Is the seventh day the Sabbath?

[mercy1061]

What does this have to do with the discussion? The only value I see in your post is you got some blessing for it. Whoopee!

Since calendars are only estimates, not the realities, they are published by men.

 

[mercy1061]

I already did.

Which verse(s) in Ex 12?

If they don't give enough of the demanded answers the flunk unless a parent sues you for a passing grade.

They also have to do research and perform calculations.

The same as you.Who are you talking about?

I am waiting for you to post the specific scriptures that support your views that you do not use or practice.

 

[Yekcidmij]

What about the 7 days?

What about them?

It has everything to do with calendars. New moon means new month, not new week.

And a new month begins a new week - at least in Lev 23.

It is an estimate.

Right; so it doesn't work out that nicely.

Egypt did not have legal courts?

With 12 jurors?

Do you properly understand torah? You wont post the scriptures to support your views.

Leviticus 23. Would you prefer I post the whole chapter in my post?

Where?

23:7-8, 23:24-25, 23:35-36, 23:39

You must keep the whole law, not just the parts you like.

I guess it would help if those who demand others follow the sabbath would themselves at least follow the correct one.

Is it strange to you, that non-jews publish a new moon calendar?

Why would it be?

And we're talking about the Isarelites. We could hypothesize that the Israelites used an Egyptian calendar, but once we go and look at the evidence we recognize that the evidence indicates they didn't. So we can reject the idea that the Israelites used an Egyptian calendar.

By the way, the Egyptian calendar had 10 days in a week; not 7.

Post the scriptures to support your view.

So you will only believe the Egyptian calendar had 10 days if I can find it in the bible?

An Egyptian calendar with 10 days in a week seems to sort of strongly defeat the idea that the Israelites responsible for Lev 23 (who used a 7 day week) were using the Egyptian calendar. But if you really want to believe that the Israelites used a 10 day calendar.....I guess I will await your evidence.

 

[from scratch]

You posted Ex 12, you did not post the specific verses that support the lunar calendar.

Uncle! Would you like for me to come and read it for you?

 

[from scratch]

Where is this written? Please, please post the scriptures that support your views that you do not use in your personal life. Those that teach torah, should also practice torah.

I'm not teaching the Torah. You post an MJ faith icon and don't even respect the Torah to properly capitalize it. Then you want me to pinpoint the subject mater for you. I personally think your a fraud. As a Christian I'm not bound by the Torah. You're the one pushing it, not me.

 

[mercy1061]

Uncle! Would you like for me to come and read it for you?

I want you to thoroughly read it for yourself.

 

[mercy1061]

I'm not teaching the Torah. You post an MJ faith icon and don't even respect the Torah to properly capitalize it. Then you want me to pinpoint the subject mater for you. I personally think your a fraud. As a Christian I'm not bound by the Torah. You're the one pushing it, not me.

Trust me I know you do not practice or teach Torah. You capitalize it and disobey it. Have you not learned yet that throwing insults at me never will help your argument?

 

[from scratch]

I want you to thoroughly read it for yourself.

I have. Maybe we have different versions. Mine are all accessible on the net. Yes I have several hard copy versions.

 

[from scratch]

Trust me I know you do not practice or teach Torah. You capitalize it and disobey it. Have you not learned yet that throwing insults at me never will help your argument?

Do you have any clues why I don't? I venture that you don't either. At best you might observe an amended version of the law (Torah).

 

[mercy1061]

What about them?

What about the 7 days in Genesis 1-2?

And a new month begins a new week - at least in Lev 23.

I don't think so. The Sabbath is not the first day of the week, but the seventh day.

Right; so it doesn't work out that nicely.

With 12 jurors?

If you wish to ignore present day evidence, it is your choice. The 12 jurors (12 tribes of Israel) review the evidence of the case.

Leviticus 23. Would you prefer I post the whole chapter in my post?

