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Is this freedom of speech or inciting violence?

simplegifts

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Under the Radar Blog: Josh Gerstein on the Courts, Transparency, & More - POLITICO.com

Feds suggest anti-Muslim speech can be punished
By BYRON TAU | 5/31/13 5:26 PM EDT


A U.S. attorney in Tennessee is reportedly vowing to use federal civil rights statutes to clamp down on offensive and inflammatory speech about Islam.
Bill Killian, U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Tennessee, was quoted by the Tullahoma News this week suggesting that some inflammatory material on Islam might run afoul of federal civil rights laws.
"We need to educate people about Muslims and their civil rights, and as long as we’re here, they’re going to be protected," Killian told the newspaper.
Killian, along with the FBI special agent that runs the Knoxville office, are set to speak next week to a special meeting with the local Muslim community, informing them about their rights under federal law.
"This is an educational effort with civil rights laws as they play into freedom of religion and exercising freedom of religion," Killian said about the meeting. "This is also to inform the public what federal laws are in effect and what the consequences are."
Killian pointed to a recent controversy where a local Tennessee politician posted a photo of a man aiming a shotgun at the camera with the caption "How to wink at a Muslim."
"If a Muslim had posted ‘How to Wink at a Christian,’ could you imagine what would have happened?" Killian asked, according to the newspaper.
The Department of Justice did not respond Friday to a question about what guidelines it draws concerning offensive speech and Islam, or whether the department believes that civil rights statutes could be used to stifle criticism of Islam.
While threats directed at individuals or small groups can lead to punishment, First Amendment experts expressed doubt that the government has any power to stop offensive material about Islam from circulating.
"He’s just wrong," said Floyd Abrams, one of the country's most respected First Amendment attorneys. "The government may, indeed, play a useful and entirely constitutional role in urging people not to engage in speech that amounts to religious discrimination. But it may not, under the First Amendment, prevent or punish speech even if it may be viewed as hostile to a religion."
"And what it most clearly may not do is to stifle political or social debate, however rambunctious or offensive some may think it is," Abrams said.
A conservative watchdog group, Judicial Watch, accused the Obama administration of using federal law to specifically protect Muslims from criticism.
"In its latest effort to protect followers of Islam in the U.S. the Obama Justice Department warns against using social media to spread information considered inflammatory against Muslims, threatening that it could constitute a violation of civil rights," the group wrote in a blog post.
In recent years, the federal government has faced difficult questions about how to respond to material posted about Islam and the Prophet Muhammed — especially when the content causes riots or attacks abroad.
In 2010, a Christian pastor in Florida, Terry Jones, made international news when he threatened to burn 200 copies of the Koran on the ninth anniversary of the September 11th attacks.
The federal government admitted it was powerless to stop Jones, though President Barack Obama condemned the idea. Jones backed off from his September attempt, but later burned a Koran in 2012.
A similar controversy erupted when a Coptic Christian man posted the trailer for an anti-Muhammed film online — causing rioting and an attack on the U.S. Embassy in Cairo.
The Obama administration condemned the attack, while blasting the filmmaker for religious intolerance.


