Is the fundamental gap between creationists and non-creationists...

SelfSim · Mar 23, 2021

Ponderous Curmudgeon said:
Not one of your better comments, but ultimately, it is a short term solution to spreading your morality until you run out of virgins and then we go back to how to we as social beings continue when this particular authorities missives are no longer work.

Ok .. (largely agree).
Science doesn't include 'morality' and is thus often hijacked by self-proclaimed 'Supreme authorities' (eg: WW2 Nazi Germany, etc).

I saw ambiguity in @Estrid's conclusion. I should have asked what was meant by 'a statement of facts not in evidence'.
I took it as meaning: 'facts' are concluded by inference which may/may not be drawn from objectively untestable, assumed posits and 'evidence' can also be subjective/circumstantial and not necessarily objectively determined 'evidence'.

I think I agree with @Estrid's overall general direction there, nonetheless. One group's realisation of the need for rules from some (self-proclaimed) supreme authority, will always be met by those willing to test them, and thus 'supreme authority' there, is still relative to the mind of whoever is proclaiming it. The test however, is all important .. because that's what ultimately resolves the matter.

SelfSim · Mar 23, 2021

Estrid said:
I think the person who tried to make it about "Hong Kong science" ought to explain themselves, and assure us this is not some sort of racism.

'Twas a misunderstanding there .. I respect all humans .. I have no need for '-isms'.

Speedwell · Mar 23, 2021

coffee4u said:
The Golden rule that Jesus spoke was taken from a much earlier scripture.
Leviticus 19:18

Leviticus 19:18

18 “‘Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against anyone among your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the Lord.

This was written long before Confucius came up with his.

And when was that?

renniks · Mar 23, 2021

dlamberth said:
We all know when injustice strikes. It's not something hidden. Even infant children know when something is not just.

Lol, infants think they are the center of the universe and anything that isn't to apease them is unjust. Some people never get past that mindset. No, we don't all have the same sense of justice. We cannot agree what laws are just and what aren't. Any facebook conversation on that topic will show you that in about the first five comments, then it quickly dissolves into adults calling names like toddlers.

AV1611VET · Mar 23, 2021

Speedwell said:
And when was that?

Roughly 1500 BC.

renniks · Mar 23, 2021

dlamberth said:
It's impossible to make a person Love themselves, others or even this Creation by rules. The Heart just doesn't work that way. Teachings can point the way, but in the end it's still up to the individual in what they do. But if the Church is not preaching Love...all we end up with IS rules and laws.

Most people do not do any of those things. Most, regardless of their religious beliefs or not are good people.

So...why not "Preach Love"! The Church would do well to do so.

The Church does preach love. Maybe you went to the wrong church?
And most people don't do those things? Really? You must live in a very small bubble to belive that. Most people, in fact, do lie and cheat, and many steal. And yes, many people cheat on their spouses. Why do you think around half or more marriages don't last? I don't recall saying anything about loving yourself. I said Jesus taught love for others and for God sums up the law.

renniks · Mar 23, 2021

Estrid said:
What strikes you as a "logical" conclusion, stated as
a fact about me is in fact a falsehood you made
up about me, aka, bearing false witness.
Excuses only make it worse.
Does your Bible mention the morality of
bearing false witness, and taking no responsibility
for your actions?

Its moral for "god" to direct the destruction of
cities, destroy some himself, send an agent to
murder innocent children, and so on.

And then "Jesus", if he was a man had no
standing, if he was God then there goes
"Objective" morality and in comes the
situation ethics. Relative absolutes.
Looting cities was groovy until one
day it wasnt.

No wonder you cannot give me any example of
absolute morality.

The statement that we "need " rules from a (hypotheticsl)
Supreme authority is aka a "statement of facts not in evidence".

Lol, it's hilarious that you want to blame God for not being moral enough when you have a system in where the only reason for morality is to advance a certain societal norm. Kinda hard to point fingers when you have only relativism yourself, don't you think?

renniks · Mar 23, 2021

Bungle_Bear said:
You wear your ignorance with pride. Some basic education would seem to be in order.

