Is the fourth commandment done away with? (Moved)

Philothei · Sep 5, 2008

RND said:
The New Covenant also doesn't say anything about men marrying their sister's or has any specific provisions against sex with children. Since it is silent on these points does it allow those things?

No, but we see that Paul talks about differenciating ourselves from the Temple worship and thus worshiping on Saturday is not an issue. Also in the Old Testament does not say to have sex with children either... That does not prove anything... either. You are making a wrong assumption here.... So are we to assume that sex with children was allowed by Old Testament standards too ?

katholikos · Sep 5, 2008

RND said:
Pro 3:1 My son, forget not my law; but let thine heart keep my commandments:

Pro 7:2 Keep my commandments, and live; and my law as the apple of thine eye.

Jhn 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

1Cr 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.
Translation: Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but {what matters is} the keeping of the commandments of God.

1Jo 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

1Jo 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ..

Only one of those verses is from the New Testament, Rev 12:17, and it says nothing about Saturday Sabbath keeping for Christ's New Covenant.

Your just slinging verses like mud with wild abandon hoping that one will stick, and none did.

I will repeat my first post, which has yet to be refuted:

The commandment to keep holy the Sabbath day was given to Moses: It is from the 4th covenant of the 6 covenants given throughout salvation history, and was for the children of Israel.

The 6th covenant, instituted by Christ, has no such commandment. Interstingly, before Christs covenant was established in His Blood, He left out the commandment to keep holy the Sabbath in this little give and take:

Matt 19: 16-22: And someone came to Him and said, "Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?" And He said to him, "Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but (Q)if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments." Then he said to Him, "Which ones?" And Jesus said, "YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER; YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY; YOU SHALL NOT STEAL; YOU SHALL NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS; HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER; and YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF." The young man said to Him, "All these things I have kept; what am I still lacking?" Jesus said to him, "If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me." But when the young man heard this statement, he went away grieving; for he was one who owned much property.

The biblical Covenants are:

Adamic (the covenant God made with Adam),
Noahite (the covenant God made with Noah),
Abrahamic (the covenant God made with Abraham),
Mosaic (the covenant God made with Moses),
Davidic (the covenant God made with David),
and New (the covenant God in the person of Jesus made with the world)

Each successive covenant encompasses a larger and larger group of people: Two, then a family, then on and on up to the whole wolrld. This is Gods plan, from the very beginning, of bringing more and more of the world back into his family. Thats what a covenant is: An entrance into a family.

Each successive covenant has a different sign, such as Noah's rainbow, then on to circumcision, etc.

The Ten Commandments are part of the Fourth Covenant, with Moses: We are not bound by that covenant. We are bound by Christs commands, and Saturday Sabbath keeping isnt one of them. Show me where Jesus said to keep the Sabbath, then we'll talk.

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Philothei · Sep 5, 2008

katholikos said:
Only one of those verses is from the New Testament, Rev 12:17, and it says nothing about Saturday Sabbath keeping for Christ's New Covenant.

Your just slinging verses like mud with wild abandon hoping that one will stick, and none did.

I will repeat my first post, which has yet to be refuted:

The commandment to keep holy the Sabbath day was given to Moses: It is from the 4th covenant of the 6 covenants given throughout salvation history, and was for the children of Israel.

The 6th covenant, instituted by Christ, has no such commandment. Interstingly, before Christs covenant was established in His Blood, He left out the commandment to keep holy the Sabbath in this little give and take:

The biblical Covenants are:

Adamic (the covenant God made with Adam),
Noahite (the covenant God made with Noah),
Abrahamic (the covenant God made with Abraham),
Mosaic (the covenant God made with Moses),
Davidic (the covenant God made with David),
and New (the covenant God in the person of Jesus made with the world)

Each successive covenant encompasses a larger and larger group of people: Two, then a family, then on and on up to the whole wolrld. This is Gods plan, from the very beginning, of bringing more and more of the world back into his family. Thats what a covenant is: An entrance into a family.

