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Is the KJV good?

hedrick

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The problem with the responses so far is that they have downplayed problems with the KJV. Unfortunately after 30 min or searching I haven't found a good set of examples. My knowledge is primarily from doing exegesis for years. But I can't easily go back and find all the passages I've looked at.

The following gives a few examples: https://bible.org/seriespage/part-iii-kjv-rv-elegance-accuracy

Unfortunately it uses the same two passages to talk about textual problems. Everyone uses them because they're particularly clear. But problems occur on almost every page. The advantage of this article is that it also talks about translation errors. Even where the KJV gets the Greek text right, it often makes mistakes in translation. Not only do we have more manuscripts now, but there are a lot more non-Biblical documents from the same culture. Currently scholars simply know more about how NT Greek worked.

Finally, there are changes in word meanings that can give you the wrong impression if you don't already know the meaning.

My recommendation is that you should stick with your ESV unless you want a translation that's freer.

Note by the way that I don't use the ESV myself. In addition to issues of the Greek text and the grammar, there are theological issues. Evangelical translations such as the ESV are made by people who believe that the Bible is inerrant. This doesn't affect translations very often, but it does sometimes. The best-known example is Is 7:14, which is quoted by Matthew "a virgin shall conceive." The problem is that the Hebrew of Is 7:14 simply means "young woman." While such women were, of course assumed to be virgins, the word doesn't *mean* virgin. Matthew quoted a Greek translation, which did have virgin. But evangelicals prefer to translate Isaiah to match the quotation in Matthew. There aren't a lot of situations like this, but there are a few.

Roughly speaking there are several kinds of scholarship involved in translation.

- textual scholarship - reconstructing the original Hebrew and Greek
- grammar
- literary and theology scholarship - unfortunately you can't translate a passage without knowing what it means. That means your translation will inevitably be affected by your theology.
- style. making it understandable. There are several legitimate approaches to style, e.g. word for word and thought for thought. This also includes the question of whether you regard "man" and "men" acceptable when the original clearly includes persons of both genders.

In King James, all of these are basically just out of date.

New King James updates the style, but uses approximately the same scholarship as the original King James in other areas.

Most other translations are very similar on the scholarship, differing mostly on style. However evangelical and mainline translations differ slightly on theology. I follow mainline scholarship. Hence I use NRSV. That's typically the translation that you'd find recommended in a course on the Bible in a major university. But evangelicals generally reject the theological scholarship behind them, though they agree with mainline scholarship on text, grammar, etc.

ESV is pretty much the equivalent of the NRSV, using evangelical preferences. In fact it started with the mainline RSV (an older version of the NRSV), and adjusted it to match the translators' evangelical preferences, plus making some improvements based on newer scholarship.

NIV is probably the best known. It uses the same scholarship as ESV, but is somewhat freer. If you find it significantly easier to understand, you might want to use it. There are newer versions such as Holman that I don't know well enough to comment. Other things like Living BIble and New Century are even freer than the NIV. They're find for reading a whole chapter, but I wouldn't use them for detailed study.

(Incidentally, the newest NIV has moved to using gender-neutral language. If you don't like it, stick with your ESV or maybe the original NIV, if you can get it.)
 
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miamited

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Hello, I've been a Christian for a couple years now. I've really struggled with all the different Bible translations and which to use for my primary reading Bible. I know all translations are the word of God and I'm not asking which is more accurate. All have their strengths and weaknesses. I'm considering using the KJV as my primary reading Bible. In light of the wealth of modern translations available is it still recommended for Christians to use the KJV as their main Bible? Will I be doing myself a disservice using the KJV as my main reading bible?

Hi Grace,

The purpose of God's having written the Scriptures is that men may know the way of eternal life.

In that, most all translations are valuable. As to whether or not anyone should use the KJV over any other reliable translation, I hold that it is a matter of personal choice. God didn't write the KJV. He wrote the Scriptures from which the KJV was translated. Those same Scriptures are the basis of all the reliable translations.

Now, I use the word reliable because there are a few which I find aren't really very good in their translating efforts. The main ones today would be the gender neutral ones. Another careless translation is the JW's NWT. I'm also not a fan of the Message translation. It's a little rough in its language when it needn't be. However, there are a number of good translations and any of them will show you the plan, purpose and work of God that men may be saved.

If you like the KJV above the others I would say you should use it.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted
 
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lesliedellow

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So besides removing versus that older manuscripts don't have what does modern scholarship actually change concerning Biblical doctrine? If modern scholarship doesn't actually make any actual changes to the biblical text than what is the point other than to prove that the bible we have been basing our faith from for centuries is actually true and accurate? If we can't trust our bibles by now what's the point.

Nobody is going to acquire heretical beliefs by reading the KJV, and nor will they do so by reading most modern translations. The only exception to that are the translations that fringe groups, like Jehovah's Witnesses, produce for their own consumption.

There are some (comparatively) more serious mistranslations in the KJV, but none which would change Christian beliefs. Getting every last dot and tittle right is mostly the concern of academics.
 
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Anto9us

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Johannine Comma?

Yo Momma!!

I lol

I like the KJV, but for serious study - I like NRSV - I got one NRSV all highlighted and underlined - and one NRSV completely pristeen that someone could look over my shoulder at in church and wouldn't think I'm nuts - both are THE NEW OXFORD ANNOTATED BIBLE - one with green and yellow highlighting so thick it bleeds through the page - one left alone.

The KJV I use is an OLD SCOFIELD REFERENCE edition - not NEW SCOFIELD - but OLD SCOFIELD - I'm tellin ya man, if it was GOOD ENOUGH FOR PAUL AND SILAS - IT'S GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME!

Oh - here's a blatant miss for the KJV:

Hbr 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.



copyChkboxOff.gif
Hbr 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

They said "Jesus" but they should have said "Joshua"

The Hebrew is Yeshua for both Jesus and Joshua - I don't know whether to blame the Textus Receptus Greek or just getting from it to English - but the context clearly indicates Joshua is meant, not Jesus.

Mistakes like this are not that common at all, imo.

I got one Interlinear based on Textus Receptus, (KJV alongside) and one based 27th Nestle-Aland text (NRSV alongside)

Of course, commentary notes are VASTLY DIFFERENT too between NRSV Oxford Annotated Version (NRSV) and Old Scofield - liberal modern biblical scholarship vs hardcore dispensationalism/fundamentalism
 
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lesliedellow

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The Hebrew is Yeshua for both Jesus and Joshua - I don't know whether to blame the Textus Receptus Greek or just getting from it to English - but the context clearly indicates Joshua is meant, not Jesus.

I doubt if that was a mistake. It may be confusing for present day readers of the KJV, but the KJV translators reverence for the text caused them to stay as closely as possible to a word for word translation. In this instance it caused them to do a direct transliteration of the Greek into English. They similarly have Elias for Elijah, even though they could have reverted back to the Old Testament spelling.
 
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Anto9us

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Heb 4:8 - the Greek of Nestle-Aland 27th is the same

it says ιησους (Jesus).

but it's translation says "If JOSHUA had given them rest..."

if Greek word - like Hebrew word Yeshua - can be either Joshua or Jesus - then context has to decide - so modern translation gets it better

 
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Strong in Him

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Thank you for your post, ViaCrucis - very informative. :thumbsup:

I don't use the KJV at all - well, unless I want to read or check something in different versions. I know nothing at all about its history, reliability or accuracy; the language puts me off and always has done.
I recently read a book on the Bible by William Barclay in which he says that it is not good to read the NT in the KJV. Why? Because the NT was written in colloquial Greek - the kind used in conversation by people on the streets; some of it almost like slang. No one uses KJV language today. I don't know whether that means there are any inaccuracies, but this language may not capture the sense of the words, or help us understand people's thoughts and reactions to the various teachings. (That last bit was mine, not Barclay's.)

But there are no doubt people who were brought up on the KJV who love it, and wouldn't dream of using anything else. That's fine, as long as they are meeting with God and have a relationship with him, and not worshipping the Bible or clinging on to the KJV for tradition's sake.

Whatever version enables people to meet God, fall in love with his Son, be filled with the Spirit and makes them want to read his word, is good.
 
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Scott4Him

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hedrick said:
The best-known example is Is 7:14, which is quoted by Matthew "a virgin shall conceive." The problem is that the Hebrew of Is 7:14 simply means "young woman." While such women were, of course assumed to be virgins, the word doesn't *mean* virgin. Matthew quoted a Greek translation, which did have virgin. But evangelicals prefer to translate Isaiah to match the quotation in Matthew. There aren't a lot of situations like this, but there are a few.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the term for virgin in Isaiah 7:14 can mean either young maiden or virgin.
 
