Is there an absolute morality?

Confused-by-christianity · Nov 20, 2023

Neogaia777 said:
That last part, knowing how he judges so we will know what true justice is, which is something that I at least don't know about Him right now that would greatly help me get to know or understand Him better, etc. The more you know Him the closer you can be to Him, and I'm looking forward to that, etc. I know some things about Him right now, but don't think I'll ever be able to get to know what makes a person either good or bad, or right or wrong, until I actually get there, and I'm looking forward to that, etc. It will clear up a lot of confusion for me, and I will then know Him much, much more intimately and much, much more better, etc.

Im also interested in justice.
I don't really know what it is.
Some think it's getting what you deserve.
Others say it's about restoration.
Others say it's a protective function.
????
What is mercy???

Neogaia777 said:
Some people think they already know this, but I guarantee you they don't, etc.
And it's one of the things we won't ever know until we get there, etc.

Gaining meaningful knowledge is precious - I probably keep trying as long as i live.

Neogaia777 said:
It will be very interesting to get to know and see, etc, as it's all been very, very confused down here for a very, very long time, etc.
God Bless.

I think so too. thats why im careful about how a treat people and how i talk to them.

Some assumptions i make are:
God is reality, to move closer to god is to be more real. to move further from god is to become less real.
Sin is to move closer to unreality (death). Justice is gods response to sin. the goal is to get the spirit more towards reality again (survival). The spirit doesn't have to go along with god though and can annihilate itself by positively and deliberately choosing unreality. god respects that decision.

???????

I suppose i think of justice as god showing and providing the way back to himself ???

I guess i also dont much believe you can be eternally deceived into hell / unreality / death. i think you have to know, for sure where you're going and how this ends, and choose it - over and over again, so many times, until god agrees that this is what you really want.
???

Divide · Nov 20, 2023

Neogaia777 said:
I don't yet know what I'm going to do when I meet or see God up in Heaven, etc, but I'm pretty sure that, at the very beginning of it at least, I will be at a loss for words, and allow Him to do or say whatever, while I just simply remain in full submission to Him and whatever He wants to do or say to me, or whatever He wants to do or say to anyone else, at first, etc.

I'm looking forward to getting to see or know how he judges at the start or at first, as it will be key to knowing Him much more better and much more fully, etc, and I plan on keeping or being or staying pretty quiet for that until that is all done and over with, etc.

God Bless.

I hear you Brother! I've wondered why we can't reach for that now here on earth. The clues are there, on earth as it is is in Heaven, the kingdom of heaven is at hand, and all sorts of clues like that.

As above so below.

Confused-by-christianity · Nov 20, 2023

Divide said:
I hear you Brother! I've wondered why we can't reach for that now here on earth. The clues are there, on earth as it is is in Heaven, the kingdom of heaven is at hand, and all sorts of clues like that.

As above so below.

The idea that we are in eternity now occured to me. I used to think there was a line between before we die and after. now i think ...

all the perfect stuff is in heaven. perfect music, architecture, knowledge, wisdom, etc etc
genius on earth is when we manage to tap into it and bring it here (the kingdom of god coming to earth).
I thought of that as our destiny on earth.

Divide · Nov 20, 2023

Confused-by-christianity said:
The idea that we are in eternity now occured to me. I used to think there was a line between before we die and after. now i think ...

all the perfect stuff is in heaven. perfect music, architecture, knowledge, wisdom, etc etc
genius on earth is when we manage to tap into it and bring it here (the kingdom of god coming to earth).
I thought of that as our destiny on earth.

If you have been born again then your eternity has already started, right? They say the old man is passed away and we are a new creation, so we are eternal beings in Christ. We just havent been transformed yet into our spiritual bodies.

Being an eternal being isnt hard. They say the first 100 years are the heardest, lol. I bet there will be lots of math in heaven. A lot of scripture is about numbers. And yes, it makes perfect sense that we are already in our eternity. Even when/if we die in the flesh here on earth, it isnt really dying but more akin to being born even more.

To die is to gain.

Divide · Nov 20, 2023

Confused-by-christianity said:
all the perfect stuff is in heaven. perfect music, architecture, knowledge, wisdom, etc etc
genius on earth is when we manage to tap into it and bring it here (the kingdom of god coming to earth).

When I think about this stuff I regret not having picked up any instrument. I cant play anything! And I find the musical arts to be very cool. I bet heaven will have the lost chord that we have been in search of. I bet I could learn in Heaven real fast. I would expect to still have to practice but getting better would be like a whoosh maybe!

Confused-by-christianity · Nov 20, 2023

Divide said:
If you have been born again then your eternity has already started, right? They say the old man is passed away and we are a new creation, so we are eternal beings in Christ. We just havent been transformed yet into our spiritual bodies.

Being an eternal being isnt hard. They say the first 100 years are the heardest, lol. I bet there will be lots of math in heaven. A lot of scripture is about numbers. And yes, it makes perfect sense that we are already in our eternity. Even when/if we die in the flesh here on earth, it isnt really dying but more akin to being born even more.

To die is to gain.