Each successive covenant has a different sign, such as Noah's rainbow, then on to circumcision, etc.

The Ten Commandments are part of the Fourth Covenant, with Moses: We are not bound by that covenant. We are bound by Christs commands, and Saturday Sabbath keeping isnt one of them. Show me where Jesus said to keep the Sabbath, then we'll talk.

.

.

Just to add on to your post...

yeah typical "cherry picking " of the verses...

Also SDA look at the practice of the first Christians and how Paul did wanted a "seperation" between the Old Covenant and the new...Judaisers were not welcomed by him. Circumcision was another "law" that did not apply to the Christians also... We live by Christ alone not the Old Law. Christ came to establish his convenant based on Grace and mercy not the Old Law...That was the fullfillment of the law...

Christ did talk to Farasses about their misconception about the law
Christ talked about 'breaking" the sabbath "no work" deal
Christ did allow women to "touch" him taboo for the Rabbis in our times
Christ said we are all equal while women in Isreal were not 'equal" as men were...
Christ got angry at the temple market owners...

Need more proof that Christ did not observe or respected the legalism of the Law? He also said "you have to follow the spirit of the Law not the letter of the Law"....Any more proof that Jesus did not quite care about the Law???

RND · Sep 5, 2008

Philothei said:
No, but we see that Paul talks about differenciating ourselves from the Temple worship and thus worshiping on Saturday is not an issue.

The sabbath doesn't revolve around "temple worship" (whatever that is).

Also in the Old Testament does not say to have sex with children either... That does not prove anything... either. You are making a wrong assumption here.... So are we to assume that sex with children was allowed by Old Testament standards too ?

That's the exact point. The Bible is silent on certain things, especially the NT. Are we to assume that that silence is acquiescence to the things we think that silence speaks of?

It's a huge stretch to assume that the NT is silent on the sabbath anyway.

bbbbbbb · Sep 5, 2008

For those of us who are interested in parallel universes, there is an interesting thread on the Mormon forum about this very same issue. The Mormons claim to obey the ten commandments, but ignore any biblical observance or understanding of the Sabbath. I know that this comes as no surprise to anyone here. However, the discussion on that thread is interesting, should you care to read it.

RND · Sep 5, 2008

katholikos said:
Bad argument. Silence doesn't give you the right to impose legalistic requirements where none are required.

It's a fine argument. You're assuming acquiescence by the Bible based on silence that doesn't exist.

It would be just as wrong if we were to impose "marrying sisters" or "sex with children" as a requirement for the covenant.

Sure. But my argument isn't for allowing those things, my argument is that the NT is silent on those things. Does that silence equate to acquiescence? Of course not. Why?

Basically that is what you have done: You have made something up because it suits your opinion.

It's a legitimate analogy simply because it points to the fallacy of thinking that just because the NT is silent on something doesn't mean that it allows or approves of that which it is silent on.

It's the same with the "we're under grace not law" crowd. They trot out the "law" when it suits their argument (i.e. homosexuality is a sin, abortion is a sin) but when one points out other aspects of the "law" then comes the convenient "we're under grace not law" mantra.

RND · Sep 5, 2008

bbbbbbb said:
For those of us who are interested in parallel universes, there is an interesting thread on the Mormon forum about this very same issue. The Mormons claim to obey the ten commandments, but ignore any biblical observance or understanding of the Sabbath. I know that this comes as no surprise to anyone here. However, the discussion on that thread is interesting, should you care to read it.

What's the link?

katholikos · Sep 5, 2008

RND said:
It's a fine argument. You're assuming acquiescence by the Bible based on silence that doesn't exist..

You have it backwards. YOU are assuming that silence means you can insert your own legalism.s You cannot. Saturday Sabbath keeping is not part of Christs Covenant - no how, no way. It ain't there.

You're simply taking pieces of different covenants and morphing them into some perverion of Christs teachings.

