Is the seventh day the Sabbath?

Honest Al · Jun 11, 2014

from scratch said:
Why do you want to establish the law? I think your pro law for salvation.

Would you care to be honest and admit that you keep the law meaning the Sabbath? Forgive me for being suspicious.

"Why do I want to establish the law?" Because I want to be in harmony with Paul, who I know was in harmony with Christ.

"Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather we uphold the law." (Romans 3:31 NIV)

And I don't mind you one bit asking me if I keep the Sabbath.
And I'm not ashamed to admit that yes I most certainly do.
Maybe something here will cause you to do a little more thinking:

"I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated, but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on the earth, He did nothing to set it aside." (The Ten Commandments, D.L. Moody)

“The moral law contained in the Ten Commandments, and enforced by the prophets, He did not take away. It was not the design of His coming to revoke any part of this.” {John Wesley, “On the Sermon on the Mount,” Discourse 6, pgs. 75, 76}

"Verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." {Matthew 5:19, 20}

God Bless

Honest Al · Jun 11, 2014

from scratch said:
Yes and Jesus was giving a fool his desired answer.

WOW!
Well, I just hope whoever is wrong will discover it before it's too late.

Take care

from scratch · Jun 11, 2014

Honest Al said:
"Why do I want to establish the law?" Because I want to be in harmony with Paul, who I know was in harmony with Christ.

"Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather we uphold the law." (Romans 3:31 NIV)

And I don't mind you one bit asking me if I keep the Sabbath.
And I'm not ashamed to admit that yes I most certainly do.
Maybe something here will cause you to do a little more thinking:

"I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated, but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on the earth, He did nothing to set it aside." (The Ten Commandments, D.L. Moody)

The moral law contained in the Ten Commandments, and enforced by the prophets, He did not take away. It was not the design of His coming to revoke any part of this. {John Wesley, On the Sermon on the Mount, Discourse 6, pgs. 75, 76}

"Verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." {Matthew 5:19, 20}

God Bless

I don't trust lawyers to tell the truth. I bet there's more you should probably confess as well.

Sophrosyne · Jun 11, 2014

Honest Al said:
"Why do I want to establish the law?" Because I want to be in harmony with Paul, who I know was in harmony with Christ.

Saul was in harmony with the Law... Paul was not so. Saul killed Christians because of the Law, Paul did not. If you want the Law you end up in harmony with Saul... not Paul.

mercy1061 · Jun 11, 2014

Sophrosyne said:
Saul was in harmony with the Law... Paul was not so. Saul killed Christians because of the Law, Paul did not. If you want the Law you end up in harmony with Saul... not Paul.

I think Saul and Paul are the same person?

mercy1061 · Jun 11, 2014

VictorC said:
Last May 16th I posted on how Romans 3:31 is one of the most abused verses of Scripture when it is taken out of context. I will re-post my comments here.

We're subjected to Adventists forcing doctrines into Scripture, when sola Scriptura damages the agenda 'print to fit' which doesn't actually fit.

Just one example: How many times have we been subjected to the sound-bite "Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law." from Romans 3:31?
More times than I can count.

Review the context, and we see this verse sandwiched in between "the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets" (v.3:21) and "Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, but also for us. It shall be imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification." (v.4:23-25). In the midst of this passage is found "we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law" (v.3:28).

Upholding the Law doesn't make a lot of sense in this narrative - not when the assumption is made that v.3:31 is arguing for a continuance of the Mosaic covenant. And, that's what it is - an assumption.

Just as Romans 7:6 identifies the Law we have been delivered from by a quote from the Ten Commandments in the following verse, Romans 3:31 affirms the reliability of the Law's testimony when it quotes from Genesis 15:6 three verses later: For what does the Scripture say? Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

The inspired author argues for the reliability of the Law that testifies about righteousness by faith, and not by feigned compliance of the Mosaic covenant Law - and the Law we uphold comes 430 years before the Ten Commandments existed!

The righteousness of G-d A PART from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the law and the prophets.

from scratch · Jun 12, 2014

Honest Al said:
WOW!
Well, I just hope whoever is wrong will discover it before it's too late.

Take care

Do you really keep the 4th commandment as its written by the finger of God on the stone tablets represented in Ex 20? Maybe some day you'll come to know that Jesus is the way, truth and life. Jesus said He is the only way into heaven and fellowship with His Father.

from scratch · Jun 12, 2014

mercy1061 said:
I think Saul and Paul are the same person?

Saul and Paul are same individual. The difference is Paul is the born again and changed Saul.

Sophrosyne · Jun 12, 2014

mercy1061 said:
I think Saul and Paul are the same person?