You don't have to, posting the scriptures with the attached words would have been sufficient. You have failed to do so.

23:7-8, 23:24-25, 23:35-36, 23:39

1. Lev 23:7-8; including vs. 5-6 for clarity

5 “‘In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month, between sundown and complete darkness, comes Pesach for Adonai.


The first month rules and regulations; what about the rest of the months?

6 On the fifteenth day of the same month is the festival of matzah; for seven days you are to eat matzah. 7 On the first day you are to have a holy convocation; don’t do any kind of ordinary work. 8 Bring an offering made by fire to Adonai for seven days. On the seventh day is a holy convocation; do not do any kind of ordinary work.’”

I do not understand how these verses support your position? On the first day of the first month is a sabbath. When are these holy convocations are suppose to take effect? Let us examine the very next verse;

9 Adonai said to Moshe, 10 “Tell the people of Isra’el, ‘After you enter the land I am giving you and harvest its ripe crops, you are to bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest to the cohen.

So this first month of holy convocation, is this the first month they enter the promise land or the first month of the year? Considering verse 9, this ordinance would probably take effect after they enter the promise land. We all know the "law of the land" change with location. The laws in the city are not the same as those in rural areas.

2. Lev 23:24-25

23 Adonai said to Moshe, 24 “Tell the people of Isra’el, ‘In the seventh month, the first of the month is to be for you a day of complete rest for remembering, a holy convocation announced with blasts on the shofar. 25 Do not do any kind of ordinary work, and bring an offering made by fire to Adonai.’”

The first of the seventh month, a day of rest. Again, what about the other months except the first and seventh month? This makes "perfect sense" since each month may begin with a different day, the moon completes it's journey around the earth at different times. We make estimates when the moon will complete it's journey, thus a printed calendar. The moon completing it's journey around the earth does not constitute a sabbath every new moon. Another faulty assumption made by the lunar calendar advocates.


3. Lev 23:35-36, 39

33 Adonai said to Moshe, 34 “Tell the people of Isra’el, ‘On the fifteenth day of this seventh month is the feast of Sukkot for seven days to Adonai. 35 On the first day there is to be a holy convocation; do not do any kind of ordinary work. 36 For seven days you are to bring an offering made by fire to Adonai; on the eighth day you are to have a holy convocation and bring an offering made by fire to Adonai ; it is a day of public assembly; do not do any kind of ordinary work.

39 “‘But on the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when you have gathered the produce of the land, you are to observe the festival of Adonai seven days; the first day is to be a complete rest and the eighth day is to be a complete rest.



Again the seventh month is being discussed, first day, 8th day and 15th day, NOT every month, NOT everyday! The fact it is called a "public assembly" it is also a national celebration or holiday. These ordinances must be observed as a nation. National holidays are not usually celebrated every month, but maybe once or twice a year.

I guess it would help if those who demand others follow the sabbath would themselves at least follow the correct one.

Why would it be?


So you will only believe the Egyptian calendar had 10 days if I can find it in the bible?

An Egyptian calendar with 10 days in a week seems to sort of strongly defeat the idea that the Israelites responsible for Lev 23 (who used a 7 day week) were using the Egyptian calendar. But if you really want to believe that the Israelites used a 10 day calendar.....I guess I will await your evidence.

So you agree that Israel used a 7 day week? If you do, the lunar calendar has already been defeated by you. Do you hear how I clearly presented my argument, posting the "whole" scriptures in question to explain them. I wish you would do likewise, to avoid common misunderstandings and confusion.

 

[from scratch]

What about the 7 days in Genesis 1-2?



I don't think so. The Sabbath is not the first day of the week, but the seventh day.




If you wish to ignore present day evidence, it is your choice. The 12 jurors (12 tribes of Israel) review the evidence of the case.



You don't have to, posting the scriptures with the attached words would have been sufficient. You have failed to do so.




1. Lev 23:7-8; including vs. 5-6 for clarity

5 “‘In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month, between sundown and complete darkness, comes Pesach for Adonai.