You cannot find a passage in the NT that says Saturday Sabbath observance is part of Christs Covenant. BUT: Acts 20:7, 1 Corinthians 16:2, Colossians 2:16-17, Revelation 1:10, and other verses, indicate that even during New Testament times, the Sabbath is no longer binding and that Christians are to worship on the Lords day - Sunday.

katholikos · Sep 5, 2008

Philothei said:
...SDA look at the practice of the first Christians and how Paul did wanted a "seperation" between the Old Covenant and the new...Judaisers were not welcomed by him. Circumcision was another "law" that did not apply to the Christians also... We live by Christ alone not the Old Law. Christ came to establish his convenant based on Grace and mercy not the Old Law...That was the fullfillment of the law...

Christ did talk to Farasses about their misconception about the law
Christ talked about 'breaking" the sabbath "no work" deal
Christ did allow women to "touch" him taboo for the Rabbis in our times
Christ said we are all equal while women in Isreal were not 'equal" as men were...
Christ got angry at the temple market owners...

Need more proof that Christ did not observe or respected the legalism of the Law? He also said "you have to follow the spirit of the Law not the letter of the Law"....Any more proof that Jesus did not quite care about the Law???

Well said.

.

RND · Sep 5, 2008

katholikos said:
Only one of those verses is from the New Testament, Rev 12:17, and it says nothing about Saturday Sabbath keeping for Christ's New Covenant.

Um, actually five (5) of those verses are from the NT and they have everything to do with keeping the sabbath.

Your just slinging verses like mud with wild abandon hoping that one will stick, and none did.

And you are willfully ignoring what your own church hierarchy says about the sabbath. Are you suggesting that the official position of the church regarding Sunday over Saturday is incorrect?

I will repeat my first post, which has yet to be refuted:

Only in your mind.

Philothei · Sep 5, 2008

Your just slinging verses like mud with wild abandon hoping that one will stick, and none did.

Click to expand...

he is doing "cherry picking". Christ never said to observe the Saturday if he thought it was important he would or his Apostles would... It is no where...

On the contrary a big case is made by Christ himself about NOT observing the Law... direct hit was the example of giving water to the animals on the Sabbath... that ought to tell ya ...that he did not care for the legalism of the Law. Insisting on the law is void as we live by the spirit... of the Law His words not mine. So this whole issue has nowhere to hold on from but just another judaiser's false teaching... as well as all the rest that exist within SDA...

RND · Sep 5, 2008

katholikos said:
You have it backwards. YOU are assuming that silence means you can insert your own legalism.s You cannot. Saturday Sabbath keeping is not part of Christs Covenant - no how, no way. It ain't there.

You're simply taking pieces of different covenants and morphing them into some perverion of Christs teachings.

You cannot find a passage in the NT that says Saturday Sabbath observance is part of Christs Covenant. BUT: Acts 20:7, 1 Corinthians 16:2, Colossians 2:16-17, Revelation 1:10, and other verses, indicate that even during New Testament times, the Sabbath is no longer binding and that Christians are to worship on the Lords day - Sunday.

If you'd like I can post all sorts of non-Adventist teaching as to why the verses you quoted have nothing to do with the Sabbath.

Gotcha!

How is it that you constantly ignore requests to address what the church heierachy has said regarding the Saturday sabbath and Sunday sacredness?

All the verses you trotted out regarding making "Sunday" service acceptable have even been rejected by the Catholic church as not having anything to do with legitimizing Sunday sacredness.

The following statements cannot be gainsaid and clearly point out that Sunday sacredness is an invention of the RCC. Why won't you address these points? I'll tell you why. Because to do so would mean that you are in belief opposite of the hierarchy of the church which would mean you aren't really catholic afterall.

