Is the fourth commandment done away with? (Moved)

[Water Cross]

This is a very old thread.

'Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. The seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God.' (Exodus 20:9-10)

​

'For I am the LORD, I change not.' (Malachi 3:6)

​

'If ye love me, keep my commandments.' (John 14:15)

Matthew 5:18 .....'For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.'

I keep the Sabbath. From Friday evening at sunset, unto Saturday at sunset.


​

​

 

[LarryP2]

"This is a very old thread.

The last post was March, 2013.

It is still valuable information on how wildly out of context SDA Sabbath keepers have blown the whole thing out of proportion, compared to the Christian emphasis on the Divinity of Christ and his astounding Resurrection.

The Divinity of Christ and the Resurrection are so important to Christianity that is it IMPOSSIBLE to overstate their importance.

By comparison, Sabbath Keeping is of such trifling insignificance to Christianity, it is almost impossible to exaggerate its complete LACK of importance.

In Christian terms, which day you worship on is about as important as whether you buy a Ford or a Hyundai.

The SDA mono-focus on the Sabbath is just devastating and shocking proof of their non-Christian cult status.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Here's a thread that is all too indicative of the Adventist depreciation of the Resurrection. It is a thread on the Sabbath in the "Traditional Adventism" forums:

http://www.christianforums.com/t2560580/

I tediously scrolled down through each and every single post and found just four mentions of either "Jesus" or the "Resurrection."

Over 600 posts.

One thing we can be assured of, the Sabbath emphatically does not focus one's mind on the precious savior and his resurrection. We can also be assured beyond all reasonable doubt that Sabbath Keeping has NOTHING to do with Christianity.

Nice find.



.

 

[Water Cross]

However, the thread was first posted in 2008.

I thought I'd post this link to help anyone who is considering keeping the Sabbath. It's a time zone calculator for sunset, and of course sunrise, so as to know when the hour begins to honor the Sabbath.

Find sunrise and sunset for a location


With regard to your dismissal of the importance of the Sabbath, and the barbs directed at the body of Christ members who refer to themselves as SDA, I think you do a disservice to the Lord's word and the honor that is to be bestowed in remembrance of our Father and the Lord Yeshua the Christ.

Maybe you just don't know enough about the Sabbath and its importance and meaning, remembering that Yeshua delivered his earthly ministry in parables, and much of scripture is allegory so as to give keywords and inspirations to trigger the keys of remembrance and resonance with the innate Holy Spirit that resides within that Kingdom of God that is present and alive in all believers.

I am preparing for Sabbath now, as a Christian, and shall speak with you more if you'd like when it is over.
We are to focus ourselves not on what we can do for God. But to recall what God has done for us.
Amen and Amen.

"This is a very old thread.

The last post was March, 2013.

It is still valuable information on how wildly out of context SDA Sabbath keepers have blown the whole thing out of proportion, compared to the Christian emphasis on the Divinity of Christ and his astounding Resurrection.

The Divinity of Christ and the Resurrection are so important to Christianity that is it IMPOSSIBLE to overstate their importance.

By comparison, Sabbath Keeping is of such trifling insignificance to Christianity, it is almost impossible to exaggerate its complete LACK of importance.

In Christian terms, which day you worship on is about as important as whether you buy a Ford or a Hyundai.

The SDA mono-focus on the Sabbath is just devastating and shocking proof of their non-Christian cult status.

 

[Water Cross]

[SIZE=+3] Keeping Sabbath: Reviving a Christian Practice
[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]by Dorothy C. Bass

I shall see you after Sabbath. God Be With You all. [/SIZE]

 

[from scratch]

[SIZE=+3] Keeping Sabbath: Reviving a Christian Practice
[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]by Dorothy C. Bass

I shall see you after Sabbath. God Be With You all. [/SIZE]

Sabbath facts you refuse to accept -

1. No hiring someone else to work for you on the Sabbath.

2. God canceled the covenant instituting it and therefore also canceled the Sabbath just as His prophets said He would.

3. The Sabbath isn't a requirement in the New Covenant/Testament.

Points 4 and 5 above have absolutely no support.

 

[BobRyan]

This is a very old thread.

'Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. The seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God.' (Exodus 20:9-10)


'For I am the LORD, I change not.' (Malachi 3:6)


'If ye love me, keep my commandments.' (John 14:15)

Matthew 5:18 .....'For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.'

I keep the Sabbath. From Friday evening at sunset, unto Saturday at sunset​

​

Nice!!

Reminds me of this --

[FONT=&quot]================================[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Bible texts both NT and OT about God's Commandments - Showing that the TEN Commandments in assigned that title "in scripture"
[FONT=&quot]
10 Commandments are –
“Commandments of God” Neh 10:29
“Law of God” Neh 10:29
“Word of God” Mark 7:13
“Commandment of God” Mark 7:6-13
NT “Scripture” James 2:8
NT “Law” – James 2:9-11
NT Commandments Eph 6:2, Rom 13:9, Romans 7:7-10

Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

What is worse for your speculation - is that John contrasts "LOVE" to the Commandments of God. He does not say "By this we know that we Love God -- if we Love God". Rather John points to obedience to the WORD of God "the Commandments of God" as the sign that we truly to LOVE God. Being at war against his Word is not such a great sign of "loving God" as some had perhaps imagined.

1 John 5
"Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him.
2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:1-3[/FONT][/FONT]

=============================

Which brings me to the subject of God's TEN Commandments.

[FONT=&quot]Regarding the pro-Sunday sources often listed on this subject:[/FONT]
Here is an example of claims made by the pro-Sunday sources.

1. That the Sabbath Commandment is first given to mankind in Gen 2:1-3
2. That all mankind was obligated by the TEN commandments in the OT and to this very day.
3. That the seventh day as the Sabbath was Saturday the seventh day of the week from Gen 2:1-3 until NT times - including at the cross.
4. That the Ten Commandments are the moral Law of God
5. That the moral law of God is written on the heart under the New Covenant
6. that the Ten Commandments as the moral law of God are in no way opposed to grace and the Gospel.
7. That the Sabbath commandment can rightly be BENT by man-made-tradition to point to week-day-1 after the cross.

I agree with 6 out of 7 as listed above - and yet many here on this part of the board object to all of them, and then complain that so many of the points above are in agreement with my position and opposed to the war-against-the-Ten-Commandments position.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I keep the Sabbath. From Friday evening at sunset, unto Saturday at sunset.​

In what way to you keep the Sabbath?


.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Should Christians keep the seventh day Sabbath holy?

Are we being deceived by not remembering the Sabbath?

The Bible says that the New Covenant will have two aspects. One, God forgives us of our sins, which are the violations of the law, which include the forth commandment. 1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Two, God will write His law on our hearts.

We know from Scripture that keeping of the Ten Commandments saves no one, but rather, they point out our need for a Savior. It's God's grace that saves us.

This tells me that we don't keep the commandmends to get saved, but rather, once we are saved we will keep them because we love God and neighbor.

Romans 6:15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!

Shall we break the law of God because we are now saved?

God tells us that the keeping of the law is motivated by love for God and love for neighbor.

Matthew 22:36-40 "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?'' Jesus said to him, " `You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' "This is the first and great commandment. "And the second is like it: `You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' "On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.''

How we love God and neighbor is defined in the Ten Commandments.

The first four teach us what pleases God and the last six teaches us what will please others.

How does God write these two aspects of the law on our hearts.

Under the Old Covenant they were commanded to keep the commandments or die.

Under the New Covenant we are free from that fearful aspect of death for not keeping the law and are now under grace, in other words, God frees us from the law and its penalty so that we now are free to obey or not obey without fear. This will open us up to obey God from the heart.

Ephesians 6:6 Not with eyeservice, as men-pleasers, but as servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart,

Look at it this way. Lets say a guy hires a maid, she comes to his house twice a week. The guy puts up a list of chores for her to do, which entail, laundry, dishes, cooking and cleaning. If she does not do these things she will risk the chance of being fired. As she begins to work for him, several months go by when they begin to fall in love and get married. The first thing she does when she comes home from her wedding is she removes the list of chores. Does this mean she will no longer do these things? No, it means she does not need the list to tell her what to do because she loves her husband.

God takes away the law so that we can keep the law because we love Him. If I saw that maid doing all the house work for free I would have to ask why she was doing it. Her response would be, because she Ioves him.

If someone asked me why I was keeping the Sabbath, since we are no longer under the law but under grace, I wound have to say, because I love Him.

The Ten Commandments have not been done away with, we just have a different relationship to them now. They go from being written on stone to being written on our heart through freedom and love.

Listen to how the Ten Commandments are referred to by Paul.

Ephesians 6:2 "Honor your father and mother,'' which is the first commandment with promise:
Exodus 20:12 "Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.

Listen to how Jesus refers back to them.

Luke 18:18-21 Now a certain ruler asked Him, saying, "Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?'' So Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. "You know the commandments: `Do not commit adultery,' `Do not murder,' `Do not steal,' `Do not bear false witness,' `Honor your father and your mother.' '' And he said, "All these I have kept from my youth.''

Jesus was even concerned about the Sabbath forty years after His resurrection.

Matthew 24:16-20 "then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. "Let him who is on the housetop not come down to take anything out of his house. "And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. "But woe to those who are pregnant and to those with nursing babies in those days! "And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath.

Jesus even said He was Lord of the Sabbath and how the Sabbath was made for man.

These are not words that do away with the law or the Sabbath, but rather, confirm the Sabbath and the law.

What are your thoughts?

This is a very old thread..............................

So?


.

 

[Water Cross]

Points 4 and 5 above have absolutely no support.

That is not true.

Acts 20:7And the first of the sabbaths, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart the next day, and continued his word until midnight.

God commanded we remember the sabbath day and keep it holy. Nothing changes that.

“Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the Commandments of God.” 1 Corinthians 7:19

The Council of Laodicea , in approximately A.D. 364, in the process of writing 59 canon laws authored Canon law XXIX.

“Christians must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, rather honouring the Lord's Day; and, if they can, resting then as Christians. But if any shall be found to be judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ.”

Not only did this show a contempt for the Jews, when Jesus was a Jew, but it altered the unalterable commandment of God regarding the Sabbath day, the sixth day, is to be kept holy.

 

[Water Cross]

In what way to you keep the Sabbath?


.

I meditate, pray, fast, I unplug my phone and all electrical appliances that I can do without. I take long walks and appreciate God's magnificent nature. I bathe just after sunset on Saturday in a ritual washing away of my travels prior to resting from the mundane activities of the material world. A ritual bath with sacred oils and by candlelight.
And at sunset on Sunday I bathe again in scented waters, by candle light, to purify myself for re-entry into the world of the flesh. It is then that I also break my fast.

 

[from scratch]

I meditate, pray, fast, I unplug my phone and all electrical appliances that I can do without. I take long walks and appreciate God's magnificent nature. I bathe just after sunset on Saturday in a ritual washing away of my travels prior to resting from the mundane activities of the material world. A ritual bath with sacred oils and by candlelight.
And at sunset on Sunday I bathe again in scented waters, by candle light, to purify myself for re-entry into the world of the flesh. It is then that I also break my fast.

Interesting. But why not on Friday and Saturday evenings?

 

[from scratch]

That is not true.

Acts 20:7And the first of the sabbaths, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart the next day, and continued his word until midnight.

God commanded we remember the sabbath day and keep it holy. Nothing changes that.

“Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the Commandments of God.” 1 Corinthians 7:19

The Council of Laodicea , in approximately A.D. 364, in the process of writing 59 canon laws authored Canon law XXIX.

“Christians must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, rather honouring the Lord's Day; and, if they can, resting then as Christians. But if any shall be found to be judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ.”

