-
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
-
CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
Is There More to Atheism than Lack of Belief?
- Thread starter Ana the Ist
- Start date
Value judgments are about behaviors. But the judgment does not exist outside the human mind. You have not disproven my point. And where is this example where atheists disagree?
Upvote
0
Eudaimonist
I believe in life before death!
- Jan 1, 2003
- 27,482
- 2,738
- 58
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Atheist
- Marital Status
- Private
- Politics
- US-Libertarian
Behaviors are natural phenomena that have an actual existence. If there is something good or bad about those behaviors, such as their impact on human well-being, that may have an actual existence as well.
The judgment doesn't, but the behaviors and their implications and consequences for human life certainly do.
I'm not attempting anything so bold as a complete refutation, but just showing that it doesn't have to work the way that you claim.
Then you agree with me completely in what I have written on ethics?
eudaimonia,
Mark
Upvote
0
Actions DO have a moral value and those values only exist in the human mind they do not have an actual existence if you disagree, I challenge you to point to a value; where do they exist?So, in essence, you're saying that any action does not have a moral value - the fact that some humans deem murder or rape to be "bad" is thus reduced to the mere result of social evolution.
That would place you in the (B) category I outlined. You are very coherent in the sense that you reject all things for which there is no evidence. Then again, you're also saying that rape and murder aren't bad but just "valued" bad by some people.
Interestingly, I think you'd choose not to rape a hot 18-year-old even if you'd knew you'd get away with it. Why? Wouldn't it be irrational to listen to that pesky guilty conscience? After all, it's as much of an evolutionary vestigium as that belief in God!
As far as rape being bad vs valued as bad what"s the difference? What is the difference between bad vs valued as bad?
Upvote
0
Behaviors do not exist by themselves; they are what people label actions, even though behaviors dont have a physical existence they do affect that which does have a physical
Existence
Upvote
0
Eudaimonist
I believe in life before death!
- Jan 1, 2003
- 27,482
- 2,738
- 58
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Atheist
- Marital Status
- Private
- Politics
- US-Libertarian
Of course behaviors, or "actions" if you prefer, have a physical existence. They are a natural phenomenon.
eudaimonia,
Mark
Upvote
0
Eudaimonist
I believe in life before death!
- Jan 1, 2003
- 27,482
- 2,738
- 58
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Atheist
- Marital Status
- Private
- Politics
- US-Libertarian
They look like people thinking, doing, and saying things, and the consequences of thinking, doing, and saying things.
In my case, the color is pinkish, and the shape is me-ish. A CAT scan of my brain might give more details.
eudaimonia,
Mark
Upvote
0
Senator Cheese
Master of Cheese
If they are only "valued as bad", then that value is attributed solely by personal preference. Knowing human nature, that attribution can then be manipulated to suit ones own needs.
To illustrate this point, assume that a given action has a monetary instead of a moral value. There are two possibilities:
A) The action really does have an unchanging value (10)
B) The actions value depends on personal estimates - meaning that, in some cases, the action can be wished away to just having a value of 1.
My English is subpar. Still, I hope you get what I am trying to say,
Blessings!
Upvote
0
Actions are verbs they are attached to nouns (person place or a thing)it is the noun that exist not the verb. Using your example the pinkish color you discribe is you, the noun the action/verb is you running. Running doesnt exist by itself it is attached to you the noun
Upvote
0
Can you give an example of something good or bad that is not attribited by personal preference?
Upvote
0
Eudaimonist
I believe in life before death!
- Jan 1, 2003
- 27,482
- 2,738
- 58
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Atheist
- Marital Status
- Private
- Politics
- US-Libertarian
Running exists in that running persons exist. It doesn't have to exist "by itself" in order to exist, and it is completely absurd to require that when speaking of ethics and its relationship to physical entities.
eudaimonia,
Mark
Upvote
0
- Feb 21, 2012
- 39,990
- 12,573
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Atheist
- Marital Status
- Married
I just read this post and thought...
"What in the world happened to this thread since I left."
...maybe when I come back in three days this will make sense.
Upvote
0
Empiricism puts more weight inductive logic while rationalism is a fan of deductive.
Why?
Not that I've seen. At best, you're confusing "absolute objective morality" with "morality". The latter is pretty easy to observe in many social animals.
Upvote
0
That is my point! Running only exists when attached to something physical the same for morals; as I said before morals come into being via value judgments/human thought, if you have no human thought morals would not exist because they only exist in your head
Upvote
0
Eudaimonist
I believe in life before death!
- Jan 1, 2003
- 27,482
- 2,738
- 58
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Atheist
- Marital Status
- Private
- Politics
- US-Libertarian
But they don't only exist in your head. They exist in intentional actions and their consequences. Yes, they involve human thought, but they aren't merely in one's head.
eudaimonia,
Mark
Upvote
0
T
theophilus777
Guest
I have something to throw into the mix here, that reverts back to the OP and the thread title. I don't think there can be any debate the the english word "atheist" merely refers to a lack of belief in God or gods. Where the confusion comes in is that it is by necessity a part of an individual's world view. If people were more clear about addressing that when it is their true concern it would help. (Flushing out unstated objections isn't just for salesmen, I guess?)
Either way, atheists have as much faith as anybody else. The difference is the object of their faith.
Upvote
0
Chany
Uncertain Absurdist
- Nov 29, 2011
- 6,428
- 228
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Agnostic
- Marital Status
- Single
- Politics
- US-Others
I have something to throw into the mix here, that reverts back to the OP and the thread title. I don't think there can be any debate the the english word "atheist" merely refers to a lack of belief in God or gods. Where the confusion comes in is that it is by necessity a part of an individual's world view. If people were more clear about addressing that when it is their true concern it would help. (Flushing out unstated objections isn't just for salesmen, I guess?)
Either way, atheists have as much faith as anybody else. The difference is the object of their faith.
Name it.
Upvote
0
Similar threads
