Is there a such thing as a sunday obligation in Orthodoxy?

[Matrona]

There's no such thing as a "sunday obligation".

 

[MariaRegina]

OH, I beg to disagree.

Our priest told us that we must attend Sunday Divine LIturgy unless we had a good reason like illness or the care of a family member, etc.

He would always pray for those who could not attend who were worthy of a blessing.

 

[Matrona]

OH, I beg to disagree.

Our priest told us that we must attend Sunday Divine LIturgy unless we had a good reason like illness or the care of a family member, etc.

He would always pray for those who could not attend who were worthy of a blessing.

That is not a "Sunday obligation". You're not committing a "mortal sin" (if "mortal sin" existed) if you oversleep and miss it one week. One has to be careful when using words and phrases like that, that might cause one to confuse Orthodox practice with that of a non-Orthodox religion.

 

[MariaRegina]

That is not a "Sunday obligation". You're not committing a "mortal sin" (if "mortal sin" existed) if you oversleep and miss it one week. One has to be careful when using words and phrases like that, that might cause one to confuse Orthodox practice with that of a non-Orthodox religion.

I never used the word "mortal sin" nor implied that a "mortal sin" would be committed. This is coming to a false conclusion, if ever.

To tell people that they have no obligation to worship the Lord on Sunday when the Lord said,

Remember to keep Holy the Lord's Day.

is also very dangerous.

I know some Orthodox Christians who don't attend Church because they have the same idea that they have no obligation to attend the Orthodox Church on Sundays, to the dismay of their Priest. They feel that it is more important to attend to their Greek Restaurant. As a result, they are losing their faith snd so are their children.

Do you honestly believe that holding the position you do will encourage regular attendance?

And ask yourself, don't you attend regularly? Remember, that we are laity, and that what we post in these threads is not the infallible truth. We have to listen to our priests.

 

[HandmaidenOfGod]

I don't think that Matrona is disputing the importance of attending Church regularly, but rather your choice of vocabulary. Orthodox generally don't use the term "Sunday Obligation." I don't mean this in a negative way, but that is generally a Catholic term.

~Maureen

 

[Romanos]

I don't think that Matrona is disputing the importance of attending Church regularly, but rather your choice of vocabulary. Orthodox generally don't use the term "Sunday Obligation." I don't mean this in a negative way, but that is generally a Catholic term.

~Maureen

I'll second that.

Matrona wasn't flaming, believe me. Outspoken, maybe, but not flamey.

But no doubt it is important to attend church whenever possible and not just "pop in" a few times a year.

 

[MariaRegina]

Orthodox generally don't use the term "Sunday Obligation." I don't mean this in a negative way, but that is generally a Catholic term.

~Maureen

I disagree with you. My priest does indeed use the word Sunday obligation as we have an obligation to worship the Lord.

He quotes from Father Alexander (may his memory be eternal) Schmemann's book FOR THE LIFE OF THE WORLD that men are created to worship.



Please let's not get into the SPIN ZONE.

Matrona herself mentioned "mortal sin" which is definitely a Catholic choice of words. This is a spin on my words ... which completely distorts what I was trying to convey:

WE ARE TO KEEP HOLY THE LORD'S DAY. WE ARE CREATED TO WORSHIP GOD.

By insisting that there is no need to keep the Lord's day holy, Matrona is giving people the idea that they need not attend the Divine Liturgy. My priest, who is a cradle Orthodox, has used the word "Sunday obligation" referring to keeping the Lord's day holy. We are not even to sew on Sundays in our parish. If we cannot attend the Divine Liturgy on Sunday, he expects to see us on Saturday. Yes, he is strict, but he wants to see us in heaven with him.

Furthermore, I think we should all heed the words of my priest:

Dear Brethren in Christ!


Today we start the Nativity Fast, which is a period of preparation for the coming of Christ, the Anointed One.


The fast of the Nativity helps us to achieve mercy and philanthropy, by abstaining not only from meat and dairy products, but also from selfish desires. As we enter into the Nativity Fast, we remember Saint John Chrysostom exhortation that the fast should be kept not by the mouth alone, but also by the eye, the feet, the hands, and all the members of the body: the eye must abstain from impure sights, the ear from malicious gossip, the hands from acts of injustice, and from showing unwillingness to share our possessions with others.

Wishing you all a peaceful journey towards Nativity.

Yours in Christ, keep me and my fellow clergy in your prayers.

HAPPY NATIVITY FAST TO EVERYONE

Yours in Christ,

Elizabeth

 

[Michael G]

HAPPY NATIVITY FAST TO EVERYONE

Yours in Christ,

Elizabeth

A blessed Nativity fast to you as well, my friend.

 

[Akathist]

[Mod Hat] I split this thread out from another thread so that the two topics could be discussed seperately and to avoid confusion. Matrona's first post here is the first one that was split. She is welcome to change her first post if needed, [mod hat off]

 

[Khaleas]

We don't have 'Sunday obligation'!!!!!!!


What we DO have is a MONDAY, TUESDAY, WEDNESDAY, THURSDAY, FRIDAY, SATURDAY, SUNDAY (and Flursday too if you're my husband ) OBLIGATION!!!

Those are the days of the week we should be Orthodox and all that comes with it. Period.

