That's a great question, thanks.This thread made me think of another related issue, that is the authority of the pastorate in setting the mores. What I've been turning over is to what extent is our salvation tied to our submission to the authorities appointed over us, versus where we are free to question the mores from our own conscience.
I think the answer is not a simple one, as Jesus Himself instructed His disciple's to listen to the Pharisee's because they sat in Moses' seat. Though where it gets into issues is the idea that the authority is absolute. I don't believe in an institutional church, and think the claims to unbroken succession of episcopates is a matter of revisionist history rather than actual fact. Yet I know that my pastor is an authority over me, that God has placed him in my life as an overseer responsible for my spiritual development and I am answerable to him. I don't believe its as simple as flipping a switch between saved and unsaved, so I don't think salvation is gained or lost in obedience but I do believe it is essential to submit to those men God has appointed over me in order to fully participate in the salvation of Christ.That's a great question, thanks.
I want to hear your position.
There is only one source of salvation, and it's not an institution.
Apologies to those who disagree. No offense intended.
This is my honest position.
As for not having a mind, or conscience, of our own...
Our conscience is God-given. I think he intended for us to use it.
As far as having a mind goes... If one prefers to be a robot, go for it.
No apologies for that one.
"Are the norms set by God?" -- Great question. That is really at the heart of what this topic is about.Salvation is only concerned with obeying God. Are the norms set by God? Then yes. Are the norms set by men? Then no. Does that mean the norms of men should be ignored? Depends on the situation. As Jesus says if possible live at peace with all men. So if the norm actually matters and it's possible to do so, one should do it to live at peace with all men. How does one know if it is possible? Judging the possibility in this scenario is a function of discernment obtained through faith.
And you obey God by having faith in him, not by doing works with your own hands. The works of men are worthless before the eyes of God. One must have faith in God, and through faith they can bear much fruitYou wrote: "Salvation is only concerned with obeying God." Not so sure... Have you seen this?
Romans 4:4-5 NIV
Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.
It would be interesting to do a topic with a poll to see how many "Christians" (rough percentage) consume alcohol. And how they do so without causing anyone else to stumble. The general question, no doubt, has already been covered. But an UPDATE might be worthwhile.I was watching this earlier and I thought of this post: the guy makes a good point, that as Christians, we shouldn't be doing anything that may cause someone else to stumble.
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How many of the norms/ethics in social Christianity, especially in the west, are set by God?
Claiming they are biblical, or from God's word doesn't make it so. Misinterpretations abound.