Is there an absolute morality?

[Neogaia777]

Well, yeah. Complications such as people being hurt. So you try to avoid that. So it's not that you simply 'Only worry that I might get caught.' You actively avoid causing harm. And if you happen to do so you don't dwell on it.

Maybe I'm missing something here. But you sound a lot like most people I know.

The Bible tells us that when we do do something like that, we should try to make amends, etc?

But I'm guessing no one really even cares to be bothered by even thinking about that for too long anymore now, etc.

So, yeah, sounds like a lot of people I know too, etc.

Bible also said that would also happen also though, etc.

Last days, no natural affection, that kind of thing, etc, etc, etc, so on and so forth, etc.

(Don't worry, I won't bore you guys too much with what the Bible actually has to say about it, etc)

God Bless.

 

[Bradskii]

The Bible tells us that when we do do something like that, we should try to make amends, etc?

I agree. When I say 'don't dwell on it' perhaps I should have expanded on that and said 'make amends in some way, but don't dwell on it. You've made a mistake, you apologise and you move on.'

 

[Neogaia777]

I agree. When I say 'don't dwell on it' perhaps I should have expanded on that and said 'make amends in some way, but don't dwell on it. You've made a mistake, you apologise and you move on.'

Well, even the Bible puts some limits on how far you should try to go with it, with trying to make amends, etc, but with most of us anyway, you usually have to sit with a certain kind of feeling for a while, with most of us anyway, before you'll even get or be fully motivated enough to at least go out and try to do it at least, etc, and do it in the right or correct way at least, etc, to where it's truly honest and genuine at least, etc.

And it sounds like @Larnievc might not ever feel that, or ever try to do that ever at all ever, or so he says anyway, etc.

Maybe he thinks he's never wrong, or never ever causes anybody any unnecessary pain maybe, etc?

And maybe he genuinely truly believes that maybe, etc?

God Bless.

 

[Larniavc]

Because I'm betting you never feel shame or regret either, etc.

Not shame but there are things I regret.

 

[Larniavc]

I don't think you’re a sociopath though, but I do maybe suspect just a hint of dishonesty on your part maybe, etc.

How very kind of you. I hope that makes you feel better.

 

[Larniavc]

Maybe I'm missing something here. But you sound a lot like most people I know.

Totally. I think a lot of people are, if only they would be more honest with themselves.

 

[Neogaia777]

Not shame but there are things I regret.

Were or are any of those regrets rooted in the way you were with someone, or maybe treated someone, or maybe a lot of someone's maybe?

(And this would be at any point in your lifetime, etc)

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

I have a lot of confusion in the terms moral and ethical.

I thought of ethics as a framework of social rules and laws that a group creates. If you break the rule or law, they think you're "wrong".
(Of course - the law could be stupid and evil or wise and good. I consider evil & good, stupid and wise as terms that are associated with "morality" but not ethics).

I thought of morals as good and evil. Morals value goodness and chases after it.
(Evil is error that we can all make. Sin is to keep on doing the evil thing after you know it's evil - commiting evil with awareness).

I'm almost certainly getting the above wrong - I need to study it more.

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

Not shame but there are things I regret.

I don't think shame is an honorable reason to act good.

You might feel it but it's not a good motivation.

Shame and fear both are not good reasons to love.

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

... but with most of us anyway, you usually have to sit with a certain kind of feeling for a while, with most of us anyway, before you'll even get or be fully motivated enough to at least go out and try to do it ...

I do this a lot - or try to. I contemplate all good things and sit with it if i can.
I've found more effective is to love others and that increases god's presence, which is more motivating.
but contemplation of the good is also a valueable motivator.

And it sounds like @Larnievc might not ever feel that, or ever try to do that ever at all ever, or so he says anyway, etc.

If thats true, it would be heartbreaking - to never experience god's presence is rough.
When i find that happening in someones life, i give them an experience of god by loving them, then, they have something to draw from when contemplating.

And maybe he genuinely truly believes that maybe, etc?

Im certain we all have error in some form or another.
I'm pretty sure we all genuinely, truely believe our error is correct as well haha

 

[Neogaia777]

I don't think shame is an honorable reason to act good.

