Is there a such thing as a sunday obligation in Orthodoxy?

[MariaRegina]

Are the 10 commandments no longer in force?

What ever happened to the commandment which states:

Remember to keep holy the Lord's Day.

 

[Matrona]

It isn't a mortal sin if you miss Mass in the RCC because you overslept. However, this is virtually impossible to do, as in the RCC, there are usually multiple Mass times, including one in the evening at many parishes.

I intended "oversleeping" to indicate 'sloth'. That's definitely a sin.

 

[VickiY]

Per the canons, if you bring a dog into an Orthodox church building, it has to be reconsecrated.

I don't put much stock by individual (non-dogmatic) canons.

And a beautiful thing that is, too...or we'd have pets all over like some of the ECUSA churches do...

 

[drewmeister2]

I intended "oversleeping" to indicate 'sloth'. That's definitely a sin.

Oh, thanks for clarifying, sorry about that .

 

[MariaRegina]

I intended "oversleeping" to indicate 'sloth'. That's definitely a sin.

Now that is a big difference.

One oversleeps generally because one is tired, or coming down with the flu.

Not enough sleep the night before?

So oversleeping could be caused by staying on CF too late ... or celebrating with lots of alcohol at a party ... in that case it would be a sin too.

 

[MariaRegina]

I thought that there is an examination of conscience in A POCKET PRAYER BOOK FOR ORTHODOX CHRISTIANS - you know, that little red pocketbook which all good Antiochian Christians are to pray daily.

Ah! I found it starting with page 38 --

In that little red book, it mentions under the SECOND COMMANDMENT:

Have I been irreverent during Church Services, let my attention wander, or been insincere?

Have I neglected to receive Holy Communion regularly or without due preparation?

Under the FOURTH COMMANDMENT, this little red gem mentions,

"Have I stayed away from Church on Sundays or prevented others from going?

Have I done unnecessary work on Sundays?

Have I spent the day in unwholesome fashion or profaned it by improper conduct?

If I could not go to Church because of ilness or other grave cause, have I prayed at home?

Have I caused anyone else to profane the Lord's Day?

Have I kept the Fasts and Festivals prescribed by the Church?

These teachings found in the little red book sure sound like obligations to me ... that we are expected to confess if we have failed to observe them.

After all they are from the 10 commandments.

 

[Khaleas]

Per the canons, if you bring a dog into an Orthodox church building, it has to be reconsecrated.

I don't put much stock by individual (non-dogmatic) canons.

couldn't resist...

 

[Matrona]

And a beautiful thing that is, too...or we'd have pets all over like some of the ECUSA churches do...

One can bring cats into Orthodox churches as much as one likes, though. That's the point--it's an arbitrary, dead canon.

'Course, it could explain why cats are a favored pet of monastics.

 

[Matrona]

When we say "Sunday Obligation" within Orthodoxy it is an entirely different connotation than the Roman Catholic Church holds.

That was exactly my point in insisting that Orthodox do not have a "Sunday obligation," to avoid confusion with the Roman Catholic "Sunday obligation".

It seems that this somehow confused you into thinking that I was arguing that attendance at the services was unnecessary. This is a completely erroneous interpretation of my position, as I have repeatedly tried to point out. I fear it might even be an indicator of the practice of eisegesis. Fortunately, it appears most TAW members have properly understood my meaning.

 

[MariaRegina]

Cats help keep the rats away from the church. Those vermin can gnaw on the sacred books and chew holes in vestments. And they urinate on everything in site. And they will gnaw on feet and toes. Monks have to sleep at night, you know.

I witnessed first hand the damage that those Norway Rats can do. They are simply horrid. You don' t want rats around.

 

[MariaRegina]

That was exactly my point in insisting that Orthodox do not have a "Sunday obligation," to avoid confusion with the Roman Catholic "Sunday obligation".

It seems that this somehow confused you into thinking that I was arguing that attendance at the services was unnecessary. This is a completely erroneous interpretation of my position, as I have repeatedly tried to point out. I fear it might even be an indicator of the practice of eisegesis. Fortunately, it appears most TAW members have properly understood my meaning.

In the past, you never mentioned this and we wanted you to clarify your position.

How is it that you can accuse me of a "Completely erroneous interpretation of my position'?

Others have tried to get you to clarify your position, but this is the FIRST TIME you have done so.

The Orthodox do have the obligation to worship. And Orthodox Priests do say "sunday obligation" -- I have heard it many times. It was you who mentioned "mortal sin". I never did.

My priest did say that it was a serious sin to miss Divine Liturgy on Sunday without a cause worthy of a blessing. He expects the parishioners to confess such sins, and so do Catholic Priests. So, what is different? Semantics, that's all.

Thank you for clarifing your thinking .

Thank you.

 

[Matrona]

Matrona,

This is precisely why this thread was opened. In the past, you never mentioned this and we wanted you to clarify your position.

To whom are you referring with the pronoun "we"?

Furthermore, please don't pass the buck. I didn't misunderstand you at all. Others have tried to get you to clarify your position, but this is the FIRST TIME you have done so.

On the contrary, most people understood my meaning perfectly. I just thought I should state it even more plainly.

The Orthodox do have the obligation to worship. And Orthodox Priests do say "sunday obligation" -- I have heard it many times. It was you who mentioned "mortal sin". I never did.

