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Personally speaking, I'd judge the ancestors. Blaming the children for the sins of their fathers has always seemed to be a nonsensical idea.
Oh, wait...
Then why does the left do it continuously?
And if that's aimed at the Christian faith it's just a good example of what you don't understand. Once again I point to the gospels and the teaching of Jesus. You will not find that he judges you because of what your grandad did.
Hello Ana,
I'm sorry for bringing this all up. Don't worry about it. Of course you are allowed to make whatever threads/posts you want, and of course you don't need to explain yourself to me.
I was just being open about my perceptions (rightly or wrongly). I can see you are posting on other topics now as well. Don't worry about me, perhaps I was being overly sensitive. I'm not used to hearing people in a white dominated country complain about all the prejudice against whites. As you can tell by that last sentence I still haven't completely got my head around it. But that is my problem, not yours.
Personally speaking, I'd judge the ancestors. Blaming the children for the sins of their fathers has always seemed to be a nonsensical idea.
Oh, wait...
And I never had slaves not did I take over land from the Native Americans either.
Did you?
While there are exceptions among some who want to merely vilify, in general, the language of privilege has nothing to do with the sins of one's ancestors; but rather the systems of power currently in place which benefit some and disadvantage others.
I'm not guilty for what my white colonizing ancestors did, but I do benefit from systems of power which privilege me in ways that I am frequently unaware of.
Conversely, there are privileges I don't experience.
Privilege and social expectations are calcified in the very bones of culture.
And calling those into question frequently, history shows, don't go over well. Socrates was put to death for "corrupting the youth",
our spiritual mothers and fathers were fed to lions and nailed to crosses because we dared to challenge the norms of Roman society, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr was assassinated.
The powers and principalities always like to maintain a status quo that benefits them. It doesn't matter if one is white, or black, or fat, or skinny, or Christian, or atheist, or Muslim, or Jew--power craves power. As Christians this should be obvious to us, because we recognize the fallen nature and sinfulness of this present age.
What is strange is for a Christian to defend the powers and principalities, merely because they benefit from it.
The way of Christ calls us to take up our cross and die.
-CryptoLutheran
If you are talking about the Democratic party, I don't consider there to be any truth in what you are saying. I expect in USA that white children today generally have more opportunities than minorities and this would be evidenced by the respective employment rates and education rates by demographics.I'm not used to having to consider there's an entire party of racists who would enact policies to deny white children job opportunities, education opportunities, etc.
It can create problems.You mentioned that you were against affirmative action....and I wouldn't have guessed that based on our conversations.
Why? I don't think it's necessarily a bad policy...perhaps with some fine-tuning it can be improved. It's played a significant role in the creation of a larger black and latino middle class since the 80s. I'm aware of the downsides....but I'm curious why you would be against it?
My point is that there are lots of threads about racism against whites but none at all about racism against minorities and non whites.
As my subtitle suggested these were you pointing out what you thought were bad black people or bad black organisations.
I have not seen any threads that you have created about bad white people or bad white organisations.
My perception is that you are against racism as long as the racism is on whites, and against bad people and bad organisations as long as those people or organisations are beacons for black subjugation, and I have provided the evidence as asked for.
Your are not interested in my opinion or perception so I have no idea why we are still talking on this matter. This is the last post from me on this.
If you are talking about the Democratic party, I don't consider there to be any truth in what you are saying. I expect in USA that white children today generally have more opportunities than minorities and this would be evidenced by the respective employment rates and education rates by demographics.
It can create problems.
For example, if a specific race don't have to have as good grades to be a doctor, therefore it is easier for them to become a doctor than other races. A consequence of this is that the public may not then trust doctors of that race because they might be perceived to be lesser qualified. They might then seek to avoid doctors of that race.
I tend to agree....though I must say I'm surprised.
I always thought you were in the "pro-reparations" crowd.
I know you don't believe in systemic racism, but I do, and this ties these two things together under the broader concept of "racism"You seem to be conflating two different ideas...racism and opportunities.
Not all racism involves any opportunities....one could spread a racist belief attached to no opportunities. Disparities in opportunities can occur without any racism.
Are we discussing racism or not?
No, I didn't read that article. My example is something that was happening in a different country decades ago.Sure....and oddly enough, I read an article concerned about the lower standards of performance currently applied in medical degree programs not long ago.
Did you read the same article?
I understand you are discounting some of it, but I still include it as strong and relevant evidence.Your claim was that I overly posted about racism towards whites.
I'm just keeping you honest here. I asked for evidence, and the post where you gave it....you included non-evidence.
This is your arrogance and ego speaking here. You think you are better than others and so you refuse to listen and refuse to understand.You abandon all the critical thinking and reasoning that you apply to god when considering other topics. I don't.
I've no problem in reparations. The Brits took Australia as they did with the US. And the Spanish with South America.
And...the list goes on. And you and I have personally benefitted from the actions of the Brits. I don't agree with what they did or at least how they did it.
But what they did means that I'm now sitting on a piece of rather expensive real estate that I own when it actually belongs to the Gadigal people who were here a few tens of thousands of years before I wandered over (I say 'belong' but they wouldn't use that term. They would say that they were looking after it).