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Knee V

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but the term for virgin in Isaiah 7:14 can mean either young maiden or virgin.

It was assumed that a young unmarried woman had not defiled herself. Before English adopted the Latin-based "virgin", it used the word "maiden". Using either "maiden" or "young woman" carries the same connotation as "virgin". It doesn't change the meaning.
 
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cyberlizard

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Hello, I've been a Christian for a couple years now. I've really struggled with all the different Bible translations and which to use for my primary reading Bible. I know all translations are the word of God and I'm not asking which is more accurate. All have their strengths and weaknesses. I'm considering using the KJV as my primary reading Bible. In light of the wealth of modern translations available is it still recommended for Christians to use the KJV as their main Bible? Will I be doing myself a disservice using the KJV as my main reading bible?


the KJV is excellent but to make proper use of its archaic form of English, you would definately need a dictionary specific to the meaning of words as they were penned a few centuries ago.


Steve
 
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Dale

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I second the point that we have better scholarship available today than was available at the time the King James Version was published.

In my experience, the Elizabethan language of the KJV is almost impenetrable, and certainly too ponderous, for most people today. Is Shakespeare easy reading for you? Well, the King James Translation comes from the same time period as Shakespeare.


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MarkRohfrietsch

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I second the point that we have better scholarship available today than was available at the time the King James Version was published.

In my experience, the Elizabethan language of the KJV is almost impenetrable, and certainly too ponderous, for most people today. Is Shakespeare easy reading for you? Well, the King James Translation comes from the same time period as Shakespeare.


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Yes it is, but my wife and I grew up with the KJV, we studied Shakespeare in High-school English. As a matter of fact, we are going to see "Merchant of Venice" this afternoon at our Shakespearean Festival Theatre, here in Stratford Ontario.:)
stratford-festival-theatre-5175.jpg

stratford-festival-theatre-interior-2192.jpg
 
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MarkRohfrietsch

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Yes it is, but my wife and I grew up with the KJV, we studied Shakespeare in High-school English. As a matter of fact, we are going to see "Merchant of Venice" this afternoon at our Shakespearean Festival Theatre, here in Stratford Ontario.:)
stratford-festival-theatre-5175.jpg

stratford-festival-theatre-interior-2192.jpg

Very well done. As always, most entertaining, and very disturbingly crule and thought provoking with it's treatment of prejudice and stereotypes in society. While the language remained true to form, rather than being set in period, it was set in Fascist Italy.
 
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Biblicist

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Hello, I've been a Christian for a couple years now. I've really struggled with all the different Bible translations and which to use for my primary reading Bible. I know all translations are the word of God and I'm not asking which is more accurate. All have their strengths and weaknesses. I'm considering using the KJV as my primary reading Bible. In light of the wealth of modern translations available is it still recommended for Christians to use the KJV as their main Bible? Will I be doing myself a disservice using the KJV as my main reading bible?
The problems with the KJV are fourfold:

1. Very dated English:
As a new Christian many years ago, I walked into a KJV mindset where most within my circles used the King James, the NASB and NIV had not been released. As so many were reading aloud from the KJV this certainly helped me as well but now that the KJV is rarely used today (Australia), I find that when I come across the occasional KJV user, they really seem to struggle with its dated format where many years ago they probably spoke this old language quite well.

2. A poorly constructed Greek Text:
To say that the Greek text of the KJV is a relic that was long ago put to rest by Christian academia would be an absolute understatement.

3. A poor witness to the unsaved:
Many must wonder why God seems to only speak in an old form of English, isn’t our God big enough to have his Word in modern English! Of course this is a very Anglo-centric argument as there are hundreds of contemporary languages that have had the Word of God provided in their own tongues over the past many decades. As far as I can tell, I don’t think that the dedicated folk from Wycliffe Bible Translators bothered to insert “thee’s and thou’s” and other archaic words into these many languages; of course, it could be possible that some KJO types might consider the Wycliffe translators to be a part of some new age conspiracy.

4. Academic texts are no longer written for the KJV
For me, this is certainly a major issue. If you want to use Greek and Hebrew academic books that are based on the KJV, then you often have to rely on very old and out of date texts that were written in the 1800’s. I can’t think of any contemporary scholar who would dare compose a Biblical commentary that was built around the KJV. That’s like buying a new Ford and the manufacturer supplies you with a user manual for a Model-T.
 
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