The first month rules and regulations; what about the rest of the months?

6 On the fifteenth day of the same month is the festival of matzah; for seven days you are to eat matzah. 7 On the first day you are to have a holy convocation; don’t do any kind of ordinary work. 8 Bring an offering made by fire to Adonai for seven days. On the seventh day is a holy convocation; do not do any kind of ordinary work.’”

I do not understand how these verses support your position? On the first day of the first month is a sabbath. When are these holy convocations are suppose to take effect? Let us examine the very next verse;

9 Adonai said to Moshe, 10 “Tell the people of Isra’el, ‘After you enter the land I am giving you and harvest its ripe crops, you are to bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest to the cohen.

So this first month of holy convocation, is this the first month they enter the promise land or the first month of the year? Considering verse 9, this ordinance would probably take effect after they enter the promise land. We all know the "law of the land" change with location. The laws in the city are not the same as those in rural areas.

2. Lev 23:24-25

23 Adonai said to Moshe, 24 “Tell the people of Isra’el, ‘In the seventh month, the first of the month is to be for you a day of complete rest for remembering, a holy convocation announced with blasts on the shofar. 25 Do not do any kind of ordinary work, and bring an offering made by fire to Adonai.’”

The first of the seventh month, a day of rest. Again, what about the other months except the first and seventh month? This makes "perfect sense" since each month may begin with a different day, the moon completes it's journey around the earth at different times. We make estimates when the moon will complete it's journey, thus a printed calendar. The moon completing it's journey around the earth does not constitute a sabbath every new moon. Another faulty assumption made by the lunar calendar advocates.


3. Lev 23:35-36, 39

33 Adonai said to Moshe, 34 “Tell the people of Isra’el, ‘On the fifteenth day of this seventh month is the feast of Sukkot for seven days to Adonai. 35 On the first day there is to be a holy convocation; do not do any kind of ordinary work. 36 For seven days you are to bring an offering made by fire to Adonai; on the eighth day you are to have a holy convocation and bring an offering made by fire to Adonai ; it is a day of public assembly; do not do any kind of ordinary work.

39 “‘But on the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when you have gathered the produce of the land, you are to observe the festival of Adonai seven days; the first day is to be a complete rest and the eighth day is to be a complete rest.



Again the seventh month is being discussed, first day, 8th day and 15th day, NOT every month, NOT everyday! The fact it is called a "public assembly" it is also a national celebration or holiday. These ordinances must be observed as a nation. National holidays are not usually celebrated every month, but maybe once or twice a year.



So you agree that Israel used a 7 day week? If you do, the lunar calendar has already been defeated by you. Do you hear how I clearly presented my argument, posting the "whole" scriptures in question to explain them. I wish you would do likewise, to avoid common misunderstandings and confusion.

Can you provide a calendar example of what you're saying?

 

[Yekcidmij]

I don't think so. The Sabbath is not the first day of the week, but the seventh day.

But it is the first of the month in Lev 23.

If you wish to ignore present day evidence, it is your choice. The 12 jurors (12 tribes of Israel) review the evidence of the case.

Why should I consider present day evidence when we're talking about Leviticus? You still haven't cited anything regarding a 12 juror system in Egypt - or Israel.

You don't have to, posting the scriptures with the attached words would have been sufficient. You have failed to do so.

I've given an entire chapter and even listed some of it's verses. How can you say that I haven't?

5 “‘In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month, between sundown and complete darkness, comes Pesach for Adonai.

The first month rules and regulations; what about the rest of the months?

What about them?

So this first month of holy convocation, is this the first month they enter the promise land or the first month of the year?

It's the first month of the year. Passover is connected to the first month in the OT.

