Is there really self-hatred among American blacks?

[Lik3]

Is it a brainwashing of blacks that stem from the horrors of slavery? Now that means that what happened that many black people even back in the days had the problem of self-hatred. Was colorism another creation of black slavery? Malcolm X made a statement about how so many black Americans, especially, suffer from self hatred. Could that self-hatred including some black people say that "they are not African", which is true, but when some black people say that, it could mean that we are so far removed from Africa. How come so many of us do not claim Mali and Songhai, yet up and down claim Egypt as there is something wrong with Western African and Central Africa. Could it be because black Americans are largely assimilated or because of self-hatred? I hope that you understood the point that I am trying to make which is how much self-hatred is present in the black American communities in the US. There isn't just racism but a white-ism that it prevalent in the New World, meaning European is somehow better than African.

 

[ScottA]

Is it a brainwashing of blacks that stem from the horrors of slavery? Now that means that what happened that many black people even back in the days had the problem of self-hatred. Was colorism another creation of black slavery? Malcolm X made a statement about how so many black Americans, especially, suffer from self hatred. Could that self-hatred including some black people say that "they are not African", which is true, but when some black people say that, it could mean that we are so far removed from Africa. How come so many of us do not claim Mali and Songhai, yet up and down claim Egypt as there is something wrong with Western African and Central Africa. Could it be because black Americans are largely assimilated or because of self-hatred? I hope that you understood the point that I am trying to make which is how much self-hatred is present in the black American communities in the US. There isn't just racism but a white-ism that it prevalent in the New World, meaning European is somehow better than African.

I would say "self-hatred" is the wrong term. Every minority (including aristocratic whites) suffer a form of "insecurity." Ironically, in the modern world, it is not the first jab that is the offensive jab, but the return (defensive) jab. And, not only is it wrong to call any of that racism - it's a cop out. We are over the difference of race...but apparently, we are not over "insecurity" and the human nature to fight and fight back.

 

[PassionFruit]

Is it a brainwashing of blacks that stem from the horrors of slavery? Now that means that what happened that many black people even back in the days had the problem of self-hatred. Was colorism another creation of black slavery? Malcolm X made a statement about how so many black Americans, especially, suffer from self hatred. Could that self-hatred including some black people say that "they are not African", which is true, but when some black people say that, it could mean that we are so far removed from Africa. How come so many of us do not claim Mali and Songhai, yet up and down claim Egypt as there is something wrong with Western African and Central Africa. Could it be because black Americans are largely assimilated or because of self-hatred? I hope that you understood the point that I am trying to make which is how much self-hatred is present in the black American communities in the US. There isn't just racism but a white-ism that it prevalent in the New World, meaning European is somehow better than African.

It's a complicated topic, because for the most part I would say there is alot of self hatred and yes that self hatred can be traced back to slavery. First and foremost, one has to examine how Blackness was constructed (and is still constructed). I highly recommend watching a documentary titled "Ethnic Notions" which goes into detail of how anything associated with Blackness was bad. One of the main points it drove home was the way Blackness was viewed as ugly. Whereas Whiteness was viewed as pure and good. Also check out that dictionary scene from the film Malcolm X if you haven't already.

Anyways, throughout the centuries, these negative images permeated the American psyche, thus everyone started to believe them including Black people. So that's one aspect of self hatred. Then there's the issue of colorism. I can't say for certain that it was another creation of slavery, but again, you have to go back and look at how Blackness is viewed. Lighter skinned Black people and those who are mixed are in close proximity to Whiteness, because after all, even Black people are brainwashed into believing that Blackness is bad. That's why it shouldn't come to a shock when you have Black people praising the physical features of someone who is light skinned and saying things like "ohh they got that good hair" etc.

*side note* If anyone thinks about comparing this to White people getting tanned and such, don't waste your or my time with that, because those aren't even close to being the same thing. Thank you

Also we can't forget about the history of "passing."

Malcolm X made a statement about how so many black Americans, especially, suffer from self hatred. Could that self-hatred including some black people say that "they are not African", which is true, but when some black people say that, it could mean that we are so far removed from Africa. How come so many of us do not claim Mali and Songhai, yet up and down claim Egypt as there is something wrong with Western African and Central Africa.

I think it's a both. But I do get your point of these "hoteps" are always going on about Egyptian civilization, but completely forget the rest of Africa. Like it didn't have all these ancient civilizations.

