Is there salvation without Mary?

[concretecamper]

.


The language of Gen 3:15 in the 2011 version of the Catholic Bible is different than yours. It reads:

"I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; they will strike at your head, while you strike at their heel."

It's different in the RSV too.

"I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel."

Anyway, in context; the woman spoken of in Gen 3:15 isn't Jesus' mom, it's Adam's wife Eve: the mother of all women; Mary too.
_

Of course, it cant be Mary or else the whole house of cards come tumbling down.

 

[concretecamper]

Again, you twist scripture to say what you want it to say.

If you are right here, the tomorrow when I go to church, I should exalt Mary's name and pray in her name and sing praises to her. Jesus should just be on the back burner somewhere.

Now THAT would be heresy.

You really should learn about a faith that you so readily and wrongly criticize.

 

[Benam]

The Catholic Church since the beginning (Pentecost) has always recognized a unique role that Mary has/had in Salvation. It is only recently that novel ideas like
have come into existence.

I'm Catholic, and I disagree. If anything, the Catholic church has over-inflated Mary's role(s). As others have stated, she has no more of a role in salvation than her parents do, and so on all the way back to Adam and Eve. I also see no evidence that the disciples and earliest church leaders recognized any such role.

 

[WebersHome]

.
I recently overheard a Catholic speaker on the radio tying Jesus' mom into the 2nd verse of the 1st chapter of Genesis. He claimed that the Hebrew word for waters (mayim) speaks of Mary when the Holy Ghost overshadowed her.

It's possible I misunderstood the speaker's intent but I wish you could've heard the tone of his voice when he pronounced mayim; it can only be described as soft and adoring, filled with affection as if the waters were a sentient being.
_

 

[concretecamper]

I'm Catholic, and I disagree

ok

if anything, the Catholic church has over-inflated Mary's role(s

I would venture to say you may not understand Mary's role.

As others have stated, she has no more of a role in salvation than her parents do, and so on all the way back to Adam and Eve

now I am sure.

I also see no evidence that the disciples and earliest church leaders recognized any such role.

read John's gospel. John took Mary as his mother. Read John's gospel. What an amazing gospel.

 

[concretecamper]

I recently overheard a Catholic speaker on the radio tying Jesus' mom into the 2nd verse of the 1st chapter of Genesis. He claimed that the Hebrew word for waters (mayim) speaks of Mary when the Holy Ghost overshadowed her.

It is no accident Jesus referred to Mary as Woman. In addition, the Holy Spirit did overshadow Mary, just as He did the Ark...hmm?

It's possible I misunderstood the speaker's intent

probably

 

[Benam]

I have read John's gospel. Many times. The fact that Jesus asked John to look after Mary has nothing to do with any role in salvation.

 

[concretecamper]

I have read John's gospel. Many times.

great, so have many others.

The fact that Jesus asked John to look after Mary has nothing to do with any role in salvation

I never said it did

 

[plain jayne]

You really should learn about a faith that you so readily and wrongly criticize.

I don't criticize a faith. I am criticizing someone's posts who reads things into scripture that isn't there.

 

[concretecamper]

I don't criticize a faith.

really? Let's see

If you are right here, the tomorrow when I go to church, I should exalt Mary's name and pray in her name and sing praises to her. Jesus should just be on the back burner somewhere

This is an unfair criticism since His Church does no such thing

Wanna recant you post?

 

[plain jayne]

really? Let's see


This is an unfair criticism since His Church does no such thing

Wanna recant you post?

~sigh~

No, I do not want to recant anything I have said. I know this guy from more than one forum. All he does is exalt Mary and insert things in scripture that is not there. I worry sick about him and this is grievous.

I am done. He does not convince me. I am not convincing him.

And I am not convincing you.

 

[WebersHome]

.
● 2Tim 2:14 . . Command them in God's name to stop quarrelling over trifles.

I take it that it's okay to discuss trifles; but not okay to get in food fights over them.

In a Sean Connery movie titled "The Name Of The Rose" church dignitaries assembled a meeting of the minds to reach a resolution on a theological question which was: Did the Christ own the clothes that he wore or not?

