Is there an answer to this question?

[Paul of Eugene OR]

Is mass physical?

Any answer to that question would be misleading. The word "physical" is to undefined to be useful in this discussion. Just go ahead and answer the question as to how you know spirits don't have mass. Information, for example, has a minimum (very very small) mass. Perhaps it follows then that if a spirit has no mass, it has no information.

But share your thoughts!

 

[dad]

Any answer to that question would be misleading. The word "physical" is to undefined to be useful in this discussion. Just go ahead and answer the question as to how you know spirits don't have mass. Information, for example, has a minimum (very very small) mass. Perhaps it follows then that if a spirit has no mass, it has no information.

But share your thoughts!

When one talks of mass matter inevitably comes up. Matter is defined as this

"the substance or substances of which any physical object consists or is composed: "

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/matter?s=t

Therefore if something is not a physical object it is not matter, or mass.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

When one talks of mass matter inevitably comes up. Matter is defined as this

"the substance or substances of which any physical object consists or is composed: "

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/matter?s=t

Therefore if something is not a physical object it is not matter, or mass.

Even if we accept as axiomatic that "Matter is defined as this: the substance or substances of which any physical object consists or is composed" . . . I don't see the word "mass" in there so how are you drawing conclusions about mass from that definition? Truth is, your reasoning is not driven by logic but by unspoken assumptions. To you, these unspoken assumptions have the power of conviction.

If you want to convince me or someone else that your reasoning makes sense, you have to manage to verbalize those unspoken assumptions. Its not an easy task. It is also one thing to verbalize an unspoken assumption, its another thing to get others to agree with them. An even harder task.

Lets think about mass. Energy is equal to mass times the speed of light squared. So what does it mean to say that a photon - which carries energy - is massless?

But as for spirits - the correct thing to say about spirits and mass is we are simply to ignorant to discuss mass in relation to spirits.

 

[brinny]

....just thinkin'...

isn't logic finite, like man is?

Thank you kindly.

i meant to add "and limited, like man is?

thank you kindly.

(pardon me, i cannot see what i am typing till after i posted...i'm typing on "faith" LOL!

 

[dad]

....just thinkin'...

isn't logic finite, like man is?

Thank you kindly.

i meant to add "and limited, like man is?

thank you kindly.

(pardon me, i cannot see what i am typing till after i posted...i'm typing on "faith" LOL!

I suspect Jesus is logical. He is infinite!

 

[dad]

Even if we accept as axiomatic that "Matter is defined as this: the substance or substances of which any physical object consists or is composed" . . . I don't see the word "mass" in there so how are you drawing conclusions about mass from that definition?

Mass is defined like this.
"
noun
1. a body of coherent matter, usually of indefinite shape and often of considerable size: "

Now do you see the word matter in there?

Truth is, your reasoning is not driven by logic but by unspoken assumptions.

Once I speak them I guess they are spoken ones However, that which is flesh is flesh and that which is spirit is spirit, Jesus told us. One cannot assume that the spiritual therefore involves the physical.

If you want to convince me or someone else that your reasoning makes sense, you have to manage to verbalize those unspoken assumptions. Its not an easy task. It is also one thing to verbalize an unspoken assumption, its another thing to get others to agree with them. An even harder task.

Using Scripture, which is the spoken word of God is not dealing in the unspoken. Where did you dig up these little terms some philosophy class?

Lets think about mass. Energy is equal to mass times the speed of light squared.

No. Present state energy of the kind we know in the physical world behaves in that way! Energy itself is not limited to the little spectrum of our temporary physical only world. Trying to make the spiritual fit in here is just a wasted mental endeavor.

So what does it mean to say that a photon - which carries energy - is massless?

We need to ask whoever says that! Then we will find out if the spiritual in in their little mind trips.

But as for spirits - the correct thing to say about spirits and mass is we are simply to ignorant to discuss mass in relation to spirits.

Well, to some extent I can do that. Jesus had a new body, and it was physical as well as spiritual. So God can have both work together. But that involves more than just this temporary world and the physical laws we know!

 

[brinny]

I suspect Jesus is logical. He is infinite!

i suspect that Jesus' logic is not quite the same as man's.

 

[Cearbhall]

If love is real how much does it weigh? Because surely every material thing has a mass and could, at least in theory, be weighed.

The weight of the chemicals involved, I suppose.

 

[dad]

i suspect that man's logic is not quite the same as man's.

I think you means God's? You are right. But don't tell some men that

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

Mass is defined like this.
"
noun
1. a body of coherent matter, usually of indefinite shape and often of considerable size: "

Now do you see the word matter in there?

