Ana the Ist
Aggressively serene!
- Feb 21, 2012
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I think we have free will to a degree. Perhaps more like the will to take a different course as opposed to another.
Whether or not its falsifiable or not as conscious beings we are aware of the consequences for our decisions and actions.
We implement moral codes.
I would hope so because legal systems depend on responsibility and accountability before the law such as the Rule of Law. In fact not just our legal system but our ethical codes of conduct and Human Rights.Are we?
Yes but we also have Ethical Codes of conduct, Torte Laws and Duty of Care and. We also have Social norms which govern non-legal behavior. Without the principles of responsibility and accountability this would all be rendered useless.Laws. We implement laws.
I responded as if you said.Of course the tree is still there. Even if there are no eyes, there are still photons (like I already said). You're responding to me as though I claimed photons don't exist if there aren't people to experience them. I explicitly said the opposite.
There is such a thing as light, there is such a thing as photons. Those things exist even if there are no eyes, sure. You and Steve are both replying to me as if I'm saying reality needs an observer, I'm not.I responded as if you said.
If there are no eyes and ears, then there is no such thing as color and sound.
Now perhaps I’ve misunderstood you. Are you saying if there were no ears or eyes, the word color or sound would not exist? Or are you saying what we currently call color or sound would not exist if we didn't have those things. I’m saying what we currently call colors or sound would exist even though we may not have a word for it, because we wouldn’t know of it.
But aren't those photons what we call colors? Sorta like how I call that in my front lawn a tree instead of a pile of atoms?There is such a thing as light, there is such a thing as photons. Those things exist even if there are no eyes, sure. You and Steve are both replying to me as if I'm saying reality needs an observer, I'm not.
But if everybody who experience those photons have the same exact experience, how is that subjective?photon wavelength is real and objective. Color is all in your head and nowhere else. They aren't the same thing.
No. Color is manufactured by our brains. It isn't inherent to light.But aren't those photons what we call colors? Sorta like how I call that in my front lawn a tree instead of a pile of atoms?
They don't, so you're working from a false premise.But if everybody who experience those photons have the same exact experience, how is that subjective?
You're proving my point for me. Bees see colors differently than us because colors aren't a certain way. It depends on the subject. Bees don't see colors correctly, and neither do we. Our brains process light different ways. Color is a product of that process in our brains. Color is not a property of light.For example bee's see flowers in different colours to us and other species because they have different eye cones. Bee's prefer what appears to us as mainly yellow flowers. Bee eye cones are designed to see colours in a way that highlights where the nectar is in a flower. In fact colour seems to be more important than shape.
I would say this is true for all creatures and for all our senses. So there is a reason why colours are the way they are and they seem to fit well with the way each species sees colours.
So why is everybody's brains manufacturing the exact same thing, if it is completely subjective?No. Color is manufactured by our brains. It isn't inherent to light.
Every brain is not manufacturing the exact same thing. Your premise is false.So why is everybody's brains manufacturing the exact same thing, if it is completely subjective?
How is the manufacturing different when everyone agrees on the same colors?Every brain is not manufacturing the exact same thing. Your premise is false.
How is the manufacturing different when everyone agrees on the same colors?
How is the manufacturing different when everyone agrees on the same colors?
That doesn't mean that everyone is seeing it the same.
If we both look at a stop sign, we can both recognise it as red. But what you see as red could be what I see as blue, you just call it red.
If this is true, how do we distinguish color blind people from non-color blind?
Yes colour is the product of the processes in our brain and also a number of other processes and if working correctly will produce a consistent colour range for each species. It doesn't matter how the brain interprets what the colours are. Its the fact that whatever the colour ends up being its based on certain light wave lengths.You're proving my point for me. Bees see colors differently than us because colors aren't a certain way. It depends on the subject. Bees don't see colors correctly, and neither do we. Our brains process light different ways. Color is a product of that process in our brains. Color is not a property of light.
But there is an objective reason why they don't perceive the same colours being colour blindness. This doesn't equate to subjective thinking which is about likes and dislikes for colour and has no objective basis.Because two colours that look different to us would look the same to them. The fact that colour blind people exist at all shows that colour perception is subjective, not objective.
But there is an objective reason why they don't perceive the same colours being colour blindness. This doesn't equate to subjective thinking which is about likes and dislikes for colour and has no objective basis.
The subject is a physical vessel and there can be physical variance in that vessel which can vary results. But that variance has objective reasons. There is no rational or objective reason for subjective thinking about likes and dislikes. 10 subjects could like 10 different colours which has nothing to do with the physical and mechanical processes of how we end up perceiving colours.
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