 

[blackribbon]

Latino cultures also prize lighter skin...so I am not exactly sure if it is entirely a slavery issue as so much as when countries were conquered by European nations, the lighter skin people probably were able to assimilate into the European cultures better.

My best friend is black skinned and from South Africa. She married a half white/half black American man. His family (the black side) ostracized her for the longest time because she is fairly dark. Never mind that she is elegant, well educated, intelligent, and well traveled. As a nurse who inspects skin on a regular basis, I kind of think the darker skin is prettier because it hides the flaws and irregularities better. I am so white that my blood vessels are visible and every slight skin discoloration is very obvious.

 

[Radrook]

Latino cultures also prize lighter skin...so I am not exactly sure if it is entirely a slavery issue as so much as when countries were conquered by European nations, the lighter skin people probably were able to assimilate into the European cultures better.

My best friend is black skinned and from South Africa. She married a half white/half black American man. His family (the black side) ostracized her for the longest time because she is fairly dark. Never mind that she is elegant, well educated, intelligent, and well traveled. As a nurse who inspects skin on a regular basis, I kind of think the darker skin is prettier because it hides the flaws and irregularities better. I am so white that my blood vessels are visible and every slight skin discoloration is very obvious.

Latino culture includes persons of all races.
European immigration to Latin America was not restricted to those from Spain and Portugal. Germans, English, Irish, Polish, Italians also arrived in vast numbers.
Southern Brazil is predominantly of German descent. Argentina has a strong Italian base. Uruguay is mostly Spaniard as is Costa Rica. The Latinos most visible in the Southwest USA are Mestizos which is a mix between Europeans and Native Americans. These are predominantly of tanned skin color. However there are areas in Mexico where those of European descent predominate and skin color is lighter.

The Mestizo element predominates in such countries as Ecuador, Peru, Mexico, Guatemala.

The Negroid element is very noticeable in Northern and central Brazil, Dominican Republic, Panama.

In short, Latino skin color will vary according to mix and non- mixed segments of its population.

True, the standard of beauty seems to be European.
This is also true of India.

But if you notice, the black Latinos are not at all in a constant state of resentment against Europeans as they seem to be in the USA. Perhaps because the treatment under Portuguese and Spaniard slavery system was much milder and took into consideration their human rights whereas in the USA they were considered mere property and treated accordingly.

For example, under the Portuguese Spaniards system it was illegals separate families. Also, the slave was allowed to work, get paid and save money to buy his freedom.

As for finding physical characteristics more attractive due to social factors alone, I tend to differ on that opinion. East Oriental eyes are often deemed attractive and has nothing to do with any social advantage. A plump round face or a babyish look which is common among oriental women is also found to be attractive.

Among us humans people who have an equine looking face tend to make us feel ill at ease. Piggish faces with upturned noses are also deemed unattractive.
bucked toothed people are deemed unattractive or people who show too much of their gums especially when adorned with stubby teeth. Oriental eyes taken to the extreme are obviously unattractive as are extremes in blackness or whiteness.
The same is true of height. Are dwarfs attractive?

German Brazilians
German Brazilians (German: Deutschbrasilianer, Riograndenser Hunsrückisch: Deitschbrasiliooner, Portuguese: teuto-brasileiros) refers to Brazilian people of ethnic German ancestry or origin. German Brazilians live mostly in the country's South Region,[4] with lesser but still significant degree in the Southeast Region. German dialects together make up the second most spoken first language in Brazil after Portuguese. A few Brazilian municipalities have Brazilian Hunsrückisch and Germanic Pomeranian as co-official with Portuguese. They are located in Southern Brazil and Espírito Santo. According to a 2000 research, there were 5 million people of German descent living in Brazil. [1] Brazil is home to the second largest German-Austrian population outside their respective nations, after the USA.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Brazilians

 

[Cearbhall]

Latino cultures also prize lighter skin...so I am not exactly sure if it is entirely a slavery issue as so much as when countries were conquered by European nations, the lighter skin people probably were able to assimilate into the European cultures better.

Historically, one of the reasons why many societies held this opinion was because light skin meant that you were someone who didn't have to labor outside in the sun all day.

 

[Radrook]

Historically, one of the reasons why many societies held this opinion was because light skin meant that you were someone who didn't have to labor outside in the sun all day.

