Is there evidence of something beyond nature?

[Oncedeceived]

If for nothing else, be friendly so as to not give people the satisfaction of bringing you down as low as they are. Not that everyone I have seen you be rude to is rude towards you.

I guess Sarah disagrees.

 

[PsychoSarah]

I guess Sarah disagrees.

Well, I have never suffered in a conversation by being consistently polite. Sure seems to annoy the crap out of some of the people who are rude to me though, as if they don't know how to deal with it. In fact, I would go so far as to say that in debate forums such as this, many people seem to want the opposing side to be rude. And that goes for pretty much any topic

 

[Oncedeceived]

Well, I have never suffered in a conversation by being consistently polite. Sure seems to annoy the crap out of some of the people who are rude to me though, as if they don't know how to deal with it. In fact, I would go so far as to say that in debate forums such as this, many people seem to want the opposing side to be rude. And that goes for pretty much any topic

I couldn't agree more but this poster is historically rude and his main purpose is to inflame. Always has been and will continue if we all respond to it.

 

[PsychoSarah]

I couldn't agree more but this poster is historically rude and his main purpose is to inflame. Always has been and will continue if we all respond to it.

I know, I have encountered consol before. Not a fan of the guy, one of the few people that I have encountered on here who I have been more rude to than not. People like him are to atheists as the Tea Party is to Moderate Republicans: absolute poison.

 

[Oncedeceived]

I know, I have encountered consol before. Not a fan of the guy, one of the few people that I have encountered on here who I have been more rude to than not. People like him are to atheists as the Tea Party is to Moderate Republicans: absolute poison.

Agreed.

 

[Shemjaza]

How can the truth be flaming?

It's how you phrase things. An important part of growing up is learn how to be polite and how to adapt to different social situations.

Doesn't the way you keep getting banned from the form and that you have no support from Creationists, TEs or atheists show you that you aren't a good fit for this board and you aren't welcome?

 

[Kunjax]

If I insisted on saying that Santa was real how long do you think you could remain polite towards me?

I have never been banned so I don't know what you mean?

Would I be right in thinking that it is foolish to believe something without first having evidence that it could at least have some basis in truth?

What is this a discussion board or a popularity contest? I thought we were here to discuss creationism and evolution.

Personally, I could remain as civil for an incredibly long amount of time. However, when I'm not conversing with said person, I could think that their position is ridiculous. But I'm not going to say that to your face. And I would expect the same courtesy from you.

When discussing "controversial" issues such as evolution and creationism, if you do not wish to turn people off or even against your position it is best to remain civil.

And if these issues really irritate you so much that you cannot remain civil, I suggest you leave the forum, lest you are subject to a ban.

 

[Shemjaza]

If I insisted on saying that Santa was real how long do you think you could remain polite towards me?

I have never been banned so I don't know what you mean?

Would I be right in thinking that it is foolish to believe something without first having evidence that it could at least have some basis in truth?

What is this a discussion board or a popularity contest? I thought we were here to discuss creationism and evolution.

You realise that you are talking to an atheist who defends evolution right?

I try to maintain a high standard of discourse even when talking to people who are both aggressive and aggressively wrong.

My point is that your behavior is contrary to useful or even civil dialogue.

It is possible that you are new here... but you have a remarkably similar posting style to an infamous repeatedly banned user. So, in either case, keep your beliefs and defend them, just obey the rules and have some civility.

 

[Gracchus]

If we are through trying to hurt each others feelings, inferring sock-puppets, and casting allegations of flaming, can we get back on topic?

"Is there evidence of something beyond nature?"

Lennox did not provide any. He may be a brilliant mathematician, but outside of that he is certainly either a sloppy thinker or dishonest. He demonstrated that there actually are stupid questions. That is not evidence of the supernatural. Neither is it evidence of the subnatural.

If there is evidence of something beyond nature, then someone should trot it out.

 

[Gracchus]

"Is there evidence of something beyond nature?"

The question is ludicrous, if there was evidence then it would not be beyond nature it would be part of it.
Where does damaged thinking like this come from? it has got to be religious in origin.

Not all delusional thinking is religious. Some is political or economic. It starts from nonsensical or even contradictory premisses and so very often reaches conclusions that do not correspond to reality. It nearly always has to do with a justification or even glorification of self. The basis of this self-aggrandizement may be religious, racial, political, or social.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Perhaps but it's predominantly religion based thinking that fixates on the imagined supernatural in an attempt to rationalise their out of this world thinking, nothing fits for them in reality so they are forced to call on the ridiculous to justify their irrational beliefs.

Attack the belief, not the believer.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

That's because in most cases the believer is not guilty of believing those things because of themselves,
they get indoctrinated when they are too young to know what to think, they then carry on believing because they know it's what the people they love would want them to believe, that's how religions operate world wide.

I would think that just the evidence presented in these forums would dispel that notion. For example, there are many Christians who believe in evolution. YEC's are a minority here as well. Over the years I have had discussions with hundreds of fellow Christians. No two held the same opinions or beliefs about anything. You cannot freeze every believer in time at the moment they believed everything they're taught. They move on and fashion their own beliefs on a wide range of religious topics. You are flailing away at a straw man.

 

[PsychoSarah]

That's because in most cases the believer is not guilty of believing those things because of themselves,
they get indoctrinated when they are too young to know what to think, they then carry on believing because they know it's what the people they love would want them to believe, that's how religions operate world wide.

I'd say it was more preexisting belief is hard to remove and requires far more evidence to change than it needed to be established

 

[OldWiseGuy]

That's because in most cases the believer is not guilty of believing those things because of themselves,
they get indoctrinated when they are too young to know what to think, they then carry on believing because they know it's what the people they love would want them to believe, that's how religions operate world wide.

Not really. Creation was the normal belief of most people, even those who weren't religious. That's just the way it was. When evolution presented an alternative to creation many accepted it with little more thought than those who had accepted creation.

 

[Gracchus]

That's because in most cases the believer is not guilty of believing those things because of themselves,
they get indoctrinated when they are too young to know what to think, they then carry on believing because they know it's what the people they love would want them to believe, that's how religions operate world wide.

Social pressure does not just cause children to change beliefs and behavior. Adults also succumb. And if someone harbors disagreements about widely held opinions, they will usually learn to keep their mouth shut. (That's how I survived Catholic schools!) But sometimes, they will actually change what they believe simply to survive comfortably. Brainwashing works in just that fashion.

People often convert as a survival mechanism, or just to keep from being lonely.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I believe in creation because it makes sense to me (other than that I think I'm pretty much a functional person).

 

[Oncedeceived]

I believe in creation because it makes sense to me (other than that I think I'm pretty much a functional person).

I would agree. Creation fits with the reality we see in the universe. We see what we should see if God created the universe.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Which part about the creation makes sense to you the magic part?

Silly me that's the only part there is if it wasn't for the magic it wouldn't have happened..

Creation, evolution; it all requires magic. I don't pretend to understand it, I just believe it. In fact the more science tries to explain evolution, the more I see creation. Strange, eh?

 

[Oncedeceived]

Creation, evolution; it all requires magic. I don't pretend to understand it, I just believe it. In fact the more science tries to explain evolution, the more I see creation. Strange, eh?

Ditto.

 

[bhsmte]

Creation, evolution; it all requires magic. I don't pretend to understand it, I just believe it. In fact the more science tries to explain evolution, the more I see creation. Strange, eh?

If the more you look at the evidence for evolution, you tend to see biblical creation, then that would not be strange for someone with your views.