Ex 12:2 “This month is to be your beginning of months; it will be your first month of the year.
Ex 13:4 On this day, in the month of Abib, you are going out
Deut 16:1 Observe the month Abib and keep the Passover to the Lord your God, for in that month he brought you out of Egypt by night.
​

Considering verse 9, this ordinance would probably take effect after they enter the promise land.

Considering that Lev 23 explicitly says that it's the first month, as well as Exodus and Deuteronomy, I think we have to simply conclude that it was actually the first month. There is no need to insert anything else into the text.

23 Adonai said to Moshe, 24 “Tell the people of Isra’el, ‘In the seventh month, the first of the month is to be for you a day of complete rest for remembering, a holy convocation announced with blasts on the shofar. 25 Do not do any kind of ordinary work, and bring an offering made by fire to Adonai.’”

The first of the seventh month, a day of rest. Again, what about the other months except the first and seventh month?

What about them? Are you making an argument with your question or what?

I see you do seem to agree that at least the first of the 7th month occured on a Sabbath. I guess this is a step in the right direction.

The moon completing it's journey around the earth does not constitute a sabbath every new moon.

But it does in the calendar in play in Lev 23.

Another faulty assumption made by the lunar calendar advocates.

Who are "lunar calendar advocates?" I don't know this group and am not affiliated with anyone.

3. Lev 23:35-36, 39

33 Adonai said to Moshe, 34 “Tell the people of Isra’el, ‘On the fifteenth day of this seventh month is the feast of Sukkot for seven days to Adonai. 35 On the first day there is to be a holy convocation; do not do any kind of ordinary work. 36 For seven days you are to bring an offering made by fire to Adonai; on the eighth day you are to have a holy convocation and bring an offering made by fire to Adonai ; it is a day of public assembly; do not do any kind of ordinary work.

39 “‘But on the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when you have gathered the produce of the land, you are to observe the festival of Adonai seven days; the first day is to be a complete rest and the eighth day is to be a complete rest.


Again the seventh month is being discussed, first day, 8th day and 15th day, NOT every month, NOT everyday! The fact it is called a "public assembly" it is also a national celebration or holiday. These ordinances must be observed as a nation. National holidays are not usually celebrated every month, but maybe once or twice a year.

(1) The words for "holy assembly" and "no regular work" are the same words used to describe the Sabbath in 23:2-3. It's pretty obvious that these things in 23:7-8, 24-25, 35-36, 39 were occuring on the Sabbath.

(2) This chapter is not only mentioning the 7th month. It also discusses the first month. The Sabbaths consistently fall on the same days of both months. In both months, the month begins on a Sabbath. This happens becuase the author is using a lunar calendar where each month begins with a Sabbath and weekly Sabbaths fall on the same day of each month.

 

[mercy1061]

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But it is the first of the month in Lev 23.

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Why should I consider present day evidence when we're talking about Leviticus? You still haven't cited anything regarding a 12 juror system in Egypt - or Israel.

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I've given an entire chapter and even listed some of it's verses. How can you say that I haven't?

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What about them?

[/FONT][/COLOR]

It's the first month of the year. Passover is connected to the first month in the OT.

Ex 12:2 “This month is to be your beginning of months; it will be your first month of the year.
Ex 13:4 On this day, in the month of Abib, you are going out
Deut 16:1 Observe the month Abib and keep the Passover to the Lord your God, for in that month he brought you out of Egypt by night.
​

[/FONT][/COLOR]

Considering that Lev 23 explicitly says that it's the first month, as well as Exodus and Deuteronomy, I think we have to simply conclude that it was actually the first month. There is no need to insert anything else into the text.



What about them? Are you making an argument with your question or what?

I see you do seem to agree that at least the first of the 7th month occured on a Sabbath. I guess this is a step in the right direction.



But it does in the calendar in play in Lev 23.



Who are "lunar calendar advocates?" I don't know this group and am not affiliated with anyone.



(1) The words for "holy assembly" and "no regular work" are the same words used to describe the Sabbath in 23:2-3. It's pretty obvious that these things in 23:7-8, 24-25, 35-36, 39 were occuring on the Sabbath.

