Is the seventh day the Sabbath?

BobRyan · Jun 21, 2014

Originally Posted by from scratch

Elder 111 said:
All men!

Which is precisely how D.L. Moody, R.C. Sproul, The Baptist Confession of Faith, the Westminster Confession of Faith - and the Pope's Dies Domini answered that question.

no wonder that those who keep the 4th commandment on the actual 7th day - also do not miss that same point that even the Sunday-keeping sources admit to.

in Christ,

Bob

from scratch · Jun 21, 2014

Elder 111 said:
All men!

Where?

from scratch · Jun 21, 2014

Elder 111 said:
God is a liar? Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
From Creation not Sinai! Because God is creator not the Jewish deliverer!

Because those who speak against the Sabbath are not working with God.
Eze. 22

25 There is a conspiracy of her prophets in the midst thereof, like a roaring lion ravening the prey; they have devoured souls; they have taken the treasure and precious things; they have made her many widows in the midst thereof.
26 Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they shewed difference between the unclean and the clean, and have hid their eyes from my sabbaths, and I am profaned among them.

Either that or His prophets and His only begotten Son are who backs those prophets up. At any rate you make the Bible something to not be believed.

from scratch · Jun 21, 2014

Elder 111 said:
Where do you understand that God need to rest? Working 6 24 hour days made God tired? So who is keeping the world if God is resting?
Is not Jesus the creator? John 1. Was He resting when He was on earth?
Do you not understand that the Sabbath was created for man. Mark 2:27. What must Jesus do? Hit you over the head? He who created it said so!

You present Jesus disagreeing with Moses. So who's right?

from scratch · Jun 21, 2014

Elder 111 said:
Your logic! But not truth! Your logic deny the origin of the Sabbath.
There is no logic needed. There are plain statements by God. Since you have rejected them as referring to the Sabbath at creation at least do us the honor of stating your logical understanding of what is meant in these text if not the seventh day of Creation.

For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. What does God mean here? What is he referring to? Ex 16:26 Six days ye shall gather it; but on the seventh day, which is the sabbath, in it there shall be none. Ex 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: Lev. 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the Lord in all your dwellings. Why did God refer to creation if it is not the seventh day of creation?

What Jesus mean when He said that the Sabbath was created for Man? Mark 2:27. When and where was that day created?

Does badgering make something true and acceptable?

from scratch · Jun 21, 2014

Elder 111 said:
You gone back to the same premise. The Sabbath command is the only one that says remember, why? Remember something that never was known? The Sabbath is the only commandment that is a problem why? None of them was written before and I maintain, even though you have rejected the idea, that all are to be treated the same way. Exclude all or include all.

It was before sin and it will be after sin Gen 2 Isa 66:22-23.
Question, what is the ark of the testimony?

Doesn't the same question deserve the same answer?

Isa 66:22-23 doesn't refer to the Sabbath?

from scratch · Jun 21, 2014

BobRyan said:
It is interesting that even the pro-sunday keeping sources mentioned in my signature line - see the point that you make above clearly.

Pretty easy point for all to see.

in Christ,

Bob

Yeppers like I said in some other threads more spam. The above appears in several threads.

from scratch · Jun 21, 2014

Elder 111 said:
Originally Posted by from scratch

Elder we're not just talking about some round figure of say 400 years. There isn't any evidence in the Bible anywhere anyone observed the Sabbath until after Israel departed Egypt.

Now did God give the Sabbath as a sign to Israel or did God in fact give it to the whole world? If God gave it to the whole world why does the Book of the Law say different? If you're pitting Moses against Jesus you show the Bible to not be inspired and one of them is a liar. Who you going to discredit? If you discredit Moses you also discredit the law and the Ten Commandments. If you discredit Jesus you say God is a liar. You have a real problem on your hands.

Originally Posted by Elder 111

There is no discrediting required. The Sabbath was for man/the world Mark 2:27. Genesis 2. No where did Moses say the Sabbath was for Jews only Did he? God told the Jews that they should keep the Sabbath especially because He delivered them from Egypt, but that was not the only nor major reason was it? Before He said that He said,
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger (not Jews only) that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. (the reason for the Sabbath)
To the Sabbath was only because the Jews were delivered from Egypt would not be correct would it now?
I have purposely highlighted "Scratch's" question and my reply. Would you still insist that I did not address the point?
Secondly where did I say the scriptures are uninspired and self contradictory? Your comments indicate that when an argument is presented that clearly shows the original to be flawed there is a bias attempt thereafter to make the correct comments look bad, that is not good!

Must be just another oopsy.

I don't see an answer to my question.

from scratch · Jun 21, 2014

Elder 111 said:
There is no command to worship God only either! So!

Yer point is.....

