Is the Rapture Deception?

Southernscotty · Nov 3, 2018

Rubiks said:
The word that is translated "air" refers to the visible, lower part of the atmosphere and is also a symbol of power (See Daniel chapter 7). The word that is translated "heaven" refers the upper, invisible part of the atmosphere (at least according to the cosmological beliefs at the time) and refers to the abode of God. With the exception of the accounts Enoch and Elijah, "Heaven" is never understood to be an eternal place of comfort. When most Christian mention "Heaven," they are referring to the Kingdom of God, which is the eternal reign of God on earth.

Strong's Greek: 3772. οὐρανός (ouranos) -- heaven
Strong's Greek: 109. ἀήρ (aér) -- air

Correct and we go into and through the air as we meet Jesus by His power.

Chris V++ · Nov 3, 2018

Devin P said:
So we see that, for example, the verse where two will be in a field, one taken the other left, you want to be the one that is left. You don't want to be taken, because to be taken, means you're not a wheat. Because as Matt 13:30 says, tares will be taken first, not wheat.

That's a really good point. So how does this fit with what food4 thought quoted:

food4thought said:
(16) For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. (17) Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. (18)

and also how does it mesh with the day of the Lord
' But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.'

Why will the Earth be destroyed and he elements melt with fervent heat if the Christians are not to be raptured?

If we are the wheat and thus not weeded out, then why is there a 'day of the Lord?' This seems like another contradiction.

Southernscotty · Nov 3, 2018

Look at the Jewish wedding tradition as this is the perfect model.
The Bridegroom finds the bride, [That will preach] goes home to prepare a place for them [Build a house] and then when it is finished, He returns for His bride and takes her away.

Why would Jesus pick His bride and let her be tormented and abused?
He won't, He is going to draw us believers out and we are going home

:]

BibleloverBill · Nov 3, 2018

Devin P said: ↑
So we see that, for example, the verse where two will be in a field, one taken the other left, you want to be the one that is left. You don't want to be taken, because to be taken, means you're not a wheat. Because as Matt 13:30 says, tares will be taken first, not wheat.

Chris V++ said:
That's a really good point. So how does this fit with what food4 thought quoted: and also how does it mesh with the day of the Lord
' But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.'

Why will the Earth be destroyed and he elements melt with fervent heat if the Christians are not to be raptured?

If we are the wheat and thus not weeded out, then why is there a 'day of the Lord?' This seems like another contradiction.

***The context of the Matthew 13:30 verse is not the End Times.
16 But blessed (happy, fortunate, and to be envied) are your eyes because they do see,
and your ears because they do hear.
17 Truly I tell you, many prophets and righteous men yearned to see what you see,
and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.
18 Listen then to the [meaning of the] parable of the sower:
19 While anyone is hearing the Word of the Kingdom
and does not grasp and comprehend it,
the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart.
This is what was sown along the roadside.
20 As for what was sown on thin (rocky) soil,
this is he who hears the Word and at once welcomes and accepts it with joy;
21 Yet it has no real root in him,
but is temporary (inconstant, lasts but a little while);
and when affliction or trouble or persecution comes on account of the Word,
at once he is caused to stumble
[he is repelled and begins to distrust and desert Him
Whom he ought to trust and obey]
and he falls away.
22 As for what was sown among thorns, this is he who hears the Word,
but the cares of the World and the pleasure and delight and glamour
and deceitfulness of riches choke and suffocate the Word,
and it yields no fruit.
23 As for what was sown on good soil,
this is he who hears the Word and grasps and comprehends it;
he indeed bears fruit and yields
in one case a hundred times as much as was sown,
in another sixty times as much,
and in another thirty.”
24 Another parable He set forth before them, saying,
“The Kingdom of Heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field.
25 But while he was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed also darnel
(weeds resembling wheat)
among the wheat, and went on his way.
26 So when the plants sprouted and formed grain, the darnel (weeds) appeared also.
27 And the servants of the owner came to him and said,
‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field?
Then how does it have darnel shoots in it?’
28 He replied to them, ‘An enemy has done this.'
The servants said to him, ‘Then do you want us to go and weed them out?’
29 But he said,
‘No, lest in gathering the wild wheat (weeds resembling wheat),
you root up the [true] wheat along with it.
30 Let them grow together until the harvest;
and at harvest time I will say to the reapers,
“Gather the darnel first and bind it in bundles to be burned,
but gather the wheat into my granary.”’”
31 Another story by way of comparison He set forth before them, saying,
“The Kingdom of Heaven is like a grain of mustard seed,
which a man took and sowed in his field.
32 Of all the seeds it is the smallest,
but when it has grown it is the largest of the garden herbs and becomes a tree,
so that the birds of the air come and find shelter in its branches.”
33 He told them another parable:
“The Kingdom of Heaven is like leaven (sour dough)
which a woman took and covered over in three measures of meal or flour
till all of it was leavened.”
34 These things all taken together Jesus said to the crowds in parables;
indeed, without a parable He said nothing to them.
35 This was in fulfillment of what was spoken by the Prophet:
“I will open My mouth in parables;
I will utter things that have been hidden since the foundation of the World.” (Psalm 78:2)