(2) This chapter is not only mentioning the 7th month. It also discusses the first month. The Sabbaths consistently fall on the same days of both months. In both months, the month begins on a Sabbath. This happens becuase the author is using a lunar calendar where each month begins with a Sabbath and weekly Sabbaths fall on the same day of each month.

We will have to agree to disagree.

 

[from scratch]

What about the 7 days in Genesis 1-2?



I don't think so. The Sabbath is not the first day of the week, but the seventh day.




If you wish to ignore present day evidence, it is your choice. The 12 jurors (12 tribes of Israel) review the evidence of the case.



You don't have to, posting the scriptures with the attached words would have been sufficient. You have failed to do so.




1. Lev 23:7-8; including vs. 5-6 for clarity

5 “‘In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month, between sundown and complete darkness, comes Pesach for Adonai.


The first month rules and regulations; what about the rest of the months?

6 On the fifteenth day of the same month is the festival of matzah; for seven days you are to eat matzah. 7 On the first day you are to have a holy convocation; don’t do any kind of ordinary work. 8 Bring an offering made by fire to Adonai for seven days. On the seventh day is a holy convocation; do not do any kind of ordinary work.’”

I do not understand how these verses support your position? On the first day of the first month is a sabbath. When are these holy convocations are suppose to take effect? Let us examine the very next verse;

9 Adonai said to Moshe, 10 “Tell the people of Isra’el, ‘After you enter the land I am giving you and harvest its ripe crops, you are to bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest to the cohen.

So this first month of holy convocation, is this the first month they enter the promise land or the first month of the year? Considering verse 9, this ordinance would probably take effect after they enter the promise land. We all know the "law of the land" change with location. The laws in the city are not the same as those in rural areas.

2. Lev 23:24-25

23 Adonai said to Moshe, 24 “Tell the people of Isra’el, ‘In the seventh month, the first of the month is to be for you a day of complete rest for remembering, a holy convocation announced with blasts on the shofar. 25 Do not do any kind of ordinary work, and bring an offering made by fire to Adonai.’”

The first of the seventh month, a day of rest. Again, what about the other months except the first and seventh month? This makes "perfect sense" since each month may begin with a different day, the moon completes it's journey around the earth at different times. We make estimates when the moon will complete it's journey, thus a printed calendar. The moon completing it's journey around the earth does not constitute a sabbath every new moon. Another faulty assumption made by the lunar calendar advocates.


3. Lev 23:35-36, 39

33 Adonai said to Moshe, 34 “Tell the people of Isra’el, ‘On the fifteenth day of this seventh month is the feast of Sukkot for seven days to Adonai. 35 On the first day there is to be a holy convocation; do not do any kind of ordinary work. 36 For seven days you are to bring an offering made by fire to Adonai; on the eighth day you are to have a holy convocation and bring an offering made by fire to Adonai ; it is a day of public assembly; do not do any kind of ordinary work.

39 “‘But on the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when you have gathered the produce of the land, you are to observe the festival of Adonai seven days; the first day is to be a complete rest and the eighth day is to be a complete rest.



Again the seventh month is being discussed, first day, 8th day and 15th day, NOT every month, NOT everyday! The fact it is called a "public assembly" it is also a national celebration or holiday. These ordinances must be observed as a nation. National holidays are not usually celebrated every month, but maybe once or twice a year.



So you agree that Israel used a 7 day week? If you do, the lunar calendar has already been defeated by you. Do you hear how I clearly presented my argument, posting the "whole" scriptures in question to explain them. I wish you would do likewise, to avoid common misunderstandings and confusion.

I wager you haven't even read the law.

 

[Yekcidmij]

We will have to agree to disagree.

Ok. Sometimes that is best. Thanks for the discussion!

 

[mercy1061]

I wager you haven't even read the law.

We will have to agree to disagree.