Ah, but that is an alternate meaning of the word "mass". You could say, using that meaning, that you have a mass of syrup all over your pancakes; but its not the same as when you say the attractive force between two objects varies as the product of their masses and inversely as the square of their distance.

Once I speak them I guess they are spoken ones However, that which is flesh is flesh and that which is spirit is spirit, Jesus told us. One cannot assume that the spiritual therefore involves the physical.

It is precisely the unwarranted assumptions I argue against. Such as your assumption that a spirit cannot have mass.
I say let's leave that undetermined.

Using Scripture, which is the spoken word of God is not dealing in the unspoken. Where did you dig up these little terms some philosophy class?

There is no scripture that says spirits have no mass. Where do you dig up these irrelevant ideas?

Quoting a bible verse and then saying it means more than what it says is precisely dealing in the unspoken. You should stop doing that.

 

[dad]

Ah, but that is an alternate meaning of the word "mass". You could say, using that meaning, that you have a mass of syrup all over your pancakes; but its not the same as when you say the attractive force between two objects varies as the product of their masses and inversely as the square of their distance.

Whatever the masses do, or what attracts matter, that doesn't really matter to the spirit.

It is precisely the unwarranted assumptions I argue against. Such as your assumption that a spirit cannot have mass.
I say let's leave that undetermined.

Mass involves matter which involves physical. Do the math. Physical is not spiritual. Flesh is flesh spirit is spirit.

There is no scripture that says spirits have no mass.

It says we are not flesh or physical. No?

Quoting a bible verse and then saying it means more than what it says is precisely dealing in the unspoken. You should stop doing that.

How much plainer can flesh is flesh and spirit is spirit be? God is a spirit. Does that mean He has to be bound to your little attractive forces in the physical thingie?

 

[GrowingSmaller]

Love is an emergent property, and the brain alone is insufficient. It belongs to social neuroscience, and "horemonal bonding of two people" doesnt have a centre of gravity. Maybe?

Also, love horemones are part of love, but not the whole story. So weighing them alone is insufficient.

The questions a bit like asking an impossible question "how much does raisin cake weith, considering just the raisins, but a lot of cakes in a loving relationship...?" Not relaly a logically strict investigation.

 

[dad]

Love is an emergent property, and the brain alone is insufficient. It belongs to social neuroscience, and "horemonal bonding of two people" doesnt have a centre of gravity. Maybe?

Also, love horemones are part of love, but not the whole story. So weighing them alone is insufficient.

The questions a bit like asking an impossible question "how much does raisin cake weith, considering just the raisins, but a lot of cakes in a loving relationship...?" Not relaly a logically strict investigation.

Maybe. But maybe love is a spirit and has an effect on a physical body, and you can only see what is affected

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

Whatever the masses do, or what attracts matter, that doesn't really matter to the spirit.

You don't know that, you assume that.

How much plainer can flesh is flesh and spirit is spirit be? God is a spirit. Does that mean He has to be bound to your little attractive forces in the physical thingie?

We just don't know enough about what a spirit is to say that no spirit is ever affected by gravity. God, of course, as the ground of all being, transcends gravity . . . but also all other spirits.

 

[dad]

You don't know that, you assume that.

Not really. If we go to be with Jesus, as we do, then whatever mass our flesh had or has in the grave will not matter.

We just don't know enough about what a spirit is to say that no spirit is ever affected by gravity.

Gravity is a force of attraction between physical object.

God, of course, as the ground of all being, transcends gravity . . . but also all other spirits.

We shall be like Him!

 

[brinny]

I think you means God's? You are right. But don't tell some men that

Hahaaaa thanks....yes i meant God's logic.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

Not really. If we go to be with Jesus, as we do, then whatever mass our flesh had or has in the grave will not matter.



Gravity is a force of attraction between physical object.
We shall be like Him!

These expressions of certainty about things of the spirit were written by the man who says we cannot know about the past, we cannot know about distant objects in space, and we cannot trust our sciences because in order to do that we have to assume the same state applies and we cannot know that.

The irony is amusing.

 

[Ken-1122]

Why is logic true?

If love is real how much does it weigh? Because surely every material thing has a mass and could, at least in theory, be weighed.

Love doesn't have an actual existence; it only exists in the context of intelligent beings who do have an actual existence.

K

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

Love doesn't have an actual existence; it only exists in the context of intelligent beings who do have an actual existence.

K

You're a brave man, saying that love isn't real.

 

[Ken-1122]

You're a brave man, saying that love isn't real.

Is that what you got from what I said? I said love only exist in the context of material beings. If you disagree, give an example of love existing by itself.

K