You might feel it but it's not a good motivation.

Shame and fear both are not good reasons to love.

There are times when feeling a certain kind of embarrassment over or about something can sometimes be a good thing sometimes, as it can teach you a little bit about humility, which is a good Godly thing for us humans, as it can keep our pride, or the kind of pride God hates in us humans, in check, etc, and it is also the kind of pride that is not very good for us either, as well, etc. In that kind of situation sometimes a little bit of mild embarrassment can sometimes be a good thing sometimes, etc.

God Bless.

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

There are times when feeling a certain kind of embarrassment over or about something can sometimes be a good thing sometimes, as it can teach you a little bit about humility, which is a good Godly thing for us humans, as it can keep our pride, or the kind of pride God hates in us humans, in check, etc, and it is also the kind of pride that is not good for us as well, etc.

God Bless.

Yeah - cultivating humility is good - agreed.

I suppose everyone has their technique for cultivating spiritual virtues.

Personally - mine is to recognise and adore humility, which i think is a spiritual virtue, and valueable because it's an attribute from god. I then chase after it and try to incorporate it into my life and thinking. i think i have god's spirit in me - who acts as a guide.

Witnessing pride and identifying it (without judging the person) is good for providing contrast in comparison.

I personally no longer employ shame to leverage character growth.
There are 2 reasons for this...

1) Fear and shame are not the best reasons to do good. "I love god because i'm afraid of hell" or "I am sorry because i feel shame" - more noble is to say "i love god because he is good and worthy" or "i am sorry because i understand i have harmed your spiritual growth - and you have dignity and value"
2) I do not want to draw attention to shame, fear, evil and anything bad. I only want to draw attention to the good and to god. So i do my best to speak in the positive and the good.

 

[Neogaia777]

Yeah - cultivating humility is good - agreed.

I suppose everyone has their technique for cultivating spiritual virtues.

Personally - mine is to recognise and adore humility, which i think is a spiritual virtue, and valueable because it's an attribute from god. I then chase after it and try to incorporate it into my life and thinking. i think i have god's spirit in me - who acts as a guide.

Witnessing pride and identifying it (without judging the person) is good for providing contrast in comparison.

I personally no longer employ shame to leverage character growth.

Some sources of shame are downright evil, etc.

But not all sources of just some mild embarrassment sometimes are not always evil, etc.

And if you can always pretty much recognize the difference, then you're doing pretty good, etc.

God Bless.

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

Some sources of shame are downright evil, etc.

I wonder if the whole technique of shame instituted change is purely animalistic and evolutionary - where we should be spiritual, higher looking and chasing ideals of virtues???

But not all sources of just some mild embarrassment sometimes are not always evil, etc.

I guess mild embarrassment is associated with social conventions and taboos.

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

I might join in here...

Do you know you are doing wrong when you do it? Because conscience, although it often kicks in post fact ('Gee, I shouldn't have done that - I feel guilty'), it's also available prior to the fact. So we think 'Gee, I shouldn't do that - I will feel guilty'. Notwithstanding that someone may suffer as a result.

An idea i use - i don't know if it's right or not ...
evil - this is error. your conscience doesn't kick in but it's still evil because harms everyone (albeit unintentionally). You just don't know any better.
sin - this is evil when you know better. this is hard to overcome. it requires a lot of maturity and character growth.

I think we all have a part of the spirit of god within us that helps us.

 

[Neogaia777]

I wonder if the whole technique of shame instituted change is purely animalistic and evolutionary - where we should be spiritual, higher looking and chasing ideals of virtues???


I guess mild embarrassment is associated with social conventions and taboos.

I sometimes experience mild embarrassment when I know that I was acting kind of arrogantly, or in too much haste without thinking a thing through well enough first. In that case, I think it's correction from God in my part, in order to give me an opportunity to learn from that, or correct that, etc.

But the way this world tries to shame us sometimes, is just downright evil, etc, and can only lead to only very much more greater, and very much more bad, and very much more worse, way worse things, etc.