ewq1938 · Nov 3, 2018

The idea of a pretrib rapture took place back in Paul's day due to people misunderstanding something he said.

1Th 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

He shouldn't even have to speak of these things because he would have told them in person when he was with them but for some reason he decides in fact to re-tell them this:

1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

This is it. The idea that Christ could come suddenly without any warning before the tribulation and Antichrist etc is what started the Pre-trib concept. This one sentence will be misunderstood and the idea that Christ could come at any time, even before the tribulation happens, is born. The facts are that Christ cannot and will not just suddenly appear because there are major events that have to take place first before he arrives but those who are unsaved and spiritually blind won't know this and so the second coming will surprise them without warning as a thief in the night but not those who are awake and watching for the right signs.

1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
1Th 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

And this is the part that was missed or ignored. Christ only comes suddenly, without any warning to those who are deceived, in darkness, and are worshiping a false god in the tribulation. Christ's actual appearance will be sudden and shocking to them! But not to us!

1Th 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
1Th 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
1Th 5:7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night

So the confusion about Christ appearing suddenly at any moment reached Paul and he wrote a second letter to explain what he meant in the first one!

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

He is saying DO NOT BE WORRIED THAT CHRIST CAN JUST SUDDENLY RETURN AND SURPRISE YOU!

Look at his words:

1. by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ

That is the second coming!

2. and by our gathering together unto him

That is the rapture!

3. that ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

Don't be worried that the second coming and the rapture "is at hand" meaning they could happen right away instead of after the tribulation as Christ said in the gospels.

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

There are major things that happen first which will let the faithful know the return of Christ is soon! That is mainly the Tribulation and Apostasy where essentially the whole world, all religions and even Atheists, will believe in this person who will claim and seem to be God! I believe he will claim to be Jesus Christ leading so many astray.

So Paul has just said don't be worried that the second coming and rapture can happen before the tribulation and the Apostasy led by the Antichrist! IE: a pre-trib rapture is not true, right from the mouth of Paul himself.

2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

Now he has to remind them...but some will never let go of this "any moment" doctrine that Christ can return suddenly to "rapture the Church away".

The Bible makes it clear that there is no pre-tribulation rapture. The tribulation and the appearance of the Antichrist will come first before any rapture takes place. Scripture speaks of the same order of events elsewhere:

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

Context is the second coming!

1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

Context is the second coming!

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

This is the second coming!

1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

So, the proper order of events according to scripture:

1. the second coming begins/Christ leaves heaven. (1Th 4:16) (this doesn't happen until the tribulation has ended, Mat_24:29)
2. the resurrection. (dead saints resurrect bodily in heaven and follow Christ as he returns to the Earth-second coming) (1Th 4:14-16)
3. the rapture. (living saints on Earth are gathered together from where ever they are on the Earth in order to meet Christ in the clouds when he arrives)(1Th 4:17)
This proves the pre-trib (and mid-trib) rapture to be false because the second coming comes after the tribulation not before or during it, Mat 24:29-30

A rapture before the tribulation is impossible according to Mat 24:29-30, and a rapture before the second coming is impossible according to 1Th 4:13-17.

