Is the Partial Pre-terist View Not The Most Accurate Viewpoint?

[claninja]

Once again, what was the abomination involved? Once Jesus died and rose, that technically made this 2nd temple obsolete at that point. An abomination concerning an obsolete temple makes no sense IMO.

An abomination that causes desolation of a temple that is obsolete, but still run by an unfaithful people who murdered the prophets, disciples, and son of God in order to fulfill:

because these are days of vengeance, to fulfil all things that have been written.
Luke 21:22 - Bible Gateway passage: Luke 21:22 - Young's Literal Translation

And:

that on you may come all the righteous blood being poured out on the earth from the blood of Abel the righteous, unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the sanctuary and the altar: verily I say to you, all these things shall come upon this generation. Lo, left desolate to you is your house;
Matthew 23:35-36,38 - Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 23:35-36, Matthew 23:38 - Young's Literal Translation

Makes complete sense.

What about it doesn’t make sense?

 

[precepts]

That's OK. I know with all the bunk flying back and forth, I am never really too sure, myself, who believes what.

Try again. I edited the post after I found the mix up. I didn't misread.

 

[precepts]

What don't you believe that I said? Keep in mind, I'm disputing an historic fulfillment of the AOD. And if some are claiming it's already been fulfilled, I'm inquiring as to what the AOD was then, as in proof it's been fulfilled by describing exactly what the AOD was.

Of course I have read the book of Daniel. Doesn't mean I claim to have perfect understanding of the book then. To even begin to grasp what Jesus was meaning in Matthew 24, that requires that one reads more than just the 2 last verses in Daniel 9 though. The AOD is also connected with Daniel 8, Daniel 11, and Daniel 12, meaning where it is specifically mentioned. And in none of these other 3 chapters here do I ever get the impression from the texts involved, that it has anything to do with the 2nd temple in the first century. Nor do I get the impression it involved any temples prior to the 2nd temple either. Clearly it is connected with endtimes events and is not meant to be taken in the literal sense, as if it actually involves brick and mortar temples.

My bad, I misinterpreted "1st century" for "old testament." I thought you were saying you didn't know what the AoD was in the old testament, my bad.

But you're right on point with that 1st century AoD question though.

 

[DreamerOfTheHeart]

The Emperor's New Clothes Chris-tianity (what I call all the so-called miracle working TV evangelists and churches who preach heaven on earth and the return of Israelis) equals the spirit of antichrist, which equals the so-called early church fathers and the so-called early church history, all balled up into one.

1Jo 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.​

There's no such thing as church ages. That church age nonsense is a lie straight from the pit of hell.

Very good! The Lord, our Father, really has blessed you. I can tell.

 

[DreamerOfTheHeart]

Yes

Ah hah, you caught me. ;-)

 

[DavidPT]

What on earth do you NOT see about the Roman Army (that totally "desolated" the Jewish system of animal sacrifice in 70 AD) being an abomination? Gentiles (Romans) were never even allowed to set one foot inside the Temple. For them to not only overrun the Temple, violating every inch of it by simply BEING there, but also killing all the priests and burning the whole place to the ground could certainly be seen as nothing but a COMPLETE ABOMINATION causing desolation.

So where do you fit the following in with your view of the AOD being connected to 70 AD?

Matthew 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

In verse 29 the tribulation of those days obviously include the events recorded in Matthew 24:23-26. The text goes on to indicate---the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken, immediately after the tribulation of those days. If the trib of those days are meaning the events connected with 70 AD, in what way, after those days were in the past, did the sun become darkened, and the moon did not give her light, and the stars fell from heaven, and the powers of the heavens were shaken, in the first century?

And speaking of these things, should one really be taking some of these things literally? And let's say one doesn't take the parts about the sun being darkened literally, yet takes the other parts literally, in regards to it having to do with a literal temple in Jerusalem in the first century, how is that one being consistent in his or her interpreting of the Discourse?

 

[precepts]

Very good! The Lord, our Father, really has blessed you. I can tell.