It's important to be able to know and recognize the difference, etc.

One you want to always submit to, but the other you do not ever, etc.

God Bless.

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

I sometimes experience mild embarrassment when I know that I was acting kind of arrogantly, or in too much haste without thinking a thing through well enough first. In that case, I think it's correction from God in my part, in order to give me an opportunity to learn from that, or correct that, etc.

If you see god - up in heaven. Would you feel like:

1) shouting and pointing that he is perfect, good, worthy and beyond your expression? you cant tell him in words how good he is so i'll do it in loving others and being like you. (basically - this is worship???)

2) I'm really ashamed in your light and love??

I'm sure we feel both but i reckon we are supposed to outgrow No. 2 and only have No. 1.

Perhaps i conceive of perfect worship as being without shame or guilt - just purely of my own, uncoerced freewill

But the way this world tries to shame us sometimes, is just downright evil, etc, and can only lead to only very much more greater, and very much more bad, and very much more worse, way worse things, etc.

True

I sometimes experience mild embarrassment when I know that I was acting kind of arrogantly ...

Me too.
I haven't reached my own standard of true worship yet. haha

 

[Neogaia777]

If you see god - up in heaven. Would you feel like:

1) shouting and pointing that he is perfect, good, worthy and beyond your expression? you cant tell him in words how good he is so i'll do it in loving others and being like you. (basically - this is worship???)

2) I'm really ashamed in your light and love??

I'm sure we feel both but i reckon we are supposed to outgrow No. 2 and only have No. 1


True

I don't yet know what I'm going to do when I meet or see God up in Heaven, etc, but I'm pretty sure that, at the very beginning of it at least, I will be at a loss for words, and allow Him to do or say whatever, while I just simply remain in full submission to Him and whatever He wants to do or say to me, or whatever He wants to do or say to anyone else, at first, etc.

I'm looking forward to getting to see or know how he judges at the start or at first, as it will be key to knowing Him much more better and much more fully, etc, and I plan on keeping or being or staying pretty quiet for that until that is all done and over with, etc.

God Bless.

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

I don't yet know what I'm going to do when I meet or see God up in Heaven, etc, but I'm pretty sure that, at the very beginning of it at least, I will be at a loss for words,

You'll probably pull a funny face haha

and allow Him to do or say whatever, while I just simply remain in full submission to Him and whatever He wants to do or say to me, or whatever He wants to do or say to anyone else, at first, etc.

Speaking of humility ... i learned something watching my hamster hahaha
he had limited capacity to know, see, or understand me. he'd be looking right at me and certainly not know me in my entirety. he knew bits and bobs. I doubt he even had the brainpower to process much more than a few things about me. I guess i figured that's like us looking at god. we understand perhaps 1 or 2 pixels on an entire screen. Our job is to grow into a being that can see 3-4 pixels, 5-6 pixels and so on.

My point is - i guess we are surrounded by god, and looking at him now, all the time. we just cant see him fully yet.
I suppose that is part of our job - grow to see more and more of god

I'm looking forward to getting to see or know how he judges at the start or at first, as it will be key to knowing Him much more better and much more fully, etc, and I plan on keeping or being or staying pretty quiet for that until that is all done and over with, etc.

You're most interested in exploring his judgements ??
Understanding them would do us really well.

 

[Neogaia777]

You're most interested in exploring his judgements ??
Understanding them would do us really well.

That last part, knowing how he judges so we will know what true justice is, which is something that I at least don't know about Him right now that would greatly help me get to know or understand Him better, etc. The more you know Him the closer you can be to Him, and I'm looking forward to that, etc. I know some things about Him right now, but don't think I'll ever be able to get to know what makes a person either good or bad, or right or wrong, until I actually get there, and I'm looking forward to that, etc. It will clear up a lot of confusion for me, and I will then know Him much, much more intimately and much, much more better, etc.

Some people think they already know this, but I guarantee you they don't, etc.

And it's one of the things we won't ever know until we get there, etc.

It will be very interesting to get to know and see, etc, as it's all been very, very confused down here for a very, very long time, etc.

God Bless.