So, the proper order of events according to scripture including Mat_24:29:

1. the great tribulation ends. (Mat_24:29)
2. the second coming begins/Christ leaves heaven. (1Th 4:16, Mat_24:30)
3. the resurrection. (dead saints resurrect bodily in heaven and follow Christ as he returns to the Earth-second coming) (1Th 4:14-16)
4. the rapture. (living saints on Earth are gathered together from where ever they are on the Earth in order to meet Christ in the clouds when he arrives)(1Th 4:17)

Again we see that certain events must happen first before a rapture takes place!

food4thought · Nov 3, 2018

Southernscotty said:
Look at the Jewish wedding tradition as this is the perfect model.
The Bridegroom finds the bride, [That will preach] goes home to prepare a place for them [Build a house] and then when it is finished, He returns for His bride and takes her away.

Why would Jesus pick His bride and let her be tormented and abused?
He won't, He is going to draw us believers out and we are going home :]

Hi, Southernscotty. It is not just about His bride being tortured and abused, as this has happened throughout history to the church. It is about who is doling out the torment and abuse! The tribulation is largely about God's wrath being poured out... He is the one that is punishing the unbelieving world.

Southernscotty · Nov 3, 2018

food4thought said:
Hi, Southernscotty. It is not just about His bride being tortured and abused, as this has happened throughout history to the church. It is about who is doling out the torment and abuse! The tribulation is largely about God's wrath being poured out... He is the one that is punishing the unbelieving world.

That is true, I should have written that a little differently. God is throwing out wrath and He wouldn't do that to His beloved bride. Thank You for pointing that out friend :]

Kerensa · Nov 3, 2018

Devin P said:
Today it's a very common teaching. I'd almost dare to say that the majority of modern day christians believe it to be true. There's even that incredibly popular series called Left Behind that talks about it.

Absolutely not true, sorry. Very few Christians worldwide believe in the rapture. It's a relatively recent theological invention that mainly appeals to certain particularly American brands of Christianity.

More here: How many Christians believe in the rapture?

Chris V++ · Nov 3, 2018

BibleloverBill said:
The context of the Matthew 13:30 verse is not the End Times.

BibleloverBill said:
30 Let them grow together until the harvest; and at harvest time I will say to the reapers,
“Gather the darnel first and bind it in bundles to be burned,
but gather the wheat into my granary.”’”

I don't understand how it's not about the end times when the verses are talking about the harvest. But your quoted scriptures do say the wheat will be put into His granary, which does support the rapture model. The one 'taken' will be 'taken' to the granary (figuratively speaking) and the one left will be left to be burnt in the fire? So the op's original statement;
"You don't want to be taken, because to be taken, means you're not a wheat. Because as Matt 13:30 says, tares will be taken first, not wheat," doesn't account for the wheat being 'taken' to the granary and there is no apparent contradiction.

Chris V++ · Nov 3, 2018

ewq1938 said:
So, the proper order of events according to scripture including Mat_24:29:

1. the great tribulation ends. (Mat_24:29)
2. the second coming begins/Christ leaves heaven. (1Th 4:16, Mat_24:30)
3. the resurrection. (dead saints resurrect bodily in heaven and follow Christ as he returns to the Earth-second coming) (1Th 4:14-16)
4. the rapture. (living saints on Earth are gathered together from where ever they are on the Earth in order to meet Christ in the clouds when he arrives)(1Th 4:17)

Again we see that certain events must happen first before a rapture takes place!

Thanks for taking the time to clarify this complicated subject. Could you recommend a resource that explains current events in terms of end times prophesy so succinctly. I used listen to David Jeremiah who seemed to have some amazing insights although I think he was arguing a pretrib rapture. I've heard sermons about the prophesy and the reemergence of Russia as a super power and their being allied with Turkey and Iran. etc. It's just hard to get a firm grip on the subject when there seem to be so many schools of thought.