Sophrosyne · Jun 21, 2014

Elder 111 said:
Your logic! But not truth! Your logic deny the origin of the Sabbath.
There is no logic needed. There are plain statements by God. Since you have rejected them as referring to the Sabbath at creation at least do us the honor of stating your logical understanding of what is meant in these text if not the seventh day of Creation.

For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. What does God mean here? What is he referring to? Ex 16:26 Six days ye shall gather it; but on the seventh day, which is the sabbath, in it there shall be none. Ex 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: Lev. 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the Lord in all your dwellings. Why did God refer to creation if it is not the seventh day of creation?

What Jesus mean when He said that the Sabbath was created for Man? Mark 2:27. When and where was that day created?

You have a disconnect as there is the rest of the book of Genesis with NO mention of the Sabbath in it after God rested. We don't see God admitting to STOP resting either according to the Sabbath he has not been doing anything to break that rest. If God is resting then the sabbath of creation isn't the one created for man.
You won't admit the two sabbaths are NOT the same thing one is for God and the other for man. God didn't prepare ahead of time to rest he just worked and then quit.

Sophrosyne · Jun 21, 2014

Elder 111 said:
You gone back to the same premise. The Sabbath command is the only one that says remember, why? Remember something that never was known? The Sabbath is the only commandment that is a problem why? None of them was written before and I maintain, even though you have rejected the idea, that all are to be treated the same way. Exclude all or include all.

If it says remember then either it was forgotten OR it was NEVER known before and not in anyone's memory ever.

It was before sin and it will be after sin Gen 2 Isa 66:22-23.
Question, what is the ark of the testimony?

No... sin was before the Sabbath as the Sabbath started with Moses alive and Adam sinned long before that happened.

VictorC · Jun 21, 2014

Elder 111 said:
What ever do you mean?

Your actions prove conclusively that whatever claim you made that the Mosaic covenant is written into your heart and mind is completely null and void.

VictorC · Jun 21, 2014

Elder 111 said:
Originally Posted by from scratch

Elder we're not just talking about some round figure of say 400 years. There isn't any evidence in the Bible anywhere anyone observed the Sabbath until after Israel departed Egypt.

Now did God give the Sabbath as a sign to Israel or did God in fact give it to the whole world? If God gave it to the whole world why does the Book of the Law say different? If you're pitting Moses against Jesus you show the Bible to not be inspired and one of them is a liar. Who you going to discredit? If you discredit Moses you also discredit the law and the Ten Commandments. If you discredit Jesus you say God is a liar. You have a real problem on your hands.

Originally Posted by Elder 111

There is no discrediting required. The Sabbath was for man/the world Mark 2:27. Genesis 2. No where did Moses say the Sabbath was for Jews only Did he? God told the Jews that they should keep the Sabbath especially because He delivered them from Egypt, but that was not the only nor major reason was it? Before He said that He said,
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger (not Jews only) that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. (the reason for the Sabbath)
To the Sabbath was only because the Jews were delivered from Egypt would not be correct would it now?

VictorC said:

Elder111: Nowhere did you address the point 'from scratch' made. If you demand that we accept your argument that Scripture is uninspired and self-contradictory, why then do you bother to quote Scripture you consider an invalid and unreliable testimony?

Click to expand...

I have purposely highlighted "Scratch's" question and my reply. Would you still insist that I did not address the point?
Secondly where did I say the scriptures are uninspired and self contradictory? Your comments indicate that when an argument is presented that clearly shows the original to be flawed there is a bias attempt thereafter to make the correct comments look bad, that is not good!

What I see above is you making a direct contradiction against the Law, which is what 'from scratch' cited for you. Let me offer you a clue: we aren't going to dispose of the Law's testimony just because you can't reconcile your lousy theology with it. Contradicting the Law doesn't furnish an answer to the post you tried -and failed- to respond to. Even 'from scratch' noticed the same failure on your part:

from scratch said:
Must be just another oopsy.

I don't see an answer to my question.

from scratch · Jun 21, 2014

VictorC said:
What I see above is you making a direct contradiction against the Law, which is what 'from scratch' cited for you. Let me offer you a clue: we aren't going to dispose of the Law's testimony just because you can't reconcile your lousy theology with it. Contradicting the Law doesn't furnish an answer to the post you tried -and failed- to respond to. Even 'from scratch' noticed the same failure on your part:

I'm just a might put out with the run-a-round game the pro law people do. They can't reconcile one verse with another. They divorce every text from the Bible. That way it always agrees with them. But its funny to watch them contradict themselves when they move to a different text. I've come to the conclusion they really believe nothing.

from scratch · Jun 21, 2014

Elder 111 said:
There is no discrediting required. The Sabbath was for man/the world Mark 2:27. Genesis 2. No where did Moses say the Sabbath was for Jews only Did he? God told the Jews that they should keep the Sabbath especially because He delivered them from Egypt, but that was not the only nor major reason was it? Before He said that He said,
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger (not Jews only) that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. (the reason for the Sabbath)
To the Sabbath was only because the Jews were delivered from Egypt would not be correct would it now?