There was an official apology for past wrongs written in 2008 and signed by the then PM, Kevin Rudd:
I move:
That today we honour the Indigenous peoples of this land, the oldest continuing cultures in human history.
We reflect on their past mistreatment.
We reflect in particular on the mistreatment of those who were Stolen Generations—this blemished chapter in our nation’s history.
The time has now come for the nation to turn a new page in Australia’s history by righting the wrongs of the past and so moving forward with confidence to the future.
We apologise for the laws and policies of successive Parliaments and governments that have inflicted profound grief, suffering and loss on these our fellow Australians.
We apologise especially for the removal of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children from their families, their communities and their country.
For the pain, suffering and hurt of these Stolen Generations, their descendants and for their families left behind, we say sorry.
To the mothers and the fathers, the brothers and the sisters, for the breaking up of families and communities, we say sorry.
And for the indignity and degradation thus inflicted on a proud people and a proud culture, we say sorry.
We the Parliament of Australia respectfully request that this apology be received in the spirit in which it is offered as part of the healing of the nation.
For the future we take heart; resolving that this new page in the history of our great continent can now be written.
We today take this first step by acknowledging the past and laying claim to a future that embraces all Australians.
A future where this Parliament resolves that the injustices of the past must never, never happen again.
A future where we harness the determination of all Australians, Indigenous and non-Indigenous, to close the gap that lies between us in life expectancy, educational achievement and economic opportunity.
A future where we embrace the possibility of new solutions to enduring problems where old approaches have failed.
A future based on mutual respect, mutual resolve and mutual responsibility.
A future where all Australians, whatever their origins, are truly equal partners, with equal opportunities and with an equal stake in shaping the next chapter in the history of this great country, Australia
Apology to Australia's Indigenous Peoples
I admit to getting a little emotional reading it. It was a long time coming...but it was a step in the right direction. And now there's move to give a voice to the original inhabitants in parliament. We've still got a long way to go.
So yeah, I'm pro-reparation.
Really? A few 10s of thousands of years huh?
I'm gonna guess the Stolen Generations refers to some attempt to bring the Indigenous to a similar level of social integration as everyone else.
I know you don't believe in systemic racism, but I do, and this ties these two things together under the broader concept of "racism"
It seems for you the problem is blatant racism, for me the problem is inequalities (with regards to race demographics) over many aspects within society.
If you get rid of all the things that you consider to be blatant racism
regarding government policies, hiring practices etc, you will probably end up with a worse off society with greater inequalities.
I say probably, because it seems these things you complain about are put in place to address the existing inequalities.
No, I didn't read that article. My example is something that was happening in a different country decades ago.
Yeah, they've been around a while. If you think of how long they've been here as a year, the rest of us arrived literally yesterday.
And what we did is similar to what was done to Native Americans:
A century of trauma at U.S. boarding schools for Native American children
And integration? There was none. Because they were ignored.
They aren't now. I was at my grandson's school last week waiting for a class to begin and just looking around for a few minutes. There's a small plaque at the entrance recognising that the school is on tribal land and paying respect to past, present and future tribal leaders. It's not uncommon to see that. Or hear it at a public event or a sports game. And there was a map of Australia in the classroom showing all the tribal areas.
It's changing.
If the school is on tribal land.....and the tribe doesn't want the school and would like to bulldoze it, and remove all those of European ancestry, would you leave all tribal land and return to Europe?
As a society we do not benefit from working out what happens to a human identity after death. There is no value is trying to solve that question.It's no different than a Christian telling me that I need an explanation for what happens after death.....or asks how the universe began....and inserts God when I tell him I don't know.
I have never said this, but do go on. Don't let lack of listening and understanding get in the way of your thought processes.I'm going to guess you mean equality of outcomes....not a fair process of opportunities.
Nice story, I'd be more exciting if you added dragons and magic sorcerers and maybe vampires. It wouldn't be any less believable but certainly would be more exciting.Edit- probably worth pointing out that if your concern is about inequality of outcomes...not racism (and no these aren't the same thing) then your complaint about me is that I'm not a communist, or maybe a Marxist. It's got nothing to do with racism. You're quite willing to use racist discrimination to achieve Marxist dreams of utopias and equality. Race just happens to be your proxy for fomenting outrage at economic differences.
If you had simply accused me of not being a communist or Marxist, I'd have admitted to it....the very next post.
As such, I don't see any issue of larger concern at the moment.
Everything in Australia is on tribal land. And we have reached the point where we are welcome to use the land. You reach a point where what happened in the past by, and to, our ancestors is a fact of the present and we live with it.
As a society we do not benefit from working out what happens to a human identity after death.
However since society is made of cultures and races with glaring disparities
and causing social unrest,
we have a large incentive to try and work out what the problem is.
I certainly do consider that my government must act on this. Work out what is going wrong, why are people of certain races disadvantaged and what can be done to address this.
I have never said this, but do go on. Don't let lack of listening and understanding get in the way of your thought processes.
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