ItIsFinished! · Nov 3, 2018

Kerensa said:
Absolutely not true, sorry. Very few Christians worldwide believe in the rapture. It's a relatively recent theological invention that mainly appeals to certain particularly American brands of Christianity.

More here: How many Christians believe in the rapture?

It isn't a recent theological invention .
The mystery regarding the removal of the Church was given to the Apostle Paul to write about.
That definitely isn't recent.
And many in the early Church taught and spoke of a "rapture " of the Church.
Papias (60-130)
Clement of Rome (90-100)
The Shepherd of Hermas (96-150)
Ignatius of Antioch (98-117)
Barnabas (100)
The Didache (100-160)
Justin Martyr (110-165)
The Epistle of Barnabas (117-138)
Irenaeus (120-202)
Tertullian (145-220)
Hippolytus (185-236)
Cyprian (200-250)
Lactantius (260-330)

Some of the above mentioned had direct contact with the apostles.
The doctrine of a pre-trib removal of the Church (Rapture) permeated the early Church.
Good , sound , and orthodox believers have taught this view way before the 1,800's time period.

It is confusing or non accepting for many due to several reasons.
1. Replacement theology which teaches the Church replaces Israel. (It doesn't)
2. Dual hermenutics . Taking scripture spiritually at times and literally at others .
3. Not taking the earthly 1,000 reign of Christ literally.
4. Confusion about the resurrection of the just .
5. Confusion about the wheat and tares.
6. Confusion about the Lord meeting the Church in the air/ clouds with The Second Coming of Christ where He literally sets foot on the Mount of Olives.
Two separate, marvelous, awesome, distinct events which have not come to pass YET.
7. Not realizing the calendar and order of events that is to come.

At this present juncture , the next event on God's calendar is the removal of The Church, which can happened at any moment.
The dead in Christ (all believers who have died since Pentacost) will resurrect and present believers will meet the Lord in the air/clouds , receive glorified bodies and be with the Lord forever!
Amen!
We should be rejoicing .
Paul didn't write 1st Thessalonians 4:16-17 to confuse anyone (God is not the author of confusion) but rather to encourage them and excite them , and prepare them.
All their brothers and sisters in Christ that had passed away (since Pentacost) will still be partakers of the inheritance and blessings.

God never intended this to be such a controversial doctrine.

All glory be to God now and forever!
Amen!
⚘

Devin P · Nov 3, 2018

Chris V++ said:
That's a really good point. So how does this fit with what food4 thought quoted:

and also how does it mesh with the day of the Lord
' But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.'

Why will the Earth be destroyed and he elements melt with fervent heat if the Christians are not to be raptured?

If we are the wheat and thus not weeded out, then why is there a 'day of the Lord?' This seems like another contradiction.

Well, the verses food4 thought quoted, talk of the resurrection. This time period, is after the tribulation, and after the wrath of God. This is after the wicked one has pressed the saints, and after God's wrath lays waste the earth.

Those few men that are surviving, the ones that love God, will be destroyed. Destroyed you say? Yes. No flesh can inherit the kingdom of God. We must be destroyed, so that we can be raised again, in an incorruptible body. The dead in Christ it talks about, will be raised to an incorruptible body before those left alive will be.

Then, the earth and such will be destroyed by the Glory of God's Presence. At this point however, the wheat, will be able to abide in His Presence, whereas they wouldn't of been able to if they weren't given incorruptible bodies. But, since now they would have been given new incorruptible bodies, they can stand in His Presence, unlike the rest of creation, which will be destroyed.

It's why God deals with His Creation using only His Arm, His Name, our Savior. It's an extension of Him, that is Him, but not entirely Him. It's the aspect of Himself used to bring us back to Him.

Blade · Nov 3, 2018

"Here we see Jesus saying that His chosen, will still be on earth. That the unrighteous will be taken from among them."

How in the WORLD does one see this? Jesus told ALL that believe in Him..He was going BACK to His Fathers house to make US a home. True? Jesus said..if He goes He will come back and get us so WHERE..where did He go? BACK to His Fathers house so WHERE He is we WILL not maybe not stuck on earth.. but WHERE I AM you WILL WILL be. He adds to that.. WHERE I go you know., WHERE did He go?