I have so many interests i'd like to perfect ...
gardening,
woodworking,
maths
science
philosophy
music
...
...
...
on and on

I bet angels reckon heaven newbies are small minded by sticking to the above when theres so much more to follow haha

Confused-by-christianity · Nov 20, 2023

Divide said:
When I think about this stuff I regret not having picked up any instrument. I cant play anything! And I find the musical arts to be very cool. I bet heaven will have the lost chord that we have been in search of. I bet I could learn in Heaven real fast. I would expect to still have to practice but getting better would be like a whoosh maybe!

yeah - the lost chord - but for every subject !!!

R.Weeks79 · Nov 20, 2023

This is a someone dumb question, murder, rape, theft are wrong in every culture so you should obviously be able to answer this question, this is not even debatable

Larniavc · Nov 20, 2023

Neogaia777 said:
Were or are any of those regrets rooted in the way you were with someone, or maybe treated someone, or maybe a lot of someone's maybe?

(And this would be at any point in your lifetime, etc)

I regret that I did not spend enough time with nan as she was in hospital dying. Does that count?

Larniavc · Nov 20, 2023

Confused-by-christianity said:
If thats true, it would be heartbreaking - to never experience god's presence is rough.

That's like me saying it would be heart breaking that you have never experienced my wife's presence. As bizarre as that must sound to you is how bizarre what you say is to me.

Larniavc · Nov 20, 2023

R.Weeks79 said:
This is a someone dumb question, murder, rape, theft are wrong in every culture so you should obviously be able to answer this question, this is not even debatable

Antebellum southern states of America have just entered chat.

Confused-by-christianity · Nov 20, 2023

Larnievc said:
That's like me saying it would be heart breaking that you have never experienced my wife's presence. As bizarre as that must sound to you is how bizarre what you say is to me.

You think the presence of god is like the presence of your wife??

Lots of Christian’s would agree. They use the love of family as an example of our future relationship with god.

Bradskii · Nov 20, 2023

Hey guys...keep it on topic please.

Bradskii · Nov 20, 2023

R.Weeks79 said:
This is a someone dumb question, murder, rape, theft are wrong in every culture so you should obviously be able to answer this question, this is not even debatable

Maybe you skipped some of the thread. Murder is by definition wrong. We need to talk about whether killing is justified. Theft? Well, if you steal a terrorists bomb, is that wrong? And rape, again by definition, is accepted as being wrong (don't get me started on exceptions). So it's sexual intercourse we should be discussing. And when that is wrong.

So it's not 'not even debatable'. Because we're actually debating it.

R.Weeks79 · Nov 20, 2023

Bradskii said:
Maybe you skipped some of the thread. Murder is by definition wrong. We need to talk about whether killing is justified. Theft? Well, if you steal a terrorists bomb, is that wrong? And rape, again by definition, is accepted as being wrong (don't get me started on exceptions). So it's sexual intercourse we should be discussing. And when that is wrong.

So it's not 'not even debatable'. Because we're actually debating it.

Killing in defense of yourself or other is obviously not a crime. Killing for greed or revenge would be. Taking a nuke from terrorist is not the same thing as hitting an old lady upside the head and the taking her purse. This still feels like nit picking. My niece does it, she argues about topics and she has a point and then when its shown to be foolish she continues to argue. I think the question is stupid, that is my personal opinion and since I am not gonna change it the conversation is done.

partinobodycular · Nov 20, 2023

R.Weeks79 said:
Killing in defense of yourself or other is obviously not a crime.

That's debatable. It all depends upon what one means by "in defense of yourself or others".

Bradskii · Nov 20, 2023

R.Weeks79 said:
Killing in defense of yourself or other is obviously not a crime. Killing for greed or revenge would be. Taking a nuke from terrorist is not the same thing as hitting an old lady upside the head and the taking her purse. This still feels like nit picking.

That's what forums are for. Picking nits. Seeing what is worth talking about. Disecting it. Investigating it. Arguing about it.

It's a shame you don't want to be involved. Enjoy the rest of the forum.

Confused-by-christianity · Nov 21, 2023

Bradskii said:
Hey guys...keep it on topic please.

Thanks for the friendly reminder.

God's love expressed in the world, projected in family - if you're fortunate enough you could experience ...
a mother nursing a child.
a father teaching his son (who just isn't getting it) - displaying astonishing patience.
Brothers - the highest form of friendship. (War causes people to use the word brotherhood for their friends in action)

I think this is really important in discussing morality. Love.

Confused-by-christianity · Nov 21, 2023

@R.Weeks79 @partinobodycular @Bradskii

Can't we just say there are moral frameworks we are talking about here ...

Social, institutional, absolute, religious

Social - rules that people use to govern themselves that the institutional law doesn't cover. table manners, cutting in line, tact
Institutional - Common law. This covers the law of the country. there are courts and judges - judges interpret the law - like when is it murder or not murder
Absolute - I guess the OP means a spiritual truth - a corporeal law designed by god
Religious - People interpret the "absolute" law

The question - if you accept my framework - is, does No. 3 exist?

Is that fair??

ToddNotTodd · Nov 22, 2023

Neogaia777 said:
I know plenty, etc.

I have a hard time believing that…

Is there an absolute morality?

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

"Encourage him to keep talking. He's hilarious."

"Encourage him to keep talking. He's hilarious."

"Encourage him to keep talking. He's hilarious."

Well-Known Member

Old age should burn and rave at close of day;

Old age should burn and rave at close of day;

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Old age should burn and rave at close of day;

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Iconoclast

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency