Is the law "done away " and abolished I mean the ten commandments? for believers?

[listed]

Christ altered NOTHING concerning 'the law' for God's chosen people. He simply fulfilled His Father's LAW.

God has NEVER offered commandments that are void now. He simply chose a certain people to be HIS CHOSEN. All are NOT His chosen.

But I will offer this: God has NEVER offered what is BEST for His children and then 'changed His mind'. That is a ridiculous concept and only able to exist among those children that are insistent upon REBELLION.

If God gave instruction that was true five thousand years ago, it is just as true today as it ever will be.

The difference between the LAW delivered to the Hebrews and the covenant that we are ALL under now is 'sacrifice'. They were required to offer physical sacrifice of the 'material' and now we have Christ as the ULTIMATE sacrifice. We have a form of forgiveness that didn't exist BEFORE Christ.

But what we NEED TO DO hasn't ever changed. What is 'righteous' will never change except in the minds and hearts of those that 'don't get it'.

Both sides that FOCUS on the opposite sides of this issue are confused. It is not 'one way or the other'. It is BOTH sides balanced equally in understanding.

There are laws that were given the Hebrews/Jews SPECIFIC to the Hebrews/Jews. But the ten commandments were NOT THAT LAW.

The ten commandments are as valid today as EVER. The ONLY difference is that we have a different FORM of forgiveness than what was necessary before.

Breaking certain commandments given to the Hebrews/Jews often required immediate DEATH. Death by STONING was the most common.

We are NOT under that form of punishment today. Christ DIED for those sins so that we do not have to. That was the MAIN reason that the 'temple' was destroyed. It was mandatory for crimes requiring the death penalty to be determined IN the temple by those that were the LEADERS in the temple.

So today we are still to FOLLOW the truth regardless of God finding a BETTER way to deal with our SINS.

It is still wrong to steal, bear false witness, create graven images, covet the property of others, take the Lord's name in vain etc,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,. The ONLY difference is the price we are to pay NOW verses then. it is as WRONG to break these commandments TODAY as it was the day they were delivered to God's PEOPLE.

Each and every person that professes to be a follower of God through Christ should DO what they have been instructed to do and NOT DO what they have been instructed not to do.

Food laws, cleanliness laws, these were given long ago to a small group of people in order to ensure their survival. Do they apply today? They certainly still have the ability to protect people from sickness and disease.

But we, as a PEOPLE, are no longer BOUND to such laws 'as sin'. They were fulfilled in Christ.

Peter struggled with the concept. It was hard for him to 'let go' of what he had spent his lifetime believing. It took a direct vision from God to convince him of the 'truth'.

But what God revealed as 'righteous' through His commandments is no LESS righteous today than it was thousands of years ago when delivered. And the punishment for sin is still DEATH. Christ fulfilled that punishment for those willing to accept it.

But that doesn't FREE us TO sin, it frees us FROM sin.

Blessings,

MEC

Your post doesn't sound like you're a seeker.

 

[listed]

Let me offer this as well: EVERYTHING offered in the Bible is 'good'. It is for our edification. Our understanding. If there were no REASON for offering what we read, it wouldn't be there.

Where we struggle most is in understanding. We continue to SIN and therefore try and eliminate the 'sin' we read of in the Bible. Since it is so difficult to live without sin, we try to convince ourselves that it's OK to sin. The more we do this the harder it is to ever even TRY to overcome sin in our lives. We become more and more LIBERAL to the point that we have often reverted BACK to what we were before first coming to Christ. We cannot DO IT OURSELVES.

It is only through Christ that we have a "chance" to follow. And it IS His example that we are use in determining HOW we live our lives. But not merely emulating for the sake of mimicry. We NEED to understand the 'why'.

I know that most believe that they know what 'love' is. But in truth, it is my opinion that most don't really have any idea of what it means. For most allow the 'flesh' to dominate understanding that the only love the flesh knows is 'self love'.

Most of us spend MOST of our time battling against each other. That clearly shows that 'love' is not present in our hearts.

The battle isn't against 'each other'. The battle is against the TRUE enemy. Darkness. The Devil. Satan in all his self proclaimed glory.

Blessings,

MEC

I suggest you don't understand the war between our old nature and our new nature or that the body isn't physically dead. This is covered very well in Romans 7-12.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Jesus is referencing the law concerning Him as Luke 24:44 reveals.

The Old Law is no more and the New Law (New Testament Commands) is now in effect. The Old Law, the prophets, and the Psalms concerning Jesus (or the reveal of Christ) point to his sacrifice and who He is. But the Old Law as a whole or package deal is no longer authoritative. Yes, the Moral Law from the Old Law still exists, but it is slightly different today than it was back then. We are told to excusively love our enemies now, turn the other cheek if we are smitten, and to give to the poor in such a way that did not exist before. In other words, love is taken to a whole new level with following the Lord now.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I suggest you don't understand the war between our old nature and our new nature or that the body isn't physically dead. This is covered very well in Romans 7-12.

I believe Paul was recounting his past experience as a Pharisee in Romans 7:14-24.

For Paul says later,

“But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.” (Romans 13:14).

 

[listed]

I believe Paul was recounting his past experience as a Pharisee in Romans 7:14-24.

For Paul says later,

“But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.” (Romans 13:14).

Believe anything you want. In verse 6 Paul says: we are now delivered from the law. This is a current active statement. Paul talks extensively about our dual natures which oppose each other to the point of war from chapter 7 to chapter 12. So you can say Paul is only talking about his old self all you want.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Believe anything you want. In verse 6 Paul says: we are now delivered from the law. This is a current active statement.

We are delivered from the Old Testament Law given to the Israelites, and not all Law in general. This is obvious in the fact that Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed (among many other verses). The New Covenant Laws or Commands were not even finished when Paul had written about how we are not under the (Old) Law, etc. Romans 7:6 says we are to serve in newness of spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

Paul talks extensively about our dual natures which oppose each other to the point of war from chapter 7 to chapter 12. So you can say Paul is only talking about his old self all you want.

Specific verses please.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Here's a few interesting verses for all to think of..

Galatians 3:12
And the law is not of faith:..."

Galatians 2:19
"For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God."

1 Timothy 1:9
Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and forsinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for mans layers,"

1 Timothy 1:5
"Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:"

 

[LoveofTruth]

If you live your life thinking the Law has been done away, then you are by definition a man of lawlessness. The lawless will be destroyed by God.

Hmmm and yet Paul said

The commandments engraved in stone (the Ten Commandments representing the entire law and its ministration) are “done away” “abolished”

Go discuss with God why He led Paul to say this,

“ 2 Corinthians 3 - 7. But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:... 11. For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious. 12. Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: 13. And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:”

I think the problem is that you just don’t understand this the veil may be on your heart when reading the old testament read the rest of 2 Cir 3

 

[Imagican]

I would offer this: Jesus was asked, "What is the MOST important law?"

He didn't hesitate. He offered, "Love God with all your heart mind and soul".

Didn't stop there. He continued, "And the second, much like the first, love your neighbor as yourself".

And surprisingly, (they were looking for a means to persecute Him), He continued on with this: "All the law and prophets hang on these two".

Hmmmmm........... When we come to the understanding of what this means, it is pretty clear.

The first laws were meant to be 'a teacher'. I can quote scripture that states this as well.

So if the first laws were meant to be 'a teacher'. how does anyone suppose that they are no longer valid to those who have YET to learn the lessons they were meant to teach.

And then there is this: If ALL THE LAW and PROPHETS hang on 'these two'. Then it becomes clear that 'the law' wasn't abolished, it was enhanced or completed. Kind of like learning to run. First you have to learn to stand, then to walk and only after learning the first lessons are you able to move on to the next. But the lessons necessary to learn to walk are NEVER abolished, they are enhanced. For the next person 'born', they will find those first laws as valid they day they are born as they were for the person who has learned to run. That person that has learned to run still has to stand and walk in order to run.

In the beginning, the laws were written upon stone. Now the laws are written upon the hearts of those 'born again'.

I propose that the laws offered in the beginning were limited in complexity and number simply because they had to 'start' somewhere.

But now, the laws capable of being written upon our hearts are much MORE complex and practically impossible to be counted. ANYTHING we do now that is contrary to the law of LOVE is breaking that law. And it is impossible for us to even count all the ways we can 'act' contrary to that law.

Just look at the commandments themselves. The first deal exclusively with LOVE towards God, the rest, love towards each other.

The idea that these laws are now meaningless is ridiculous. Especially when we consider HOW FEW have even a general understanding of what love means.

Self love doesn't even take a thought. But the concept of loving each other, even our enemies, is a concept that most will never accept therefore never learn.

Food laws? We know they were abolished for those that accept Christ into their hearts. The Jews are no longer bound to those 'cleanliness laws'. Yet we KNOW that they are not 'bad laws'. They were given to protect a small group of people from destroying themselves by exposing themselves to disease and sickness.

Those are not 'the law' that I refer to. I basically speak of the Ten Commandments as 'the law'. It is no less valid today than it was when delivered. We are simply no longer held to the extreme punishments on the INDIVIDUAL at the time they were delivered. In fact, we can be delivered from them by accepting Christ paid the 'price' for us not following them.

But what those laws were meant to 'teach' are as capable of teaching today as they were then.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Imagican]

Your post doesn't sound like you're a seeker.

I'm not really sure what your statement was meant to convey. Either you are saying I have already discovered that which I seek, or you are accusing me of being a liar.

I have been studying the Bible for more than half my life. Seeking the TRUTH. Not what people teach, but what the Bible reveals. Most that I have to offer is certainly difficult to swallow by those who's learning is limited by 'the churches'. Can't argue that and won't.

It's not as complicated when you understand the 'simple truth'. It only becomes complicated when it is NOT understood and one is forced to try to make their misunderstanding FIT what is offered in 'truth'.

God wants loving children. Children who love Him and each other.

God doesn't want robots or people simply following laws for the sake of words written upon stone.

He wants children that follow through an understanding of LOVE. Period. And that is what He has been trying to teach us since we were created.

He couldn't care less about man made ritual or pomp or how one dresses or eats, or celebrates days or times etc............. He no longer dwells in temples made by the hands of men.

So if you allow any of this into your heart, you can only impede your understanding and by doing so impede the possible relationship between oneself and God and oneself and each other.

So it is not 'law versus Christ', nor is it 'faith versus works'. It is an intricate combination of everything God has ever offered us in instruction. And ALL that He has ever offered was meant to teach us love.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[LoveofTruth]

I would offer this: Jesus was asked, "What is the MOST important law?"

He didn't hesitate. He offered, "Love God with all your heart mind and soul".

Didn't stop there. He continued, "And the second, much like the first, love your neighbor as yourself".

And surprisingly, (they were looking for a means to persecute Him), He continued on with this: "All the law and prophets hang on these two".

Hmmmmm........... When we come to the understanding of what this means, it is pretty clear.

The first laws were meant to be 'a teacher'. I can quote scripture that states this as well.

So if the first laws were meant to be 'a teacher'. how does anyone suppose that they are no longer valid to those who have YET to learn the lessons they were meant to teach.

And then there is this: If ALL THE LAW and PROPHETS hang on 'these two'. Then it becomes clear that 'the law' wasn't abolished, it was enhanced or completed. Kind of like learning to run. First you have to learn to stand, then to walk and only after learning the first lessons are you able to move on to the next. But the lessons necessary to learn to walk are NEVER abolished, they are enhanced. For the next person 'born', they will find those first laws as valid they day they are born as they were for the person who has learned to run. That person that has learned to run still has to stand and walk in order to run.

In the beginning, the laws were written upon stone. Now the laws are written upon the hearts of those 'born again'.

I propose that the laws offered in the beginning were limited in complexity and number simply because they had to 'start' somewhere.

But now, the laws capable of being written upon our hearts are much MORE complex and practically impossible to be counted. ANYTHING we do now that is contrary to the law of LOVE is breaking that law. And it is impossible for us to even count all the ways we can 'act' contrary to that law.

Just look at the commandments themselves. The first deal exclusively with LOVE towards God, the rest, love towards each other.

The idea that these laws are now meaningless is ridiculous. Especially when we consider HOW FEW have even a general understanding of what love means.

Self love doesn't even take a thought. But the concept of loving each other, even our enemies, is a concept that most will never accept therefore never learn.

Food laws? We know they were abolished for those that accept Christ into their hearts. The Jews are no longer bound to those 'cleanliness laws'. Yet we KNOW that they are not 'bad laws'. They were given to protect a small group of people from destroying themselves by exposing themselves to disease and sickness.

Those are not 'the law' that I refer to. I basically speak of the Ten Commandments as 'the law'. It is no less valid today than it was when delivered. We are simply no longer held to the extreme punishments on the INDIVIDUAL at the time they were delivered. In fact, we can be delivered from them by accepting Christ paid the 'price' for us not following them.

But what those laws were meant to 'teach' are as capable of teaching today as they were then.

Blessings,

MEC

Here’s a way of looking at this

Four young men are walking along a street they are all unbelievers and they see two big glass houses in the large glass house they see a sign on the window that says

“Don’t throw stones at the house you must love me abd the sign also says don’t throw stones at my neighbours house, you must live them also”

Now the four young men had no plans on throwing stones but when they saw the sign they’turned to each other and grinned and threw stones at both houses of glass and broke the windows .

Now a short while after that all four young men became Christians and they happened to walk by the two houses again and they saw the sign and the broken windows . They rushed over to the big house with the sign on it and told the man they were sorry for breaking the window and the neighbours window and they went and helped to clean up the mes and they offered to help the man and the neighbour in any way

Then after this the old man saw the love of the four young men and he took the sign down.

There was no more need for it with the four young men brcsuse they loved the man and his noeghbour now.

No more need for the letter they were in the spirit

 

[listed]

I'm not really sure what your statement was meant to convey. Either you are saying I have already discovered that which I seek, or you are accusing me of being a liar.

You can take it any way you want.

I have been studying the Bible for more than half my life. Seeking the TRUTH. Not what people teach, but what the Bible reveals. Most that I have to offer is certainly difficult to swallow by those who's learning is limited by 'the churches'. Can't argue that and won't.

I also have read and studied the Bible for many decades. I'm no longer churched because of this. Thank God, He delivered me from the partial law/grace teaching of religious institutions. As such I'm really not welcome in them. Yes they'll tolerate my presence, but refuse to fellowship me. I'm a threat to their system and pocket books for teaching the NT. So there's no purpose of my attendance.

It's not as complicated when you understand the 'simple truth'. It only becomes complicated when it is NOT understood and one is forced to try to make their misunderstanding FIT what is offered in 'truth'.

God wants loving children. Children who love Him and each other.

God doesn't want robots or people simply following laws for the sake of words written upon stone.

He wants children that follow through an understanding of LOVE. Period. And that is what He has been trying to teach us since we were created.

He couldn't care less about man made ritual or pomp or how one dresses or eats, or celebrates days or times etc............. He no longer dwells in temples made by the hands of men.

Amen here. The problem is they do and enforce by social peer pressure. No thanks. I was almost destroyed by them.