Well, needless to say, the discussion turned into bickering wherein nothing was resolved. Tempers flared, shouting ensued, feelings were hurt, and people were alienated over the issue-- a rather meaningless issue; which is precisely what it means to fiddle while Rome burns down around you.

Christians are often embroiled in arguments over things that in the grand scheme of things have almost zero importance while all around them are weightier matters begging their attention.

It's interesting that Paul didn't want Timothy's flock instructed to avoid fighting over trifles, rather, to stop. I can't help but wonder how many Christians think to seek absolution for the sin of quarrelling over trifles when they go to God in prayer.
_

 

[concretecamper]

~sigh~

No, I do not want to recant anything I have said. I know this guy from more than one forum. All he does is exalt Mary and insert things in scripture that is not there. I worry sick about him and this is grievous.

I am done. He does not convince me. I am not convincing him.

And

all this is fine. I just pointed out your wrongful criticism

 

[GraceBro]

Is there salvation without Mary?

is she the mother of our salvation?

our hope?

"And Mary said: “My soul glorifies the Lord and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior .."(Luke 1:46) If Mary is the "mother of our salvation," she would not have admitted her need for a Savior.

 

[concretecamper]

.
● 2Tim 2:14 . . Command them in God's name to stop quarrelling over trifles.

I take it that it's okay to discuss trifles; but not okay to get in food fights over them.

In a Sean Connery movie titled "The Name Of The Rose" church dignitaries assembled a meeting of the minds to reach a resolution on a theological question which was: Did the Christ own the clothes that he wore or not?

Well, needless to say, the discussion turned into bickering wherein nothing was resolved. Tempers flared, shouting ensued, feelings were hurt, and people were alienated over the issue-- a rather meaningless issue; which is precisely what it means to fiddle while Rome burns down around you.

Christians are often embroiled in arguments over things that in the grand scheme of things have almost zero importance while all around them are weightier matters begging their attention.

It's interesting that Paul didn't want Timothy's flock instructed to avoid fighting over trifles, rather, to stop. I can't help but wonder how many Christians think to seek absolution for the sin of quarrelling over trifles when they go to God in prayer.
_

it is ok if you tap out.

 

[concretecamper]

"And Mary said: “My soul glorifies the Lord and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior .."(Luke 1:46)

Mary indeed needed a Saviour.

If Mary is the "mother of our salvation," she would not have admitted her need for a Savior.

she is the Mother of our Saviour. The Mother of Jesus. The Mother of God. You are free to run with these facts.

 

[b4jesustoday]

God saved Her first by preserving Her from all sin so she could bring us salvation!

Jesus is our salvation!

Lk 1:49 For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is his name.

Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; she shall Crush thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

none of satan’s works (sin) are to be found in Mary! Total enmity war! Rev 12 is gen 3:15 writ large

Song of Solomon 4:7 Thou art all fair, my love; there is no spot in thee.

 

[GraceBro]

Mary indeed needed a Saviour.
she is the Mother of our Saviour. The Mother of Jesus. The Mother of God. You are free to run with these facts.

Facts? LOL. Just ignore scripture why don't you? You are talking out of both sides of your mouth. She needs a savior and she is the mother of God. Which is it? She is not the mother of God. Jesus was God before Mary gave birth (i.e. John 8:58). If she is the mother of God, then she is greater than God. If she is the mother of God, who was it that impregnated her? Did she make herself pregnant? Why did God have to send an angel to tell her she was pregnant? She should have already known. If she is the mother of God, why did Jesus say, "I and the Father are One (John 10:30)?" Why didn't Jesus include Mary? Why isn't Mary mentioned when the scriptures talk about God as Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit? How come Jesus said, "I only speak what the Father tells me to speak (John 12:50)?" He didn't mention Mary. I could go on. Jesus also said, "Thus you nullify the word of God by the tradition you have handed down. And you do so in many such matters (Mark 7:13).” Obviously, traditions are more important than the word of God.

 

[doctorwho29]

Salvation is through Jesus alone. End of

 

[concretecamper]

She needs a savior and she is the mother of God.

scripture affirms both.