Not only did this show a contempt for the Jews, when Jesus was a Jew, but it altered the unalterable commandment of God regarding the Sabbath day, the sixth day, is to be kept holy.

No, the prophets said God promised to do so and God (Jesus) said the New Covenant is currently enforce.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus

In what way to you keep the Sabbath?
​

I meditate, pray, fast, I unplug my phone and all electrical appliances that I can do without. I take long walks and appreciate God's magnificent nature. I bathe just after sunset on Saturday in a ritual washing away of my travels prior to resting from the mundane activities of the material world. A ritual bath with sacred oils and by candlelight.

And at sunset on Sunday I bathe again in scented waters, by candle light, to purify myself for re-entry into the world of the flesh. It is then that I also break my fast.

I was talking about the Jewish Fri-Sat sabbath.

Interesting.
But why not on Friday and Saturday evenings?

That is what I am confused on......

'But if this 'No-working-on-the-Sabbath' goes through, where does that leave us?'

html .fb_share_link { padding:2px 0 0 20px; height:16px; border: #ccc solid 1px;-moz-border-radius: 3px;-webkit-border-radius: 3px;border-radius: 3px;font:normal normal normal 11px 'Helvetica Neue',Arial,sans-serif;color: #333;font-weight: bold;text-shadow: 0 1px 0 rgba(255,255,255,.5);cursor: pointer;background-color:#eceef5;text-decoration:none;font-size:11px;-webkit-box-shadow: none;-moz-box-shadow: none;box-shadow: none;} Share
http://www.pinterest.com/pin/create...ath'+goes+through,+where+does+that+leave+us?'





.

 

[Water Cross]

Interesting. But why not on Friday and Saturday evenings?

Being Sunday I clearly misspoke.
Friday and Saturday respectively.
It's been a long day. Were I in observance of Sabbath today I would not be online.

No, the prophets said God promised to do so and God (Jesus) said the New Covenant is currently enforce.

You may believe as you choose to per the prior mentioned council's order.
As for me, I obey God and his Sabbath, which Jesus did not revoke.

I was talking about the Jewish Fri-Sat sabbath.
That is what I am confused on......

'But if this 'No-working-on-the-Sabbath' goes through, where does that leave us?'

html .fb_share_link { padding:2px 0 0 20px; height:16px; border: #ccc solid 1px;-moz-border-radius: 3px;-webkit-border-radius: 3px;border-radius: 3px;font:normal normal normal 11px 'Helvetica Neue',Arial,sans-serif;color: #333;font-weight: bold;text-shadow: 0 1px 0 rgba(255,255,255,.5);cursor: pointer;background-color:#eceef5;text-decoration:none;font-size:11px;-webkit-box-shadow: none;-moz-box-shadow: none;box-shadow: none;} Share






.

 

[from scratch]

Being Sunday I clearly misspoke.
Friday and Saturday respectively.
It's been a long day. Were I in observance of Sabbath today I would not be online.

You may believe as you choose to per the prior mentioned council's order.
As for me, I obey God and his Sabbath, which Jesus did not revoke.

The prior council's order has nothing to do with it. They're merely pitting down what is already practiced for over 200 years. The Bible clearly shows Christians primarily worshipping on Sunday as early as 50-55 AD. The Didache or The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles dated as early as 50 andearlier than 150 AD also shows Christians worshipping on Sunday.

 

[from scratch]

I meditate, pray, fast, I unplug my phone and all electrical appliances that I can do without. I take long walks and appreciate God's magnificent nature. I bathe just after sunset on Saturday in a ritual washing away of my travels prior to resting from the mundane activities of the material world. A ritual bath with sacred oils and by candlelight.
And at sunset on Sunday I bathe again in scented waters, by candle light, to purify myself for re-entry into the world of the flesh. It is then that I also break my fast.

Why not unplug them all? Minimum sin is still sin.

