Is there reason to be moral to others...

[JGG]

...other than because God said so?

 

[dcalling]

I think when God created us he made it so we want to be moral. When I do good things (or what I perceived to be good things) I feel good. I remember saw a documentary (non-christian) that shows babies seems to know right and wrong.

And the Bible teaches the guys who do not known the Bible will be judged by their own conscious, that seems to indicate we all know right from wrong.

 

[ForJesusChrist]

What else would we do? Be harsh and cruel to everyone? Its not even right.

 

[oi_antz]

It makes us feel better about ourselves. Most people want people to like them.

 

[bling]

There are lots of selfish reasons for doing most anything, besides being totally purely charitable.

 

[Hetta]

...other than because God said so?

Yes. Because we live in a human society where our actions impact others.

 

[oi_antz]

There are lots of selfish reasons for doing most anything, besides being totally purely charitable.

This would be an important point to investigate. According to Abraham Maslow's work, morality is a personal need:

Wikipedia: Maslow's hierarchy of needs

It is important to note from this that morality is not usually necessary to survive (unless it is a transgression is against someone who will hit back). Therefore, if we accept this understanding, morality is selfish even when we do it knowing that we are sacrificing something for someone else's gain.

Please offer your thoughts about this!

 

[JGG]

I think when God created us he made it so we want to be moral. When I do good things (or what I perceived to be good things) I feel good. I remember saw a documentary (non-christian) that shows babies seems to know right and wrong.

And the Bible teaches the guys who do not known the Bible will be judged by their own conscious, that seems to indicate we all know right from wrong.

So, because God said so?

What else would we do? Be harsh and cruel to everyone? Its not even right.

That's the M.O. as I know it.

It makes us feel better about ourselves. Most people want people to like them.

But Christians know they're right when people hate them. There is religious incentive to not be liked.

Yes. Because we live in a human society where our actions impact others.

So?

This would be an important point to investigate. According to Abraham Maslow's work, morality is a personal need:

Wikipedia: Maslow's hierarchy of needs

It is important to note from this that morality is not usually necessary to survive (unless it is a transgression is against someone who will hit back). Therefore, if we accept this understanding, morality is selfish even when we do it knowing that we are sacrificing something for someone else's gain.

Please offer your thoughts about this!

It's inconsequential.

 

[aiki]

Is there reason to be moral to others...

...other than because God said so?

God intended morality to be a safeguard from the corrosive and destructive effects of immorality. He doesn't just ask us to be moral "because He said so," but because living according to His moral guidelines protects us and enables us to live in the very best way possible.

Selah.

 

[oi_antz]

But Christians know they're right when people hate them. There is religious incentive to not be liked.

"If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first."

I think that when Christians go around causing others to hate them, they are ultimately doing it because they want someone else to like them.

Would you say that explains it?

It's inconsequential.

I don't understand what you mean, can you explain a bit?

 

[Sketcher]

Because God gives all rights that exist, and all meaning to anything, I would say no. I'm not saying you can't be a generally moral person, but without God to ultimately give meaning to your beliefs and give people the rights that are taken for granted that they have, it's all just a matter of opinion.

 

[JGG]

The reason I ask is that several studies now (a third on it's way) show that by-and-large, theists do not trust atheists. The running theory at the moment is that it is because theists feel that atheists benefit from a moral
society, while they themselves have no reason to be moral. Theists believe that God is always watching them, thus they have to be moral, but atheists, who don't believe God is watching can do as they please. The theory suggests that theists can conceive of no reason to be moral except that God is watching.

This theory is reinforced here on CF where Christians often ask why atheists don't just go on killing sprees,
why they bother getting married when they will just commit adultery and get divorced anyway, and why atheists are so caught up in drug and alcohol dependency (which I was not aware of).

 

[Sketcher]

http://i42.tinypic.com/16238l5.jpg

The reason I ask is that several studies now (a third on it's way) show that by-and-large, theists do not trust atheists. The running theory at the moment is that it is because theists feel that atheists benefit from a moral
society, while they themselves have no reason to be moral. Theists believe that God is always watching them, thus they have to be moral, but atheists, who don't believe God is watching can do as they please. The theory suggests that theists can conceive of no reason to be moral except that God is watching.

This theory is reinforced here on CF where Christians often ask why atheists don't just go on killing sprees,
why they bother getting married when they will just commit adultery and get divorced anyway, and why atheists are so caught up in drug and alcohol dependency (which I was not aware of).

Fair questions, at least to challenge said atheists's beliefs. I'm not the sort of person who automatically fears an atheist though. I do my best to judge an atheist's character on an individual basis.

 

[JGG]

Fair questions, at least to challenge said atheists's beliefs. I'm not the sort of person who automatically fears an atheist though. I do my best to judge an atheist's character on an individual basis.

It's not challenging atheists. The theory goes that the reason believers view atheists with such disdain is that they believe atheists are rewarded for believers' goid behavior. It posits that believers cannot fathom being moral for any reason except God is watching. Therefore, atheists must not be moral, because if God wasn't watching theists wouldn't be. It shows that theism is not based on love or respect for fellow man, or the betterment of society, but God's gonna get you.