Will Muslims be allowed to continue saying such things - see the words I emphasized:
Calling for Genocide In Your Neighborhood | Human Events
Calling for Genocide In Your Neighborhood
By: Robert Spencer
1/16/2009 03:01 AM
The mainstream media has taken little notice, but at rallies in America and Europe this week protesting Israel’s actions in Gaza, protesters have more than once declared how happy they would be if the Jews were simply wiped out once and for all.
Los Angeles: Muslim demonstrators in front of the Israeli Consulate chanted, "From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free" — a vision that can only be realized by the total destruction of Israel. They waved the flag of the jihad terrorist group Hizballah. To cheers from other demonstrators, some shouted, "Long live Hitler! Put Jews in ovens! Jews are fossil fuel!"
Fort Lauderdale: Leftist and Muslim demonstrators chanted, "Nuke, nuke Israel!" One yelled: "Go back to the ovens! You need a big oven, that’s what you need!"
Toronto: A Muslim protester complained that "Hitler didn’t do a good job." Another shouted at pro-Israel counter-demonstrators: "Jewish child, you’re gonna f****n die. Hamas is coming for you." Pro-jihad demonstrators berated and threatened those who came out to show support for Israel, saying: "I want the war to continue because I want Hizballah to wipe the state of terrorism [i.e., Israel] off the planet….You’re being wiped off the planet. That’s a promise." Yet another Muslim demonstrator said of Jews, "You are the brothers of pigs!" — recalling the Qur’an’s depiction of Jews who disobeyed Allah as being transformed into apes and pigs.
London: Muslim protesters, repeatedly shouting "Allahu akbar," threw traffic cones and sticks at the police and taunted them, calling them cowards, swine and "kuffar" (unbelievers).
Copenhagen: Muslim demonstrators chanted, "Down, down Israel, down, down USA, down, down democracy, down, down Denmark." One Muslim in the crowd ostentatiously made the Nazi salute. Another shouted, "We want to kill all the Jews, all the Jews should be slain, they have no right to exist!" The crowd repeatedly chanted, "Khaybar, Khaybar, ya Yahoud, jaish Muhammad sawfa yaoud" — that is, "Khaybar, Khaybar, O Jews, the army of Muhammad will return." That chant is a reference to a celebrated incident in the life of Muhammad, the prophet of Islam, when he massacred a town full of Jewish farmers. Muhammad led a Muslim force against the Khaybar oasis, which was inhabited by Jews — many of whom he had previously exiled from Medina.
The Muslims also chanted "Hitler! Heil Hitler! Hitler! Hitler! Hitler!" Demonstrators shouted "We must just kill all those Jews, man! Then we’d be rid of them, man!," "Death to Israel," and "Kill the Jews."
Amsterdam: While Dutch parliamentarian Harry van Bommel of the Socialist Party and other Leftist useful idiots marched in a demonstration calling for an intifada against Israel, the crowd behind them chanted "Hamas, Hamas, Jews to the gas."
While not everyone at these rallies expressed genocidal sentiments, it is noteworthy that there is no record of anyone who said these things being rebuked by his fellow demonstrators — or by the authorities in the various countries where these demonstrations took place. Have American and European authorities rushed to condemn such declarations, and called upon Muslim advocacy groups and leaders to act energetically against the rampant Jew-hatred in Muslim communities in Western countries?
Not exactly. An emblematic incident took place in Duisburg, Germany, when a pro-Israel couple put an Israeli flag in their apartment window, overlooking a 10,000-strong pro-jihad demonstration on the street below. During the demonstration, German police actually broke into the couple’s apartment to remove the flag, explaining that they did so in order to forestall the apartment being broken into by the demonstrators themselves. When a police officer removed the flag from the window, the mob below applauded, cheered, and shouted "Allahu akbar."
That same shout has echoed through these rallies all over America and Europe in recent days — the one that Muhammad Atta advised his fellow hijackers to use frequently, since hearing it, he said, struck terror into the hearts of the unbelievers.
Ugly demonstrations have been an unfortunate but recurring feature of public life in America for decades, but open calls for genocide are something new. If American and European officials don’t react quickly now, the next round of demonstrations by the friends and allies of the global Islamic jihad will only be worse.
 

LoAmmi

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People in this country should be allowed to speak however they want about Islam as long as they aren't directly putting a Muslim in danger. People in this country should be allowed to speak however they want about Jews/Israel as long as they aren't directly putting a Jew in danger.

Nobody has the right to directly put someone in danger with their speech, but everything else should be protected speech.
 
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football5680

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We should be able to say whatever we want. Muslims are not a special group of people. They should not get what they want just because they will become violent. If they see that inciting violence works then they would eventually take over the country. At some point you must make a stand.
 
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MagicSabbath

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I'd say he has an uphill battle ahead of him and that it's quite possible he's woefully ignorant as to the USSC decision regarding hate speech and religious protection, as was decided when the court ruled 8-1 in Snyder Vs. Phelps, Et Al

Islam doesn't deserve special right to revoke the free speech rights of Americans. Just because the terrorist variety will kill people in order to shut them up doesn't mean America has to bow to such threats being proffered by a religion that is named for submission and sells lying propaganda when actions speak to the contrary that it is a religion of peace.

Muslims can't even find peace in the faith with one another. They slaughter each other over the Caliphate issue and other articles of contention in the faith, and then have the nerve to argue it's a religion of peace!

Beheaded Muslim women murdered in the name of honor would be testament to what defines peace, and what does not, in Islam.
When a woman's testimony in a Sharia court counts as half that of a man's, and she can be killed in the name of family honor for being raped, peace is a fable in Islam!