I do get a raised eyebrow from Father when I have been traveling and not gone to church... but he also knows that I will be back at church as fast as I can after that (last Sunday I went to church right from the airport, missed DL (Father was on high speed, normally I would have come about 30 mins before the end), but was present for the panikhida afterwards).
I'm most likely to miss Liturgy during the week... they start at 7 and if I want to make them I have to get up at 5:30 at the latest... I'm definitely not a morning person. Especially when you have a warm, snoring puppy next to you.

 

[MariaRegina]

We don't have 'Sunday obligation'!!!!!!!


What we DO have is a MONDAY, TUESDAY, WEDNESDAY, THURSDAY, FRIDAY, SATURDAY, SUNDAY (and Flursday too if you're my husband ) OBLIGATION!!!

Those are the days of the week we should be Orthodox and all that comes with it. Period.

I do get a raised eyebrow from Father when I have been traveling and not gone to church... but he also knows that I will be back at church as fast as I can after that (last Sunday I went to church right from the airport, missed DL (Father was on high speed, normally I would have come about 30 mins before the end), but was present for the panikhida afterwards).
I'm most likely to miss Liturgy during the week... they start at 7 and if I want to make them I have to get up at 5:30 at the latest... I'm definitely not a morning person. Especially when you have a warm, snoring puppy next to you.

Yes, I agree.

We do have an obligation every day to pray .. but every Sunday we should worship God by giving Him thanksgiving (Eucharist). And only the Church can offer us the Holy Eucharist.

Father Schmemann's book so wonderfully presents this idea.

I wish Marjorie was here to discuss this topic with us.

 

[InnerPhyre]

I was just discussing this with my priest last Sunday and he gave me a definitive "no." He said that it says something about your spiritual state if you are just deciding not to go to church, but he firmly disagreed with the Roman concept of the sunday obligation (where if you miss it one time you go to hell).

 

[VickiY]

Per the canons (puts on flame retardent clothes) if we miss Divine Liturgy three Sundays in a row without a valid excuse, we can be excommunicated.

 

[MariaRegina]

Per the canons (puts on flame retardent clothes) if we miss Divine Liturgy three Sundays in a row without a valid excuse, we can be excommunicated.

Oh, you are bold Vicki!

Do you have an extra set of flame retardant clothes for me too?




Again, I will repeat, when my priest mentioned "Sunday Obligation" he said that the rules of fasting and some other rules in Orthodoxy don't bind under pain of "mortal sin" like in the Roman Catholic Church.

However he also stated:

ALL SIN IS SERIOUS.

And not to pray is a serious sin.

Not to attend Divine Liturgy for a good reason is also a serious sin because God is due our worship, praise, honor and total obedience.

Whereas Catholics had this distinction between mortal and venial sin, some of their theologians, especially the Melkites, are now beginning to accept the Orthodox concept that all sin is serious.

When we say "Sunday Obligation" within Orthodoxy it is an entirely different connotation than the Roman Catholic Church holds.

To give an example, if my husband is sick, then I can stay home (a cause worthy of a blessing) to nurse him back to health. I wouldn't be expected to leave him alone and quickly attend a 30 minute 7 AM local church service that is only 5 minutes from my house if I were a Roman Catholic. My church is 45 minutes away and the service is 2 hours. So I must leave at 8:45 and then I don't return until about 1 pm. That would be too long to leave an ailing hubby alone.

Therefore, it is very important to define our terms and not assume that a fellow Orthodox Christian is in error or heresy, or we fall into the sin of judging one another.

 

[VickiY]

Exactly..which is why the canons, which are GUIDELINES, say "good reason" and "MAY"...not WILL. (Lends Aria second set of flameproof garments)

 

[Xpycoctomos]

Sunday of obligation misses the point. It preaches to the choir.... as for the canons... I'll leave those to my bishop.

 

[drewmeister2]

That is not a "Sunday obligation". You're not committing a "mortal sin" (if "mortal sin" existed) if you oversleep and miss it one week. One has to be careful when using words and phrases like that, that might cause one to confuse Orthodox practice with that of a non-Orthodox religion.

It isn't a mortal sin if you miss Mass in the RCC because you overslept. However, this is virtually impossible to do, as in the RCC, there are usually multiple Mass times, including one in the evening at many parishes.

 

[Matrona]

Per the canons (puts on flame retardent clothes) if we miss Divine Liturgy three Sundays in a row without a valid excuse, we can be excommunicated.

Per the canons, if you bring a dog into an Orthodox church building, it has to be reconsecrated.

I don't put much stock by individual (non-dogmatic) canons.

 

[MariaRegina]

It isn't a mortal sin if you miss Mass in the RCC because you overslept. However, this is virtually impossible to do, as in the RCC, there are usually multiple Mass times, including one in the evening at many parishes.

Thank you Andrew for pointing this out.

Unless a person is comatose, they can easily attend a Catholic Mass over the weekend.

Unless.... they have just finished taking college finals, moving out of the dorms, and then sleeping for 24-36 hours straight as I did once. When I finally woke up I had to do reading to catch up with the last week's news.

 

[drewmeister2]

Unless.... they have just finished taking college finals, moving out of the dorms, and then sleeping for 24-36 hours straight as I did once. When I finally woke up I had to do reading to catch up with the last week's news.

Wow, lol

The RCC is lenient when it needs to be. I think some have a misconceived notion that it gives no room for slackers. This isn't true. My grandmother, when she was pregnant with my aunt, had to eat regularly for some reason (I forget now). So, the priest dispensed her, and allowed her to break her midnight fast before receiving the Eucharist on Sunday.