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Is there really a deep state?

Broken Fence

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Thank you for replying. Very informative. Thank you for response.
 
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Broken Fence

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Thank you for replying. I did not know that. Very informative. Thank you
 
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thecolorsblend

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Do you really trust someone who is so ready to ditch his wife, twice, for a younger model?
Boomers elevated divorce into an artform. Criticizing the Boomers for their fondness for divorce at this stage of the game is a bit repetitive.

 
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Tom 1

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Boomers elevated divorce into an artform. Criticizing the Boomers for their fondness for divorce at this stage of the game is a bit repetitive.

View attachment 279730

Higher standards are, or should be, expected of people who put themselves forward for leadership roles. Maybe you don’t mind, but I don’t want someone in charge who has that kind of indifference to others and a tendency to bail when things get tough. Case in point, Trump’s first crisis, the pandemic, and from the word go he abandons any responsibility, putting more energy into pushing the blame around than doing anything useful.
 
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Albion

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Neither the opinions of various observers from left or right, nor the origin of the term itself mean much here.

But it is a mistake to think that the "deep state" refers simply to holdovers from a previous administration with mischief on their minds.

There are career figures in the vast federal bureaucracy who 1) think they know more than all the elected representatives of the people, 2) feel justified in doing something about it, and 3) may have been identified in the past with one or the other of the major parties, Democratic or Republican, but whichever it was, that doesn't mean much of anything now.
 
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thecolorsblend

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Higher standards are, or should be, expected of people who put themselves forward for leadership roles.
It's funny. I vaguely remember the right saying the same thing about 25 years ago when Clinton's various and sundry allegations of sexual assault, extramarital affairs, etc, were coming up. During that time, the right was told that the President is the President rather than a pastor or a moral ideal, people need to check their values at the door when they go to vote, etc.

It looks like the right finally took that advice. I don't understand why the other side isn't happy about that. Isn't this what they said they wanted all those years? Shouldn't they be congratulating themselves for winning the argument?
 
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Tom 1

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Maybe they should be? No interest here in what either party thinks about the other. The ability to take responsibility and engage in useful action rather than whining and casting blame when under pressure seems quite important in a leader, though. That said, it might be better for Europe not to have the US so involved, perhaps. Time will tell I suppose.
 
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Albion

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No, Clinton committed perjury and was punished for committing it. That is not just something to gripe about -- or excuse -- on theological grounds.
 
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timothyu

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it is the firmly established ‘deep state’ that prevents the US from being too easily derailed by outside influences.
The deep state is an outside influence (a new system) working and destabilizing from within. It takes money and manipulation. How else do you overtake a nation, let alone a world without the need for conventional military force.. They who control the purse strings control the world and I might add finance both sides when they have their puny wars.
 
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Tom 1

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The deep state is an outside influence (a new system) working and destabilizing from within. It takes money and manipulation. How else do you overtake a nation, let alone a world without the need for conventional military force..

Economics, usually. Cornering a market and putting a lot of cash into lobbying and related (less officially salubrious) activities.
 
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Tom 1

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Older would be better. They are already paper trained in the maturity department.

Better would be a leader who understands loyalty and commitment. Clinton was a full on sleaze, but at least he didn’t ditch his Mrs.
 
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timothyu

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You forgot those who contribute the cash to both parties
 
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Tom 1

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And who supplies that cash?

Depends what the lobbying is for: People pushing an agenda by means of bought politicians represent the people who stand to make money from it, and so are happy to invest the necessary funds. Others lobby for foundations, special interest groups, and so on. But you know all of this I’m sure.
 
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thecolorsblend

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Spare me. Say whatever you want about America but we vote our leaders in and we vote them out. So far, we've never needed to depose anybody with a machine gun.

How about the Romanians?
 
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Tom 1

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Spare me. Say whatever you want about America but we vote our leaders in and we vote them out. So far, we've never needed to depose anybody with a machine gun.

How about the Romanians?

Yes, communism was a bit of a disaster. Who leads Romania however has less of an impact on the rest of the world, what happens politically in the US is news wherever you are. With Trump’s isolationist bent though, if he continues in power, it might start to matter less, which might not be a bad thing.
 
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