While Terrorism is a stark truth.
Those who hope to stop that from coming out by prosecuting those who speak the truth about Islam simply add to the truth about Islam. It's not about peace, or freedom. It's about submission!
Always has been always shall be.
 
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LoAmmi

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We know that. However this thread addresses an agenda related to Islam doesn't it?

So what? If a thread makes it a special point to single out one group, it doesn't mean it can't be brought up that the reason they don't get special protection is because nobody gets special attention. Yes, I get that a lot of people love the Islam bashing, but I don't.

No religion gets special treatment. That is the way it should be.
 
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Zoness

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So what? If a thread makes it a special point to single out one group, it doesn't mean it can't be brought up that the reason they don't get special protection is because nobody gets special attention. Yes, I get that a lot of people love the Islam bashing, but I don't.

No religion gets special treatment. That is the way it should be.

:thumbsup:
 
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TangoSprite

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So what? If a thread makes it a special point to single out one group, it doesn't mean it can't be brought up that the reason they don't get special protection is because nobody gets special attention. Yes, I get that a lot of people love the Islam bashing, but I don't.
No, you seem to enjoy bashing people who speak contrary to what you approve.
That is quite in keeping with the OP's description of the Islam agenda.
 
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TG123

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Under the Radar Blog: Josh Gerstein on the Courts, Transparency, & More - POLITICO.com

Feds suggest anti-Muslim speech can be punished
By BYRON TAU | 5/31/13 5:26 PM EDT


A U.S. attorney in Tennessee is reportedly vowing to use federal civil rights statutes to clamp down on offensive and inflammatory speech about Islam.
Bill Killian, U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Tennessee, was quoted by the Tullahoma News this week suggesting that some inflammatory material on Islam might run afoul of federal civil rights laws.
"We need to educate people about Muslims and their civil rights, and as long as we’re here, they’re going to be protected," Killian told the newspaper.
Killian, along with the FBI special agent that runs the Knoxville office, are set to speak next week to a special meeting with the local Muslim community, informing them about their rights under federal law.
"This is an educational effort with civil rights laws as they play into freedom of religion and exercising freedom of religion," Killian said about the meeting. "This is also to inform the public what federal laws are in effect and what the consequences are."
Killian pointed to a recent controversy where a local Tennessee politician posted a photo of a man aiming a shotgun at the camera with the caption "How to wink at a Muslim."
"If a Muslim had posted ‘How to Wink at a Christian,’ could you imagine what would have happened?" Killian asked, according to the newspaper.
The Department of Justice did not respond Friday to a question about what guidelines it draws concerning offensive speech and Islam, or whether the department believes that civil rights statutes could be used to stifle criticism of Islam.
While threats directed at individuals or small groups can lead to punishment, First Amendment experts expressed doubt that the government has any power to stop offensive material about Islam from circulating.
"He’s just wrong," said Floyd Abrams, one of the country's most respected First Amendment attorneys. "The government may, indeed, play a useful and entirely constitutional role in urging people not to engage in speech that amounts to religious discrimination. But it may not, under the First Amendment, prevent or punish speech even if it may be viewed as hostile to a religion."
"And what it most clearly may not do is to stifle political or social debate, however rambunctious or offensive some may think it is," Abrams said.
A conservative watchdog group, Judicial Watch, accused the Obama administration of using federal law to specifically protect Muslims from criticism.
"In its latest effort to protect followers of Islam in the U.S. the Obama Justice Department warns against using social media to spread information considered inflammatory against Muslims, threatening that it could constitute a violation of civil rights," the group wrote in a blog post.
In recent years, the federal government has faced difficult questions about how to respond to material posted about Islam and the Prophet Muhammed — especially when the content causes riots or attacks abroad.
In 2010, a Christian pastor in Florida, Terry Jones, made international news when he threatened to burn 200 copies of the Koran on the ninth anniversary of the September 11th attacks.
The federal government admitted it was powerless to stop Jones, though President Barack Obama condemned the idea. Jones backed off from his September attempt, but later burned a Koran in 2012.
A similar controversy erupted when a Coptic Christian man posted the trailer for an anti-Muhammed film online — causing rioting and an attack on the U.S. Embassy in Cairo.
The Obama administration condemned the attack, while blasting the filmmaker for religious intolerance.