Yeah. There's more to come. I've read the book cover to cover like a book at least 8 times and I'm starting to piece everything together, including the spirit of antichrist and what that entails.

The truth's been asleep for too long allowing the antichrist spirit to hijack it and it's time to take it back.

Satan's alive and is in the world faking it out.

 

[DreamerOfTheHeart]

Yeah. There's more to come. I've read the book cover to cover like a book at least 8 times and I'm starting to piece everything together, including the spirit of antichrist and what that entails.

The truth's been asleep for too long allowing the antichrist spirit to hijack it and it's time to take it back.

Satan's alive and is in the world faking it out.

People are asleep, yes. As if in cocoons is how I see it. I will tell you one secret I found: sleep is directly related to death. This is why trying to conquer sleep is so much harder then conquering thirst and hunger.

 

[precepts]

People are asleep, yes. As if in cocoons is how I see it. I will tell you one secret I found: sleep is directly related to death. This is why trying to conquer sleep is so much harder then conquering thirst and hunger.

Try waking up to the reality that the world and Chris-tianity are illusions, because we live among devils, a fact Chris-tianity can't acknowledge.

We live in a world where we think everybody's of God, ignorant of God, and needing to be saved. But in reality we are living in hell, among devils that can and will never be saved, that we think are just regular human beings, most of them preaching the gospel the antichrist way, which is my point.

I'm bringing it all to the forefront, what I'm going to reveal to the world using the Word.

"For if they were of us, they would have remained with us [in the Word]."

That is who they are, and what Christ was talking about when He spoke of the many antichrists already in the world. Devils in the flesh, perverting the Word, as were the Pharisees, Sadducees, and many others.

It's time to wake up to the fact and the truth, and take Christ-tianity back. There are too many idle talk and unfound doctrines.

 

[claninja]

So where do you fit the following in with your view of the AOD being connected to 70 AD?

Matthew 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

In verse 29 the tribulation of those days obviously include the events recorded in Matthew 24:23-26. The text goes on to indicate---the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken, immediately after the tribulation of those days. If the trib of those days are meaning the events connected with 70 AD, in what way, after those days were in the past, did the sun become darkened, and the moon did not give her light, and the stars fell from heaven, and the powers of the heavens were shaken, in the first century?

And speaking of these things, should one really be taking some of these things literally? And let's say one doesn't take the parts about the sun being darkened literally, yet takes the other parts literally, in regards to it having to do with a literal temple in Jerusalem in the first century, how is that one being consistent in his or her interpreting of the Discourse?

This is a great point. Is the olivet discourse all spiritual? all literal? half spiritual and half literal? If it is half spiritual and half literal, where do we draw the line? Typically, one's eschatological view will determine what they believe about the olivet discourse.

I recommend looking at the language to see if there is any parallels with old testament scripture.

For example, Is Jesus quoting any OT scripture when he states this?:
Matthew 24:29
“Immediately after the distress of those days “ ‘the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shake

He is in fact. Jesus is quoting Isaiah 13:10 For the stars of the heavens and their constellations
will not give their light; the sun will be dark at its rising, and the moon will not shed its light.

And what is Isaiah 13:10 referencing? It is referencing Judgment on Babylon by the Medes:
Isaiah 13:17 Behold, I am stirring up the Medes against them (babylon)

Did the stars, sun, and moon literally stop shedding light during the destruction of Babylon? Or is this apocalyptic language used to describe the judgement on Babylon, which was common for the time period by not just Israel, but other Mesopotamian tribes?

_______________________________________________________________

How about Matthew 24:30? Is Jesus quoting any OT scripture:
Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

He is in fact. He is quoting Daniel 7:13-14
I saw in the night visions, and behold, with the clouds of heaven there came one like a son of man,
and he came to the Ancient of Days and was presented before him. And to him was given dominion
and glory and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve him;his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom one that shall not be destroyed.

Did Jesus come on the clouds of heaven during the disciples generation? In other words, did Jesus ascend to the father to receive a kingdom, power, and glory?