I only mentioned "mortal sin" to delineate the difference between the RC "sunday obligation" and what you have claimed to be the "Orthodox sunday obligation". Whether or not you intended to reference the concept in your original posting is not known to me, but I wasn't suggesting that you were.

My priest did say that it was a serious sin to miss Divine Liturgy on Sunday without a cause worthy of a blessing. He expects the parishioners to confess such sins, and so do Catholic Priests. So, what is different? Semantics, that's all.

The difference is more than semantics, that's why I insist on different terminology.

This is the first time that you have clarified your thinking .. now that I have posted the examination of conscience from the Antiochian Prayer book.

Thank you.

What's really odd is that I didn't read that wee little "examination of conscience". Why? Because I own a copy of that little prayer book, which I use every day, and in the front it says something even stranger:

"Copyright 1956"

Also, it seems the phrase "sunday obligation" does not occur anywhere within the pages of that book, nor does the definition of what Roman Catholics call their "Sunday obligation". How strange.

 

[MariaRegina]

Hey, you know what's really funny? I didn't read your little "examination of conscience". Why? Because I own a copy of that little prayer book, which I use every day, and in the front it says something even funnier:

"Copyright 1956"

Yes, and I didn't reprint the whole book .... only a small part for your edification ... which is allowed as long as one cites the page and the text, which I did.

Also, it seems the phrase "sunday obligation" does not occur anywhere within the pages of that book, nor does the definition of what Roman Catholics call their "Sunday obligation". How strange.

How strange, too, that you insist that the phrase "Sunday Obligation" is only used in the Roman Catholic Church when we are the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. Why is it that I have heard many Orthodox Priests use that term? And why is it that these Priests are cradle Orthodox?

And how strange it is when we cannot copy part of the Antiochian Prayerbook, but you can state that the obligation is not mentioned there.

Well, here is the quote from the Antiochian Prayerbook which DOES STATE AN OBLIGATION:

P. 40
Have I stayed away from Church on Sunday or prevented others from going?

Notice too, that "a cause worthy of a blessing" is not mentioned here .. and so it could be misunderstood by the more scrupulous. This is why a priest should always be consulted.

Now, have I made myself clear. I have been saying this all along. Do I need to say this a fifth or sixth time? Give me a break.

 

[MariaRegina]

Matrona has stated that she agrees that we should worship the Lord on Sundays by attending the Divine Liturgy, unless we have another cause worthy of a blessing. Isn't that true, Matrona?

 

[Matrona]

Matrona has finally admitted that she agrees with the Antiochian Prayer Book in language which is more explicit.

This is a misrepresentation of my postings. Never did I suggest or imply that I disagreed or was not aware of the writings of the Antiochian prayer book, and all of my posts support the assertion that I have agreed with and been aware of the writings in the Antiochian prayer book for the entire duration of this thread. An assertion that, if made, would be wholly accurate.

It would be most wonderful if you would kindly go back and review my postings, and revise yours accordingly, to reflect what I have been saying rather than what has been incorrectly believed and asserted by you regarding the things I said.

 

[MariaRegina]

This is a misrepresentation of my postings. Never did I suggest or imply that I disagreed or was not aware of the writings of the Antiochian prayer book, and all of my posts support the assertion that I have agreed with and been aware of the writings in the Antiochian prayer book for the entire duration of this thread. An assertion that, if made, would be wholly accurate.

It would be most wonderful if you would kindly go back and review my postings, and revise yours accordingly, to reflect what I have been saying rather than what has been incorrectly believed and asserted by you regarding the things I said.

I didn't misunderstand nor misinterpret what you wrote.

However, you appeared to misinterpret what I have written all along. When I said "Sunday Obligation" it was from an Orthodox point of view, never the Roman Catholic point of view. As I have stated many times, my own priests use that term, and rightly so.

You have posted many times before on this issue; however, this time you were clear that Orthodox Christians should attend Sunday Divine Liturgy.

Thanks for clearing it up.

And yes, I have done some editing

Now I await yours.


EDIT: I reviewed this entire thread and as of now, 11:39 pst, there was no mention by Matrona previously (until her most recent post) that stated that the Orthodox Christians should attend the Sunday Divine Liturgy every week unless they had a cause worthy of a blessing. Maybe she thought that she had implied this, but previously there was no such statement made.

Ii seems that I have been falsely accused of misinterpreting her posts.

 

[Orthodox Andrew]

No Sunday obligation? Tell that to my Priest.

 

[MariaRegina]

No Sunday obligation? Tell that to my Priest.

A priest who is worthy of a blessing.

 

[Annoula]

ok....

i was never an attendive (?) church christian. but it was a time that a friend of mine would call me on sunday morning and wake me up and make me go to church...good girl...

anyway... once i was at a saturday night party. after the party i went to a club, and then around 7 in the morning i was back home. i thought it would be my ONLY chance to call my friend so i called her on sunday morning and we went to church together.
i was almost sleeping though...but i did make it there....

 

[Matrona]

EDIT: I reviewed this entire thread and as of now, 11:39 pst, there was no mention by Matrona previously (until her most recent post) that stated that the Orthodox Christians should attend the Sunday Divine Liturgy every week unless they had a cause worthy of a blessing. Maybe she thought that she had implied this, but previously there was no such statement made.

Ii seems that I have been falsely accused of misinterpreting her posts.

"I don't think that Matrona is disputing the importance of attending Church regularly, but rather your choice of vocabulary."

"Thank you for understanding what I was saying, Maureen."