 

[Sketcher]

It's not challenging atheists. The theory goes that the reason believers view atheists with such disdain is that they believe atheists are rewarded for believers' goid behavior. It posits that believers cannot fathom being moral for any reason except God is watching. Therefore, atheists must not be moral, because if God wasn't watching theists wouldn't be. It shows that theism is not based on love or respect for fellow man, or the betterment of society, but God's gonna get you.

To clarify where I'm at, I do my good works because that is part of my purpose as a Christian, it's not a fear thing where I'm hoping that doing enough good works and avoiding enough bad ones gets me out of Hell. Jesus paid the price for my sins already. Now concerning love or respect for fellow man, or the betterment of society, these are part of my faith. But without a God to give these things meaning, I don't see what justification an atheist really has for them. Because God has given rights to people, and meaning to everything and every concept that he created, I have that justification.

 

[JGG]

To clarify where I'm at, I do my good works because that is part of my purpose as a Christian, it's not a fear thing where I'm hoping that doing enough good works and avoiding enough bad ones gets me out of Hell. Jesus paid the price for my sins already. Now concerning love or respect for fellow man, or the betterment of society, these are part of my faith. But without a God to give these things meaning, I don't see what justification an atheist really has for them. Because God has given rights to people, and meaning to everything and every concept that he created, I have that justification.

Exactly. Christians especially cannot fathom why atheists would be moral. They believe they have no reason to. This is why they hate atheists. They view them as parasites. That's the prevailing theory. Thanks for demonstrating.

 

[LilLamb219]

...other than because God said so?

What better way to show love not only to God but to others than by having good morals? God doesn't NEED us to have morals, but it does benefit mankind.

 

[oi_antz]

To clarify where I'm at, I do my good works because that is part of my purpose as a Christian,

Sketcher, does this imply that your moral purpose as a Christian is different from someone's moral purpose as a non-Christian?

(I understand the commission of the gospel is a point of difference, though that is not really what is being discussed here).

 

[aiki]

The reason I ask is that several studies now (a third on it's way) show that by-and-large, theists do not trust atheists. The running theory at the moment is that it is because theists feel that atheists benefit from a moral
society, while they themselves have no reason to be moral.

Some Christians may feel this way, but the reality is that when atheists obey "the law of God written on their hearts" they encounter the benefits to themselves and society that result. Atheists can see the practical benefits of "loving your neighbor as yourself," of not lying, or murdering, or adulterating without having to have a belief in God first.

THe problem for the atheist is that he has no sound, objective basis for his morality. And without an objective and universally-authoritative source for his morality all he is adhering to morally are his own preferences (and/or what moral strictures his particular culture imposes upon him). This means for the atheist that there is, morally, really no true "ought to," no actual moral imperatives, to which anyone is obliged to adhere.

Theists believe that God is always watching them, thus they have to be moral,

Christians don't follow God's Moral Law for that reason but because they believe God's way is always the best way to live.

but atheists, who don't believe God is watching can do as they please. The theory suggests that theists can conceive of no reason to be moral except that God is watching.

Well, this is a pretty moronic theory and one that fails to understand Christians on a fundamental level

This theory is reinforced here on CF where Christians often ask why atheists don't just go on killing sprees, why they bother getting married when they will just commit adultery and get divorced anyway, and why atheists are so caught up in drug and alcohol dependency (which I was not aware of).

Do Christians really "often ask" such things? I haven't seen that happening.

Selah.

 

[JGG]

Some Christians may feel this way, but the reality is that when atheists obey "the law of God written on their hearts" they encounter the benefits to themselves and society that result. Atheists can see the practical benefits of "loving your neighbor as yourself," of not lying, or murdering, or adulterating without having to have a belief in God first.

THe problem for the atheist is that he has no sound, objective basis for his morality. And without an objective and universally-authoritative source for his morality all he is adhering to morally are his own preferences (and/or what moral strictures his particular culture imposes upon him). This means for the atheist that there is, morally, really no true "ought to," no actual moral imperatives, to which anyone is obliged to adhere.

Interesting...

Christians don't follow God's Moral Law for that reason but because they believe God's way is always the best way to live.

Really now?

Well, this is a pretty moronic theory and one that fails to understand Christians on a fundamental level

Not really, you just said just pretty much exactly what they expected you to say:

"THe problem for the atheist is that he has no sound, objective basis for his morality. And without an objective and universally-authoritative source for his morality all he is adhering to morally are his own preferences (and/or what moral strictures his particular culture imposes upon him). This means for the atheist that there is, morally, really no true "ought to," no actual moral imperatives, to which anyone is obliged to adhere."

That's their theory in a nutshell: Christians have to follow the rules, but atheists don't. Seems like their theory is dead on to me.

Do Christians really "often ask" such things? I haven't seen that happening.

True. Usually, you just state it outright, and don't ask. Would you like to see some examples?