Umm, excuse me but some people actually consider light skin attractive. It's called personal preference and need not have absolutely anything to do with laboring in sunlight or even racism. In the Latin Caribbean countries such as Cuba, Dominican Republic and Puerto Rico, a lightly tanned skin is considered attractive in women. But even in these countries there are individuals who find white skin more attractive as expressed in Bobby Capo's song Piel Cannela-not because they are racist or because it indicates not working in the sun, but because they PERSONALLy consider it as more feminine in women. There are also persons in Latin American countries who like both tan skin and white skin and it really makes no difference which as long as the rest of the woman is attractive to them. The idea that preferences in beauty indicate racism is lame.

Many women, if not most, find dark skin in men more masculine. Is that racism? In fact, many women prefer negroid hair and features in their men. Is that racism? Or is it simply a matter of liking what you like because you like it? Some white men consider the oriental women and their cattish baby faced look more attractive than the white Nordic woman look. Is that racism?

Most women don't like the round faced oriental man look and prefer the angular European facial type instead. Racism again?

Rubbish!

 

[Cearbhall]

Umm, excuse me but some people actually consider light skin attractive.

Excuse you about what? How does what I said not allow for this?

 

[Radrook]

Excuse you about what? How does what I said not allow for this?

Because you seem to limit the liking of white skin to historical and social reasons as if white skin in itself cannot be attractive and if it is, then it means racism. When the Arabs conquered southern Spain they praised the beauty of the white women in the unconquered parts to the north and sought to include them in their harems. Why? Simply because they found them attractive. Does that mean that they were racists? Or was it nothing more than an exercise of their human freedom to feel attracted to what they felt attracted to?

 

[Cearbhall]

Because you seem to limit the liking of white skin to historical and social reasons as if white skin in itself cannot be attractive and if it is, then it means racism.

No, stating one reason does not imply that the reality of the situation is limited to that one reason. I did not comment on any other reasons.

 

[blackribbon]

Umm, excuse me but some people actually consider light skin attractive. It's called personal preference and need not have absolutely anything to do with laboring in sunlight or even racism. In the Latin Caribbean countries such as Cuba, Dominican Republic and Puerto Rico, a lightly tanned skin is considered attractive in women. But even in these countries there are individuals who find white skin more attractive as expressed in Bobby Capo's song Piel Cannela-not because they are racist or because it indicates not working in the sun, but because they PERSONALLy consider it as more feminine in women. There are also persons in Latin American countries who like both tan skin and white skin and it really makes no difference which as long as the rest of the woman is attractive to them. The idea that preferences in beauty indicate racism is lame.

Many women, if not most, find dark skin in men more masculine. Is that racism? In fact, many women prefer negroid hair and features in their men. Is that racism? Or is it simply a matter of liking what you like because you like it? Some white men consider the oriental women and their cattish baby faced look more attractive than the white Nordic woman look. Is that racism?

Most women don't like the round faced oriental man look and prefer the angular European facial type instead. Racism again?

Rubbish!

It is racism when the family rejects your bf/gf for "being too dark" because they are going to have "dark babies". Yes, I have had friends who have heard this or had hard times "earning" their way into their spouse's families. No different than if you brought home an Asian partner when they were expecting a Romanisc looking person.

 

[Radrook]

I have seen it work both ways. People feeling as if the kids don't look like family because they are too black and others saying they don't look like family because they are too white. To me it seems simply as a matter of tastes is the case n art, food, or any other issue where aesthetics is an issue. If we prefer dogs to cats, are we cat haters? Or visa versa, if we prefer cats to dogs are we dog haters? It doesn't make any sense. Some folks accuse others of racism over a personal preference. Racism involves much more than personal preference. racism involves the persecution of people based on their race. It involves trying to deprive them of their rights. THAT is racism.

BTW
Black people can be and in many instances are very racist themselves. Especially in the USA against other minorities which they consider inferior or unlikable for many a diverse reason. I can fill a book with incidences against me and my family that fall into that unsavory category.

 

[Radrook]

It is racism when the family rejects your bf/gf for "being too dark" because they are going to have "dark babies". Yes, I have had friends who have heard this or had hard times "earning" their way into their spouse's families. No different than if you brought home an Asian partner when they were expecting a Romanisc looking person.

I know a black fellow who prefers white women because he personally finds them more attractive than black women. He feels very comfortable being a black man and would have it no other way. Is he a racist? Some black folks don't like to see an Anglo face staring back at them when they think of grandchildren. Is that racism or simply preference for familial physical similarity?