2002
17,006
284
✟46,267.00
Faith
Christian
I used to agree with you that portraying Christ on the cross denied his resurrection and triumph over sin and death.

Now I've started to think that Evangelicals miss out on a deeper understanding of Him because they never look at the suffering, the death and the gore. No, He's no longer on the cross, but that doesn't mean we should never think of the time when he was on the cross. Those six hours were the pivotal event of this universe.
 
Upvote 0

Latreia

Gone
Jun 13, 2005
19,719
1,013
✟24,734.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I used to agree with you that portraying Christ on the cross denied his resurrection and triumph over sin and death.

Now I've started to think that Evangelicals miss out on a deeper understanding of Him because they never look at the suffering, the death and the gore. No, He's no longer on the cross, but that doesn't mean we should never think of the time when he was on the cross. Those six hours were the pivotal event of this universe.

Then I give you this, to be with Him:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hxmlUWceHg
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.