 

[SilverBlade]

I meditate, pray, fast, I unplug my phone and all electrical appliances that I can do without. I take long walks and appreciate God's magnificent nature. I bathe just after sunset on Saturday in a ritual washing away of my travels prior to resting from the mundane activities of the material world. A ritual bath with sacred oils and by candlelight.
And at sunset on Sunday I bathe again in scented waters, by candle light, to purify myself for re-entry into the world of the flesh. It is then that I also break my fast.

Do you unplug your stove? fridge? central air/central heat? digital alarm clocks? PVR's? Router? modem? computer?

 

[BobRyan]

, I obey God and his Sabbath, which Jesus did not revoke.

May God bless you in that.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[LarryP2]

I am glad the following sources strongly denounce the heretical Salvation-by-Works system being peddled by the relentless Sabbath Spam posting. These eminent sources stand for precisely the opposite proposition that the Spam Posters claim: They unanimously support Christian Sunday worship and denounce the heretical and non-Christian emphasis on the 7th Day Sabbath :

Baptist Confession of Faith
"From the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ this was the last day of the week, and from the resurrection of Christ it was changed to the first day of the week and called the Lord's Day. This is to be continued until the end of the world as the Christian Sabbath, the observation of the last day of the week having been abolished.
The Baptist Confession of Faith (1689)

Westminster Confession of Faith
"As it is the law of nature, that, in general, a due proportion of time be set apart for the worship of God; so, in His Word, by a positive, moral, and perpetual commandment binding all men in all ages, He has particularly appointed one day in seven, for a Sabbath, to be kept holy unto him:[34] which, from the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ, was the last day of the week: and, from the resurrection of Christ, was changed into the first day of the week,[35] which, in Scripture, is called the Lord's Day,[36] and is to be continued to the end of the world, as the Christian Sabbath.
Westminster Confession of Faith

DWIGHT MOODY

"When I was a boy, the Sabbath lasted from sundown on Saturday to sundown on Sunday....."
....
"A man ought to turn aside from his ordinary employment one day in seven. There are many whose occupation will not permit them to observe Sunday, but they should observe some other day as a Sabbath."
.....
"A Christian man was once urged by his employer to work on Sunday. "Does not your Bible say that if your ass falls into a pit on the Sabbath you may pull him out?"

"If working men got up a strike for no work on Sunday, they would have the sympathy of a good many."
How Shall We Spend the Sabbath? by Dwight L. Moody

R.C Sproul

"And whatever was temporary about the Mosaic Sabbath must be left behind as the reality of the intimate communion of the Adamic Sabbath is again experienced in our worship of the risen Savior on the first day of the week — the Lord’s Day.

MATHEW HENRY

"The day and time in which he had this vision: it was the Lord’s day, the day which Christ had separated and set apart for himself, as the eucharist is called the Lord’s supper. Surely this can be no other than the Christian Sabbath, the first day of the week, to be observed in remembrance of the resurrection of Christ. Let us who call him our Lord honour him on his own day, the day which the Lord hath made and in which we ought to rejoice."
The Sabbath -- Saturday or Sunday?

THOMAS WATSON

"Our Christian Sabbath comes in the room of the Jewish Sabbath: it is called the Lord's day, Rev. i.10. from Christ the author of it. Our Sabbath is altered by Christ's own appointment. He arose this day out of the grave, and appeared on it often to His disciples, 1 Cor. xvi. 1: to intimate to them (saith Athanasius) that he transferred the Sabbath to the Lord's day. And St. Austin saith that by Christ's rising on the first day of the week, it was consecrated to be the Christian Sabbath, in remembrance of his resurrection.

The Christian Soldier by Thomas Watson - Part 6 - by sanctifying the Lord' Day and holy conversation


CATHOLIC CATECHISM
2174 Jesus rose from the dead "on the first day of the week."104 Because it is the "first day," the day of Christ's Resurrection recalls the first creation. Because it is the "eighth day" following the sabbath,105 it symbolizes the new creation ushered in by Christ's Resurrection. For Christians it has become the first of all days, the first of all feasts, the Lord's Day (he kuriake hemera, dies dominica) Sunday:
Catechism of the Catholic Church - The third commandment