Is the self eternal?

[ananda]

If this is what you need to tell yourself, then fine.

If that is what you need to deny, then fine.

 

[ananda]

I do not know about any other self but my self is eternal as it had no discernible beginning and has no discernible ending. There was never a time when i did not exist and I cannot imagine that there will never be a time when I cease to exist.

What is the nature of this eternal self? If it is eternal, then it can never change, correct?

 

[Colter]

Can you define this "personality", if you know that it doesn't change?

No, personality must be experienced, I thought I said that already. In fact that seems a rather obvious thing for anyone to conclude.

 

[Eudaimonist]

I think you'll like it. It's not a show about zombies, it's a show about Human beings and their strengths and weaknesses which happens to be set in a zombie apocalypse.

Yes, I can see that already. The first ep is well written.

And Firefly is all about the individual against the collective, which is probably why it was cancelled after one season. Great story, fantastic photography, interesting characters but a message that I think Hollywood couldn't stomach.

I've seen Firefly, and I enjoyed that show. Too bad it was cancelled so quickly.

Incidentally, have you seen the movie The World's Fastest Indian. If you want to see the Objectivist concept of rational self interest and happiness made concrete, you'll see it by the end of the movie.

No, I'll have to check that out as well. Have you seen Disney's Tomorrowland? It's by the same director who made The Incredibles. I just saw it today at the suggestion of some Objectivists at Facebook.

It is quite good! I love its message of optimism and hope.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[ananda]

But not consciousness, I take it?


eudaimonia,

Mark

IMO "Self" is emergent from consciousness (and the others I listed in the OP); consciousness is also emergent, from intention.

 

[Colter]

Then it's subjective, isn't it?

Yes. "Man's contact with the highest objective reality, God, is only through the purely subjective experience of knowing him, of worshiping him, of realizing sonship with him." UB

 

[ananda]

I think there's some cases where the brain was severely diminished...but what remained compensated for much of what was missing. Living "normally" sounds a little subjective.

The brain is pretty remarkable and not entirely understood. There have been cases where comparatively little damage has severely crippled a person and comparatively large damage left little lasting effect on a person.

It's not up for debate where the "self" resides though. Monkey head transplants were done in the past during the early years of organ transplants and the brain unequivocally contains the self.

The brain, or the head?

 

[Colter]

You were being insensitive. You preach Christian love, but you don't know how to show it.


eudaimonia,

Mark

I'm sorry, I wasn't trying to be insensitive, It's truly shocking to me to hear people articulate their "all in" dedication to a godless life. Generally such people are theoretically out in the world, but to have an intelligent person with so much to offer point blank state their utter disregard for their heavenly Father is as I said truly sad. And the sheer resignation to death, it's such a terrible waste!

 

[ananda]

No, personality must be experienced, I thought I said that already. In fact that seems a rather obvious thing for anyone to conclude.

What is it about "personality" that must be experienced?

 

[Colter]

What is it about "personality" that must be experienced?

I see personality as deified reality. I don't know what words to use other than to say that each personality has a unique qualifier which sets it apart from all other. We all come from the Infinite personality who is a kind of reservoir of all reality.

 

[ananda]

Yes. "Man's contact with the highest objective reality, God, is only through the purely subjective experience of knowing him, of worshiping him, of realizing sonship with him." UB

I see personality as deified reality. I don't know what words to use other than to say that each personality has a unique qualifier which sets it apart from all other. We all come from the Infinite personality who is a kind of reservoir of all reality.

Sounds quite like Hinduism.

 

[Ana the Ist]

The brain, or the head?

The brain. In the case you linked to...the man still had a brain, it was just severely diminished. If it's the case I remember reading about, he was born that way. The idea was that over a lifetime his brain managed to compensate for its diminished capacity. The man did die of this complication though.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Lol, fun read

Thanks Till, I remember it as one of those rare threads where it's all discussion no argument.

What's the M&M song?

 

[Ana the Ist]

Great, thanks! I agree, we are endlessly changing, from one moment to the next. Buddhists would call this "ongoing rebirth".

That's a curious description...ongoing rebirth. To me, rebirth implies something of a clean slate.

I was a bit of a fan of Buddhism once...not any longer though.

 

[TillICollapse]

Thanks Till, I remember it as one of those rare threads where it's all discussion no argument.

What's the M&M song?

 

[ananda]

The brain. In the case you linked to...the man still had a brain, it was just severely diminished. If it's the case I remember reading about, he was born that way. The idea was that over a lifetime his brain managed to compensate for its diminished capacity. The man did die of this complication though.

Perhaps. I just find it personally hard to believe that a person could have an IQ of 126 with only "a millimeter thick layer of brain tissue" if the brain is as important as it is commonly believed to be.

 

[ananda]

That's a curious description...ongoing rebirth. To me, rebirth implies something of a clean slate.

I was a bit of a fan of Buddhism once...not any longer though.

We are in a constant state of change, whether thoughts, feelings, cells, etc. That's what I mean by ongoing rebirth.

What took you away from Buddhism, if I may ask?

 

[Ana the Ist]

Lol I probably should've looked it up before asking...

I never really listened to anything of his after the Slim Shady LP (which I still think is an amazing album) so I was a little curious.

 

[BL2KTN]

I would say we don't know enough yet, but I probably hope so. There's a hard problem with qualia that we have yet to answer.

 

[Ana the Ist]

We are in a constant state of change, whether thoughts, feelings, cells, etc. That's what I mean by ongoing rebirth.

What took you away from Buddhism, if I may ask?

Well, firstly let me admit that I never looked into it deeply. Secondly, let me confess that it's been about a solid 15-20 years since I've looked into it at all...so if what I say about it doesn't represent it in an entirely accurate manner, I'll ask your forgiveness.

When I learned about Buddha and his journey to enlightenment it was rather inspiring. The concept of desire being the root of suffering and the elimination of desire leading to enlightenment I interpreted as an allegory for the human condition. One of the defining characteristics of humanity is the ability to choose...the ability to deny our basest instincts. That kind of self-control, self-mastery, was appealing in a noble sort of way...especially to hormonally charged mind of a Midwestern white teen male. I actually began to wonder about the process, how to become above such base desires...

It wasn't long after much continual thinking about the topic that I began to realize it sounded pretty awful. What was the end goal? What would I become as i went along such a path? Suffering and desire are very much a part of my humanity...of the human experience itself. The path of Buddhism no longer looked as one of mastery but one of denial.

I began to look at the whole range of human experience as all being equally a part of humanity...my identity...and a real path to enlightenment/wisdom. Mastery being a result of treading each path of human experience...even those that many would deem undesirable. I began to see all knowledge having value and denial of self the worst kind of hypocrisy (granted, denial of self seems to be a strong theme in many religions, christianity included).

I could really go on and on about this, but I won't. That's the short version of my distaste for Buddhism.