Now.. does this GOD lie? Make up? Jest about things? No...so He said.. I WILL come back and get you... He told YOU/US you were all sleeping....you ALL woke up. Now.. SOME of you are ready...SOME of you are not. That door will open....SOME WILL go in.. SOME will not.

We all read His word. We all KNOW Christ will be seen in the AIR not on the Earth. We WILL see dead rise.. we will then be changed.. we then will go with them. To be with Christ forever. Now.. what NO MAN can say is WHEN. No where in the word of God does say unrighteous will be taken.. The only ones that have EVER been TAKEN were those that WALKED with God aka Righteous.

No where does it say PRE TRIB...MID TRIB...POST TRIB. Those that say other wise are NOT telling the truth. They tell you what they personally believe. That is NOT Gods word. So if you KNOW you were not promised tomorrow.. why are you worrying about it? Live for HIM today.. TODAY is all you have. Today NOW is when He will come. So..some have oil and are watching and ready.. some are not. And same as with salvation.. one MUST believe and be ready..

For me.. HE said HE will come get me. WHY would I listen to some man/woman that has the SAME EXACT INFO that I have.. then ADD to that.. then SPECULATE and call that truth? Its not..

Again.. all we have is Christs words. And HOLY JESUS I take HIM at HIS word. He is coming and He to this day has (SONG PLAYING..there is POWER In the NAME OF JESUS) never told ANYONE when He is coming. Christ nor ANY in heaven try to GUESS at this. Dont have to.. He is coming.. I look for Him ready now..

ItIsFinished! · Nov 3, 2018

Blade said:
"Here we see Jesus saying that His chosen, will still be on earth. That the unrighteous will be taken from among them."

How in the WORLD does one see this? Jesus told ALL that believe in Him..He was going BACK to His Fathers house to make US a home. True? Jesus said..if He goes He will come back and get us so WHERE..where did He go? BACK to His Fathers house so WHERE He is we WILL not maybe not stuck on earth.. but WHERE I AM you WILL WILL be. He adds to that.. WHERE I go you know., WHERE did He go?

Now.. does this GOD lie? Make up? Jest about things? No...so He said.. I WILL come back and get you... He told YOU/US you were all sleeping....you ALL woke up. Now.. SOME of you are ready...SOME of you are not. That door will open....SOME WILL go in.. SOME will not.

We all read His word. We all KNOW Christ will be seen in the AIR not on the Earth. We WILL see dead rise.. we will then be changed.. we then will go with them. To be with Christ forever. Now.. what NO MAN can say is WHEN. No where in the word of God does say unrighteous will be taken.. The only ones that have EVER been TAKEN were those that WALKED with God aka Righteous.

No where does it say PRE TRIB...MID TRIB...POST TRIB. Those that say other wise are NOT telling the truth. They tell you what they personally believe. That is NOT Gods word. So if you KNOW you were not promised tomorrow.. why are you worrying about it? Live for HIM today.. TODAY is all you have. Today NOW is when He will come. So..some have oil and are watching and ready.. some are not. And same as with salvation.. one MUST believe and be ready..

For me.. HE said HE will come get me. WHY would I listen to some man/woman that has the SAME EXACT INFO that I have.. then ADD to that.. then SPECULATE and call that truth? Its not..

Again.. all we have is Christs words. And HOLY JESUS I take HIM at HIS word. He is coming and He to this day has (SONG PLAYING..there is POWER In the NAME OF JESUS) never told ANYONE when He is coming. Christ nor ANY in heaven try to GUESS at this. Dont have to.. He is coming.. I look for Him ready now..

I love the excitement you have .
I must say that you cannot say if one states it is a pre-trib removal of the Church they are not telling the truth , because in fact The Word of God states that the Church will be removed (raptured) before The Day of The Lord happens which is the tribulation.
No one knows the exact time , but before the tribulation. It can be next second, minute, day, week, month, year, ect...