Do you have a reading problem? I find the following in my Bible. Are these passages in yours?

13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the Lord that doth sanctify you. Ex 31

14 And madest known unto them thy holy sabbath, and commandedst them precepts, statutes, and laws, by the hand of Moses thy servant: Neh 9

9 But I wrought for my name's sake, that it should not be polluted before the heathen, among whom they were, in whose sight I made myself known unto them, in bringing them forth out of the land of Egypt.

10 Wherefore I caused them to go forth out of the land of Egypt, and brought them into the wilderness.

11 And I gave them my statutes, and shewed them my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them.

12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the Lord that sanctify them. Eze 20

Please explain how any of the above can mean the whole world.

from scratch · Jun 21, 2014

Elder 111 said:
God is a liar? Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
From Creation not Sinai! Because God is creator not the Jewish deliverer!

Because those who speak against the Sabbath are not working with God.
Eze. 22

25 There is a conspiracy of her prophets in the midst thereof, like a roaring lion ravening the prey; they have devoured souls; they have taken the treasure and precious things; they have made her many widows in the midst thereof.
26 Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they shewed difference between the unclean and the clean, and have hid their eyes from my sabbaths, and I am profaned among them.

Oh my!!!!! where should I start with such a post? You really need to read your own posts.

mercy1061 · Jun 21, 2014

from scratch said:
I'm just a might put out with the run-a-round game the pro law people do. They can't reconcile one verse with another. They divorce every text from the Bible. That way it always agrees with them. But its funny to watch them contradict themselves when they move to a different text. I've come to the conclusion they really believe nothing.

"The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath"

27 Then he said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.

Pharisee Shaul says similar language;

8 For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; 9 neither was man created for woman, but woman for man.

Did the Sabbath come from man like his wife? Adam did not meet his wife of his dream until he obeyed Sabbath and fell into a deep sleep; while he was resting L-rd G-d made a woman from his rib,

21 So the Lord God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man’s ribs[g] and then closed up the place with flesh. 22 Then the Lord God made a woman from the rib[h] he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.

from scratch · Jun 21, 2014

mercy1061 said:
"The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath"

27 Then he said to them, The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.

Pharisee Shaul says similar language;

8 For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; 9 neither was man created for woman, but woman for man.

Did the Sabbath come from man like his wife? Adam did not meet his wife of his dream until he obeyed Sabbath and fell into a deep sleep; while he was resting L-rd G-d made a woman from his rib,

21 So the Lord God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the mans ribs[g] and then closed up the place with flesh. 22 Then the Lord God made a woman from the rib[h] he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.

Are you reading the thread? I quoted Moses and the prophets to Elder. I ask you the same question - are those verses in your Bible? Please tell me who I should believe. I think I should believe all the Bible you have conflicting with itself. No wonder Christianity has a problem.

Elder 111 · Jun 22, 2014

from scratch said:
Do you have a reading problem? I find the following in my Bible. Are these passages in yours?

13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the Lord that doth sanctify you. Ex 31

14 And madest known unto them thy holy sabbath, and commandedst them precepts, statutes, and laws, by the hand of Moses thy servant: Neh 9

9 But I wrought for my name's sake, that it should not be polluted before the heathen, among whom they were, in whose sight I made myself known unto them, in bringing them forth out of the land of Egypt.

10 Wherefore I caused them to go forth out of the land of Egypt, and brought them into the wilderness.

11 And I gave them my statutes, and shewed them my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them.

12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the Lord that sanctify them. Eze 20

Please explain how any of the above can mean the whole world.

All!Did you notice Jews only? No one else?Why did God include the stranger? Why was Ruth and the harlot of Canaan included? Why did the gentles keep it? Why were there no objections from the apostle about it? Again every man.

from scratch · Jun 22, 2014

Elder 111 said:
All!Did you notice Jews only? No one else?Why did God include the stranger? Why was Ruth and the harlot of Canaan included? Why did the gentles keep it? Why were there no objections from the apostle about it? Again every man.

Was Ruth dear present at Sinai? Or did she convert to Judaism? If she converted she was no longer a stranger and your argument fails. Yes you might say she wasn't circumcised and there by avoid Ex 12:48. There isn't any such requirement for women. You'll do anything to get around Ex 12:48. Why not just cut it out of your Bible? You can't cut it out of mine.

Is the seventh day the Sabbath?

Is the seventh day not the same as the Sabbath?

The Seventh day is God's continuous rest.

The seventh is a day just as the previous "eveings and mornings" of Genesis 1.

The bible clearly shows that the Seventh day is not The sabbath.

The Seventh day is the Sabbath as clearly shown in Exodus 20:10.

Not sure

Don't know

Don't care.

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