Will Muslims be allowed to continue saying such things - see the words I emphasized:
Calling for Genocide In Your Neighborhood | Human Events
Calling for Genocide In Your Neighborhood
By: Robert Spencer
1/16/2009 03:01 AM
The mainstream media has taken little notice, but at rallies in America and Europe this week protesting Israel’s actions in Gaza, protesters have more than once declared how happy they would be if the Jews were simply wiped out once and for all.
Los Angeles: Muslim demonstrators in front of the Israeli Consulate chanted, "From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free" — a vision that can only be realized by the total destruction of Israel. They waved the flag of the jihad terrorist group Hizballah. To cheers from other demonstrators, some shouted, "Long live Hitler! Put Jews in ovens! Jews are fossil fuel!"
Fort Lauderdale: Leftist and Muslim demonstrators chanted, "Nuke, nuke Israel!" One yelled: "Go back to the ovens! You need a big oven, that’s what you need!"
Toronto: A Muslim protester complained that "Hitler didn’t do a good job." Another shouted at pro-Israel counter-demonstrators: "Jewish child, you’re gonna f****n die. Hamas is coming for you." Pro-jihad demonstrators berated and threatened those who came out to show support for Israel, saying: "I want the war to continue because I want Hizballah to wipe the state of terrorism [i.e., Israel] off the planet….You’re being wiped off the planet. That’s a promise." Yet another Muslim demonstrator said of Jews, "You are the brothers of pigs!" — recalling the Qur’an’s depiction of Jews who disobeyed Allah as being transformed into apes and pigs.
London: Muslim protesters, repeatedly shouting "Allahu akbar," threw traffic cones and sticks at the police and taunted them, calling them cowards, swine and "kuffar" (unbelievers).
Copenhagen: Muslim demonstrators chanted, "Down, down Israel, down, down USA, down, down democracy, down, down Denmark." One Muslim in the crowd ostentatiously made the Nazi salute. Another shouted, "We want to kill all the Jews, all the Jews should be slain, they have no right to exist!" The crowd repeatedly chanted, "Khaybar, Khaybar, ya Yahoud, jaish Muhammad sawfa yaoud" — that is, "Khaybar, Khaybar, O Jews, the army of Muhammad will return." That chant is a reference to a celebrated incident in the life of Muhammad, the prophet of Islam, when he massacred a town full of Jewish farmers. Muhammad led a Muslim force against the Khaybar oasis, which was inhabited by Jews — many of whom he had previously exiled from Medina.
The Muslims also chanted "Hitler! Heil Hitler! Hitler! Hitler! Hitler!" Demonstrators shouted "We must just kill all those Jews, man! Then we’d be rid of them, man!," "Death to Israel," and "Kill the Jews."
Amsterdam: While Dutch parliamentarian Harry van Bommel of the Socialist Party and other Leftist useful idiots marched in a demonstration calling for an intifada against Israel, the crowd behind them chanted "Hamas, Hamas, Jews to the gas."
While not everyone at these rallies expressed genocidal sentiments, it is noteworthy that there is no record of anyone who said these things being rebuked by his fellow demonstrators — or by the authorities in the various countries where these demonstrations took place. Have American and European authorities rushed to condemn such declarations, and called upon Muslim advocacy groups and leaders to act energetically against the rampant Jew-hatred in Muslim communities in Western countries?
Not exactly. An emblematic incident took place in Duisburg, Germany, when a pro-Israel couple put an Israeli flag in their apartment window, overlooking a 10,000-strong pro-jihad demonstration on the street below. During the demonstration, German police actually broke into the couple’s apartment to remove the flag, explaining that they did so in order to forestall the apartment being broken into by the demonstrators themselves. When a police officer removed the flag from the window, the mob below applauded, cheered, and shouted "Allahu akbar."
That same shout has echoed through these rallies all over America and Europe in recent days — the one that Muhammad Atta advised his fellow hijackers to use frequently, since hearing it, he said, struck terror into the hearts of the unbelievers.
Ugly demonstrations have been an unfortunate but recurring feature of public life in America for decades, but open calls for genocide are something new. If American and European officials don’t react quickly now, the next round of demonstrations by the friends and allies of the global Islamic jihad will only be worse.
The things bolded that some people were yelling at the demos are hate speech. They call for the extermination of the Jewish and Israeli people.