BibleloverBill · Nov 3, 2018

Southernscotty said:
That is true, I should have written that a little differently. God is throwing out wrath and He wouldn't do that to His beloved bride. Thank You for pointing that out friend :]

But now, God is allowing humankind to do tribulation against each other. It will get worse and worse and worse. Christians are not spared from such, but they can still have the divine peace and even divine joy during the toughest times of such. Romans 14:17

BibleloverBill · Nov 3, 2018

Kerensa said:
Absolutely not true, sorry. Very few Christians worldwide believe in the rapture. It's a relatively recent theological invention that mainly appeals to certain particularly American brands of Christianity.

More here: How many Christians believe in the rapture?

I am a 71-years-old USAer, who has spent 8 years in Germany and made 6 trips in Nigeria with a year of living there. I did read the report of the link. I would say as it implied that the USA has a very high percentage of pre-Trib rapture believers, but the rest of the World is a very low-percentage. I have challenged many individuals why should USA Christians have favored status of avoiding the World-wide tribulation before God's Wrath (which they are spared from) when they have led the World in abortions and homosexuality and many other sins that God hates.

BibleloverBill · Nov 3, 2018

Chris V++ said:
I don't understand how it's not about the end times when the verses are talking about the harvest. But your quoted scriptures do say the wheat will be put into His granary, which does support the rapture model. The one 'taken' will be 'taken' to the granary (figuratively speaking) and the one left will be left to be burnt in the fire? So the op's original statement;
"You don't want to be taken, because to be taken, means you're not a wheat. Because as Matt 13:30 says, tares will be taken first, not wheat," doesn't account for the wheat being 'taken' to the granary and there is no apparent contradiction.

Because they are just parables. That kind of harvesting has been happening in all of humankind history and Jesus is explaining how the Kingdom of God or Church is being formed.

BibleloverBill · Nov 3, 2018

ItIsFinished! said:
It isn't a recent theological invention .
The mystery regarding the removal of the Church was given to the Apostle Paul to write about.
That definitely isn't recent.
And many in the early Church taught and spoke of a "rapture " of the Church.
Papias (60-130)
Clement of Rome (90-100)
The Shepherd of Hermas (96-150)
Ignatius of Antioch (98-117)
Barnabas (100)
The Didache (100-160)
Justin Martyr (110-165)
The Epistle of Barnabas (117-138)
Irenaeus (120-202)
Tertullian (145-220)
Hippolytus (185-236)
Cyprian (200-250)
Lactantius (260-330)

Some of the above mentioned had direct contact with the apostles.
The doctrine of a pre-trib removal of the Church (Rapture) permeated the early Church.
Good , sound , and orthodox believers have taught this view way before the 1,800's time period.

It is confusing or non accepting for many due to several reasons.
1. Replacement theology which teaches the Church replaces Israel. (It doesn't)
2. Dual hermenutics . Taking scripture spiritually at times and literally at others .
3. Not taking the earthly 1,000 reign of Christ literally.
4. Confusion about the resurrection of the just .
5. Confusion about the wheat and tares.
6. Confusion about the Lord meeting the Church in the air/ clouds with The Second Coming of Christ where He literally sets foot on the Mount of Olives.
Two separate, marvelous, awesome, distinct events which have not come to pass YET.
7. Not realizing the calendar and order of events that is to come.

At this present juncture , the next event on God's calendar is the removal of The Church, which can happened at any moment.
The dead in Christ (all believers who have died since Pentacost) will resurrect and present believers will meet the Lord in the air/clouds , receive glorified bodies and be with the Lord forever!
Amen!
We should be rejoicing .
Paul didn't write 1st Thessalonians 4:16-17 to confuse anyone (God is not the author of confusion) but rather to encourage them and excite them , and prepare them.
All their brothers and sisters in Christ that had passed away (since Pentacost) will still be partakers of the inheritance and blessings.

God never intended this to be such a controversial doctrine.

All glory be to God now and forever!
Amen!
⚘

***Not the pre-Trib rapture theory. Read previous posts about why that theory cannot be true. It is only emphasized in the United States, nowhere else.