Herein lies a lot of your problem concerning Paul in that you don't recognize the drastic change in him brought about by God. Saul was feared by all believers especially Jewish Christians while Paul was in time accepted by Christians even the Apostles whom their friends were killed by Saul's doings accepted Paul as one of their own.... an equal.
There is a difference between a believer and non believer sometimes it is like night and day.

tzadik · Jun 12, 2014

Sophrosyne said:
There is a difference between a believer and non believer sometimes it is like night and day.

In the case of Paul, he was zealous of the law but misusing it. He was seeking to establish his own righteousness.

For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. [Rom. 10]

But after His encounter with the Messiah, he subjected himself to the righteousness of God!

Because after all, the Law of God is Spiritual, and can only be correctly used if one has been born of the Spirit of God!

Honest Al · Jun 12, 2014

from scratch said:
Do you really keep the 4th commandment as its written by the finger of God on the stone tablets represented in Ex 20? Maybe some day you'll come to know that Jesus is the way, truth and life. Jesus said He is the only way into heaven and fellowship with His Father.

"This is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent." {John 17:3}

"By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." {1 John 2:3, 4 NASB}

Honest Al · Jun 12, 2014

from scratch said:
Do you really keep the 4th commandment as its written by the finger of God on the stone tablets represented in Ex 20? Maybe some day you'll come to know that Jesus is the way, truth and life. Jesus said He is the only way into heaven and fellowship with His Father.

"If you love Me, you will keep My commandments... He who has My commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves Me... If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word... He who does not love Me does not keep My words." {John 14:15, 21, 23, 24 NASB}

VictorC · Jun 12, 2014

mercy1061 said:
The righteousness of G-d A PART from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the law and the prophets.

Popular synonyms for 'apart' clarifies God's righteousness apart from the Law.

separate
aside
afar
alone
aloof
away
by itself
cut off
disassociated
disconnected
distant
distinct
divorced
excluded
exclusively
freely
independent
independently
individually
isolated

mercy1061 · Jun 12, 2014

VictorC said:
Popular synonyms for 'apart' clarifies God's righteousness apart from the Law.

separate

aside

afar

alone

aloof

away

by itself

cut off

disassociated

disconnected

distant

distinct

divorced

excluded

exclusively

freely

independent

independently

individually

isolated

Now if husband and wife seperate or divorce, then at one time they were married or together. The husband and wife after seperation may become reconciled. Have you heard about the ministry of reconciliation?

mercy1061 · Jun 12, 2014

Sophrosyne said:
Herein lies a lot of your problem concerning Paul in that you don't recognize the drastic change in him brought about by God. Saul was feared by all believers especially Jewish Christians while Paul was in time accepted by Christians even the Apostles whom their friends were killed by Saul's doings accepted Paul as one of their own.... an equal.
There is a difference between a believer and non believer sometimes it is like night and day.

Every day we have BOTH; day and night. Do you agree?

VictorC · Jun 12, 2014

mercy1061 said:
Now if husband and wife seperate or divorce, then at one time they were married or together. The husband and wife after seperation may become reconciled. Have you heard about the ministry of reconciliation?

The argument you're attempting to introduce is divorced, cut off, disassociated, disconnected, and separate from the passage you're contending with.

from scratch · Jun 12, 2014

Honest Al said:
"This is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent." {John 17:3}

"By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." {1 John 2:3, 4 NASB}

This doesn't answer the question unless one believes the Ten Commandments are issued by Jesus Christ. Such a notion is easily refutable even with the Book of the Law.

from scratch · Jun 12, 2014

Honest Al said:
"If you love Me, you will keep My commandments... He who has My commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves Me... If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word... He who does not love Me does not keep My words." {John 14:15, 21, 23, 24 NASB}

Same response as offered in my previous post applies.

Please identify the sets of commandments in the following -

10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. JN 15

from scratch · Jun 12, 2014

mercy1061 said:
Now if husband and wife seperate or divorce, then at one time they were married or together. The husband and wife after seperation may become reconciled. Have you heard about the ministry of reconciliation?

Not if one of them is dead as Rom 7 states.

from scratch · Jun 12, 2014

mercy1061 said:
Every day we have BOTH; day and night. Do you agree?

So you must be saying night and day are the same thing.

Is the seventh day the Sabbath?

Is the seventh day not the same as the Sabbath?

The Seventh day is God's continuous rest.

The seventh is a day just as the previous "eveings and mornings" of Genesis 1.

The bible clearly shows that the Seventh day is not The sabbath.

The Seventh day is the Sabbath as clearly shown in Exodus 20:10.

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