If you have no argument, insulting is about the best you can do, I guess.

coffee4u · Mar 23, 2021

Speedwell said:
And when was that?

When was Leviticus written? 1400's BC

The golden rule as given by God is about doing. Pro-active rather than passive.
"Do to others as you would have them do to you,"

The golden rule as given by Confucius is about not doing.
"Do not impose on others what you do not wish for yourself."

Speedwell · Mar 23, 2021

AV1611VET said:
Roughly 1500 BC.

OK. But, say, I've got this bridge I want to sell, a real money maker in a major metropolitan area...

Astrid · Mar 23, 2021

renniks said:
Lol, it's hilarious that you want to blame God for not being moral enough when you have a system in where the only reason for morality is to advance a certain societal norm. Kinda hard to point fingers when you have only relativism yourself, don't you think?

If you find your strawmen funny.

Humor requires an element of truth, but it's pretty
dim when you have to make things up then supply
your own canned laughter.

I said what I have to say; you go out of your way
to make it into something else- dishonorable
behaviour, chacteristic for someone trying to
defend the indefensible.

Astrid · Mar 23, 2021

renniks said:
If you have no argument, insulting is about the best you can do, I guess.

See your own post 387 and your previous one to me
for examples of all insult no content

dlamberth · Mar 23, 2021

renniks said:
The Church does preach love.

If the Churches were preaching Love, you guys would be preaching Love. But you aren't doing that.

Astrid · Mar 23, 2021

renniks said:
The Church does preach love. Maybe you went to the wrong church?
And most people don't do those things? Really? You must live in a very small bubble to belive that. Most people, in fact, do lie and cheat, and many steal. And yes, many people cheat on their spouses. Why do you think around half or more marriages don't last? I don't recall saying anything about loving yourself. I said Jesus taught love for others and for God sums up the law.

A sneering tone doth belie soothing words.

AV1611VET · Mar 23, 2021

Speedwell said:
OK. But, say, I've got this bridge I want to sell, a real money maker in a major metropolitan area...

Is it a footbridge in Florida that was built to save lives?

AV1611VET · Mar 23, 2021

dlamberth said:
If the Churches were preaching Love, you guys would be preaching Love. But you aren't doing that.

You don't teach math in gym class.

dlamberth · Mar 23, 2021

AV1611VET said:
You don't teach math in gym class.

But you can teach gymnastics in a gym class, IF that desire is in ones Heart.

Bungle_Bear · Mar 23, 2021

renniks said:
If you have no argument, insulting is about the best you can do, I guess.

No insult, a simple statement of fact. You have demonstrated your ignorance on multiple occasions and seem to think it is something to be proud of. The best way to change that would be education.

disciple Clint · Mar 24, 2021

Estrid said:
If everything in the Bible were accurate that would be a terrif
boost to its credibility.

Both illustrate how this emotional state of
certainty that "god" gave a message is a fanciful
thing, totally unreliable. Especially for the endless
different interpretations that people claim are the
one true God- inspired correct version.

The man who told me he was eagerly waiting for
Word to start killing atheists fortunately had not heard it yet.

Clearly you do not understand the Bible, it is not a history book or a science book, it is not intended to be taken literally in every case, it contains allegory, metaphors, and parables.

disciple Clint · Mar 24, 2021

Estrid said:
The failure of honesty is in the gish.
Denying its a gish is more dishonesty.

If you understand any of what you posted
then pick out a good one. (1).
One fact contrary to evolution is all you need
to disprove it.
Your prob seems to be you don't understand any of
it, for lo, those skilled in the art know there are no
facts contrary to ToE.

But come on just try put out one fact

"Paluxy man tracks" would be excellent if they
were real.

I am not addressing poe I addressed the truth of the Gospels and intelligent design, There are hundreds of pages covering both of these subjects along with appropriate academic citations. If you truly want to get answers to any questions you have on those subjects go to the link and read it, if that is too much effort then you really do not want to know the truth, if you can find anything in those hundreds of pages that you feel you can refute then make your best effort. The 7 Essential Modules - Credible Catholic

Is the fundamental gap between creationists and non-creationists...

A non "-ist"

A non "-ist"

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