I have gone to several demos against Israel's treatment of Palestinians, in none of them was such language used. The speakers at these rallies always include Jewish activists, and it is stated in every rally that racism against anyone will not be permitted. Most of the people who come out to these rallies are Muslims. When I was in the West Bank, I didn't hear any anti-Jewish talk from Palestinian activists I was working with. There was a lot of anger- and understandable I must add due to what was happening- against the Israeli army and settlers. However, it did not translate into antisemitism.

I think that burning the Quran is as stupid and idiotic and hateful an act as burning a Talmud or burning a Bible. The same for carrying a Nazi or Soviet flag. It should be condemned for the hateful idiocy that it is. I don't think it should be illegal, and it shouldn't also be used to excuse violence by others overseas. There are Muslims who use harsh language against non-Muslims, there are Christians who use harsh language against non-Christians. When misinformation is spread, it should be corrected with the truth and the hotheads isolated by members of their respective faiths, but unless the dingbats are calling for violence, they shouldn't be punished. Doing so makes them martyrs and gives their pathetic ignorance some legitimacy and public sympathy. Why give this to people like Terry Jones or Islam4UK?
 
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Zoness

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I'm familiar with the court case that someone posted in this thread. I think the U.S. attorney that's seeking to rewrite the Constitution in the name of Islam should be investigated for their poor grasp of Constitutional law.

Yup, attorneys can just rewrite the constitution. You found the conspiracy.
 
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pure water

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As part of the society (well, I'm not an American but I do live in a multi-religious country i.e: Malaysia), I support any action to ban offensive and inflammatory speech not just about Islam, but also about any faith, be it Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc and etc.

In fact, we should (personally, I'd say 'we must') ban any offensive and inflammatory speech altogether no matter what subject is about. (But many would argue what is deemed as 'offensive and inflammatory speech'. That's another story but suffice that we know we all have our own conscience that make us think before we act.)

I really can't understand why people need to be offensive in order to practice free speech?
 
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LoAmmi

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I really can't understand why people need to be offensive in order to practice free speech?

Just as you said earlier. What's offensive to you might not be offensive to me. I might never be offended by certain things and people should have the ability to express their views.

If one believes that Muhammad was a terrible pedophile warmonger, they should have the right to hold that view and voice it if they desire.
 
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pure water

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I'd say he has an uphill battle ahead of him and that it's quite possible he's woefully ignorant as to the USSC decision regarding hate speech and religious protection, as was decided when the court ruled 8-1 in Snyder Vs. Phelps, Et Al

Islam doesn't deserve special right to revoke the free speech rights of Americans. Just because the terrorist variety will kill people in order to shut them up doesn't mean America has to bow to such threats being proffered by a religion that is named for submission and sells lying propaganda when actions speak to the contrary that it is a religion of peace.

Muslims can't even find peace in the faith with one another. They slaughter each other over the Caliphate issue and other articles of contention in the faith, and then have the nerve to argue it's a religion of peace!

Beheaded Muslim women murdered in the name of honor would be testament to what defines peace, and what does not, in Islam.
When a woman's testimony in a Sharia court counts as half that of a man's, and she can be killed in the name of family honor for being raped, peace is a fable in Islam!

While Terrorism is a stark truth.
Those who hope to stop that from coming out by prosecuting those who speak the truth about Islam simply add to the truth about Islam. It's not about peace, or freedom. It's about submission!
Always has been always shall be.

I don't know whether you said that because you were angry of what had been reported in the opening thread, but if that's so, when you've calmed down, I hope you know that there are many misinformation regarding Islam in your post.
 
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pure water

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Just as you said earlier. What's offensive to you might not be offensive to me. I might never be offended by certain things and people should have the ability to express their views.

If one believes that Muhammad was a terrible pedophile warmonger, they should have the right to hold that view and voice it if they desire.

Yes I understand that. But even so, why can't we express it in the way that is not offensive? I believe there's a wide line between respectful and mockery.
 
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LoAmmi

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Yes I understand that. But even so, why can't we express it in the way that is not offensive? I believe there's a wide line between respectful and mockery.

It's too arbitrary of a line.

There's a difference between what a person should do and what they can do. A person shouldn't mock another religion, but I believe they can do it if they please.
 
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pure water

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It's too arbitrary of a line.

There's a difference between what a person should do and what they can do. A person shouldn't mock another religion, but I believe they can do it if they please.

I really hope nobody would mock with one another on any subject including religion. But if you think they can do that if they please, then we have different opinion which I have to disagree.
 
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