Is this allowed?

gigagoirle · Jan 24, 2011

I am an eastern orthodox christian and my girlsfriend's godmother is my own mother. Am I allowed to have a relationship with my girlfriend and marry her, even if my mother is her godmother?

ma2000 · Jan 24, 2011

If your mother is her baptism godmother, then no. That makes you brothers.

Translated from Elder Cleopa speaks to us:
NUNTA CRESTINA

Relatives from the Divine Baptism> These relatives are not allowed to get marry until (including) the seventh degree.

The Godfather, if he baptized a child, then that boy when he grows up can't marry the Godfather's daughter, or his son's daughter, his grand daughter. He can only marry his Godfather's great grand daughter. The same is if the baptized boy has a boy, he can't marry (his father's) the Godfather's daughter, but only the Godfather's grand daughter.

Sorry for the poor translation.

gigagoirle · Jan 24, 2011

Is there a legal way to still marry her, like converting to catholiek christian.

Monica child of God 1 · Jan 24, 2011

You should ask your priest for advice about this. It will be his and the bishop's decision to approve the marriage. The bishop also decides how the canons should be applied in individual cases.

I know someone who is married to the god-daughter of his mother. The mother is a matushka and her husband is a priest so it is not like this was done in a clandestine manner. So there are apparently exceptions to the rule in some cases. Therefore, ask your priest.

M.

Etsi · Jan 24, 2011

I thought it was other godchildren of the same godparent that was forbidden?

choirfiend · Jan 24, 2011

gigagoirle said:
Is there a legal way to still marry her, like converting to catholiek christian.

You wouldnt want to do that, because then you'd be leaving the Orthodox Church, which is the true Christian Church, adn that's not a good reason to become Catholic anyway.

talk to your priest, instead of to us. Where are you located?

88Devin07 · Jan 24, 2011

I've never ever heard of this kind of restriction...

If I were married and had kids, and another couple at Church were the sponsors of my children, I would have no problem if, some day, my children and their children got married.

Or are Godparents and Sponsors different? Because I thought they were the same?

No offense, but it would seem kind of stupid that if, since I have a "brother" through my sponsor (we share the same sponsor) that if I had a real sister, my sponsor-brother wouldn't be able to marry her...

Monica child of God 1 · Jan 24, 2011

Godparents and sponsors are the same thing. And affinity is a real concept in Orthodoxy. From A Dictionary of Orthodox Terminology - Part 1 Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America:

Affinity. (Gr. Syngeneia). The spiritual relationship existing between an individual and his spouse's relatives, or, most especially, between godparents and godchildren. The Orthodox Church considers affinity an impediment to marriage.

How it is interpreted and applied is a matter for one's priest and bishop. I think there are jurisdictional differences at play.

M.

ma2000 · Jan 24, 2011

It's probably best to talk to your Spiritual Father.

88Devin07 · Jan 24, 2011

Monica said:
Godparents and sponsors are the same thing. And affinity is a real concept in Orthodoxy. From A Dictionary of Orthodox Terminology - Part 1 Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America:

Affinity. (Gr. Syngeneia). The spiritual relationship existing between an individual and his spouse's relatives, or, most especially, between godparents and godchildren. The Orthodox Church considers affinity an impediment to marriage.

How it is interpreted and applied is a matter for one's priest and bishop. I think there are jurisdictional differences at play.

M.

I'm sure it would also depend, especially on the size of a parish. As some would rather marry other Orthodox, and in a smaller parish, Godparents/Sponsors are so inter-twined that it would be virtually impossible to marry any other Orthodox.

-Kyriaki- · Jan 24, 2011

Not impossible, just difficult. There are ways and means.

There's a cultural thing going on here too. In ethic orthodox cultures, godfamily is treated about as close as real family - Andrew's family have no relatives living anywhere near them (cypriot refugees) but for all family events like Pascha or Christmas they celebrate with Andrew's godparents, godbrothers and sisters and their kids. You grow up with those children as your family, and as pseudo-siblings - it would be inappropriate to marry them. Converting as an adult the rules are still there but I think it would be more likely to be relaxed since there isn't the same relationship history.

Also it comes from the time when it was a form of social security to have godparents for your children - if the children were orphaned or parents unable to care for them, the godparents would adopt them. In this case it would most definitely be inappropriate.

ArmyMatt · Jan 24, 2011

I would talk to your priest, and I wouldn't become a Roman Catholic.

Joshua G. · Jan 26, 2011

My guess is that your bishop won't care. lol

prodromos · Jan 26, 2011

88Devin07 said:
I'm sure it would also depend, especially on the size of a parish. As some would rather marry other Orthodox, and in a smaller parish, Godparents/Sponsors are so inter-twined that it would be virtually impossible to marry any other Orthodox.

For this reason it is not recommended to be the godparent of children of different sexes. If you sponsor someone's son, then do not accept the opportunity to sponsor someone else's daughter later on as they will be considerd brother and sister in the eyes of the Church

Rhamiel · Jan 27, 2011

i have no advice but i will keep both of you in my prayers

Ariadne_GR · Jan 31, 2011

It's tricky but not impossible.

My Godfather only baptised girls and his wife only baptised boys so the issue of godchildren marrying each other would never be a problem. Now technically you are her Godbrother though as your mother baptised her. I would talk to your priest. I wish you luck.

Joshua G. · Jan 31, 2011

ma2000 said:
If your mother is her baptism godmother, then no. That makes you brothers.

Translated from Elder Cleopa speaks to us:
NUNTA CRESTINA

Relatives from the Divine Baptism> These relatives are not allowed to get marry until (including) the seventh degree.

The Godfather, if he baptized a child, then that boy when he grows up can't marry the Godfather's daughter, or his son's daughter, his grand daughter. He can only marry his Godfather's great grand daughter. The same is if the baptized boy has a boy, he can't marry (his father's) the Godfather's daughter, but only the Godfather's grand daughter.

Sorry for the poor translation.

I think we should keep in mind that Fr. Cleopa lived in a country where Orthodox Christians were not hard to find. It is easy (yes, easy) to have lofty positions according to tradition when 8 out of 10 people (if not 10 out of 10 according to your village) are Orthodox. Kind of widens the dating pool a bit.

I agree with everyone here that one should ask their priest about this and not just assume, but I don't think we should worry about the Angels weeping in heaven if a priest (bishop) gives his blessing to such a marriage despite Fr. Cleopa's advice.

Josh

PS: I have a feeling that the poster is about 15 (my apologies if this question has already been answered and I missed it) so I don't think this question, from a practical standpoint, is all that worrisome anyhow.

PPS: I should also state that I am not suggesting that a priest or bishop should not care at all or that one should purposely look to ignore this "rule", but seriously, think about it, if a grown man and a woman come to love and respect each other and one were to deem that they truly were a couple that would create a God-fearing family, it seems draconian at best to even consider allowing this to get in the way. Again, we don't live in Romania. I don't think even many Holy people outside of the West were truly able to appreciate the situation we, in the diaspora, are in, even if they could intellectualize it.

trishshaw · Jan 31, 2011

That doesn't sound like a problem.

trishshaw · Jan 31, 2011

Sex before marriage is the problem...

Joshua G. · Jan 31, 2011

Trish... I didn't see that. If sex before marriage was spoken of by the OP, our apologies for glossing over that.

Also, as much as you and I may agree... are you Orthodox? lol

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