I wrote this a long time ago:
The Pre-Trib Rapture theory was based on a dream by a teenager in 1830 Most who believe it say the rapture will occur at Revelation 4 because John said he was caught up. But the 1 Corinthians 15 mentions the last trump, Also there are two kinds of tribulation: one is what is happening in Muslim countries and happened in Stalin's, Genghis Kahn's and Mao's, and Hitler's times. Minor tribulation is happening in the lives of those with severe health, financial, or/and family problems. The second kind of tribulation is the coming Great Tribulation. Chaos in the whole wide World can happen with even a small amount of horrible happenings. Even 2, 9/11 and Katrina, paralyzed the USA in different ways; the former had all airplanes grounded etc. But what would nuclear bombs do as EMTs or in small brief cases dirty bombs planted in various cities. What about chemical and biological warfare in many places? What about many "natural disasters" all happening at one time? But true Christians are not spared from tribulation, but they are spared from God's Wrath.

And pre-Trib, mid-Trib, and post-Trib theories are just theories. Internationally, the pre Trib rapture theory has not caught on. When has the majority even in one country been right and why should the USA be spared from judgment? The abortion and the homosexual problems are bad enough and so the USA deserves the worse judgment before God’s Wrath. I just encourage others that we should just be living for God instead of self (having the right faith in the Full Gospel) so that we are ready for death or the rapture. And there is no evidence that the rapture results in all true Christians being in Heaven for a thousand years. I believe that when Jesus Christ returns, the Earth being put on fire will happen after the rapture of the righteous dead and alive. And the Earth will be recreated into paradise with the New Jerusalem coming down to where Jerusalem is now. What a Day that will be. Did you hear about panmillenialism? It will all pan-out in the end. Scripture says that we should avoid vain disputes and Jesus Christ said the World will know who are His disciples by their unselfish love for one another. Where are the churches that manifest the Fruit of the Spirit, Philippians 2:1-5, and Ephesians 4:11-16? The condition of most current Christian churches' problems especially of arrogance and wrong judging of others is actually worse than the horrible politics and media of lying and hate. Christians should at least be living the Golden Rule and being good examples to the politicians and liberal media reporters/commentators.

And what is the Full Gospel that we should be sharing?

ItIsFinished! · Nov 3, 2018

BibleloverBill said:
I am a 71-years-old USAer, who has spent 8 years in Germany and made 6 trips in Nigeria with a year of living there. I did read the report of the link. I would say as it implied that the USA has a very high percentage of pre-Trib rapture believers, but the rest of the World is a very low-percentage. I have challenged many individuals why should USA Christians have favored status of avoiding the World-wide tribulation before God's Wrath (which they are spared from) when they have led the World in abortions and homosexuality and many other sins that God hates.

You are correct about the last sentence in your post and it has always bothered me.
But, the rapture is the removal of the Church not Americans, although many Americans are part of the Church.
One of many blessings as a new (saved) creature in Christ is that we will not be here during the 7 year tribulation. However , multitudes will receive Jesus Christ as Saviour (Amen!) during that time and will have to endure the tribulation (with the grace of God) others will be martyrs for refusing to worship the Beast (Anti-Christ) .

BibleloverBill · Nov 3, 2018

Devin P said:
Well, the verses food4 thought quoted, talk of the resurrection. This time period, is after the tribulation, and after the wrath of God. This is after the wicked one has pressed the saints, and after God's wrath lays waste the earth.

Those few men that are surviving, the ones that love God, will be destroyed. Destroyed you say? Yes. No flesh can inherit the kingdom of God. We must be destroyed, so that we can be raised again, in an incorruptible body. The dead in Christ it talks about, will be raised to an incorruptible body before those left alive will be.

Then, the earth and such will be destroyed by the Glory of God's Presence. At this point however, the wheat, will be able to abide in His Presence, whereas they wouldn't of been able to if they weren't given incorruptible bodies. But, since now they would have been given new incorruptible bodies, they can stand in His Presence, unlike the rest of creation, which will be destroyed.

It's why God deals with His Creation using only His Arm, His Name, our Savior. It's an extension of Him, that is Him, but not entirely Him. It's the aspect of Himself used to bring us back to Him.

???
Where does all of that come from?

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