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif] [/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif] Once he does so (joins the Catholic church), he has no further use for his reason. He enters the Church, an edifice illumined by the superior light of revelation and faith. He can leave reason like a lantern at the door. Explanation of Catholic Morals, A Concise, Reasoned, and Popular Exposition of Catholic Morals, by John H. Stapleton, p 76, Benziger Brothers, NY, 1913. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif] "Obey blindly , that is, without asking reasons. Be careful, then, never to examine the directions of your confessor....In a word, keep before your eyes this great rule, that in obeying your confessor you obey God. Force yourself then, to obey him in spite of all fears. And be persuaded that if you are not obedient to him it will be impossible for you to go on well; but if you obey him you are secure. But you say, if I am damned in consequence of obeying my confessor, who will rescue me from hell? What you say is impossible." St. Alphonsus De Liguori, True Spouse of Christ, p 352, Benziger Brothers, NY. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif] "There is only one remedy for this evil (an over scrupulous conscience), and that remedy is absolute and blind obedience to a prudent director. Choose one, consult him as often as you desire, but do not leave him for another. Then submit punctiliously to his direction. His conscience must be yours for the time being. And if you should err in following him, God will hold him, and not you responsible." Explanation of Catholic Morals, A Concise, Reasoned, and Popular Exposition of Catholic Morals, by John H. Stapleton, p 24, Benziger Brothers, NY, 1913. [/FONT]

Now on to a few more Catholic quotes about Sunday:

"Sunday is a Catholic institution, and its claim to observance can be defended only on Catholic principles . . From beginning to end of Scripture there is not a single passage that warrants the transfer of weekly public worship from the last day of the week to the first." Catholic Press, Sydney, Australia, August, 1900.

"Protestantism, in discarding the authority of the [Roman Catholic] Church, has no good reason for its Sunday theory, and ought logically to keep Saturday as the Sabbath." John Gilmary Shea, in the American Catholic Quarterly Review, January 1883.

"It is well to remind the Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, and all other Christians that the Bible does not support them anywhere in their observance of Sunday. Sunday is an institution of the Roman Catholic Church, and those who observe the day observe a commandment of the Catholic Church." Priest Brady, in an address, reported in the Elizabeth, N.J. News of March 18, 1903.

"Ques.Have you any other way of proving that the [Catholic] Church has power to institute festivals of precept [to command holy days]?
"Ans.Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her: She could not have substituted the observance of Sunday, the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday, the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority."Stephen Keenan, Doctrinal Catechism, p. 176.

"Reason and common sense demand the acceptance of one or the other of these two alternatives: either Protestantism and the keeping holy of Saturday or Catholicity and the keeping holy of Sunday. Compromise is impossible."The Catholic Mirror, December 23, 1893.

"God simply gave His [Catholic] Church the power to set aside whatever day or days she would deem suitable as Holy Days. The Church chose Sunday, the first day of the week, and in the course of time added other days, as holy days."Vincent J. Kelly, Forbidden Sunday and Feast-Day Occupations, p. 2.

"Protestants . . accept Sunday rather than Saturday as the day for public worship after the Catholic Church made the change . . But the Protestant mind does not seem to realize that in accepting the Bible, in observing the Sunday, they are accepting the authority of the spokesman for the church, the Pope."Our Sunday Visitor, February 5, 1950.

"We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty."Pope Leo XIII, in an Encyclical Letter, dated June 20, 1894.

"Not the Creator of Universe, in Genesis 2:1-3,but the Catholic Church can claim the honor of having granted man a pause to his work every seven days."S. C. Mosna, Storia della Domenica, 1969, pp. 366-367.

"The Pope is not only the representative of Jesus Christ, but he is Jesus Christ, hidden under veil of flesh."The Catholic National, July 1895.

"If Protestants would follow the Bible, they should worship God on the Sabbath Day. In keeping the Sunday they are following a law of the Catholic Church."Albert Smith, Chancellor of the Archdiocese of Baltimore, replying for the Cardinal, in a letter dated February 10, 1920.

"We define that the Holy Apostolic See (the Vatican) and the Roman Pontiff hold the primacy over the whole world."A Decree of the Council of Trent, quoted in Philippe Labbe and Gabriel Cossart, "The Most Holy Councils," col. 1167.

"It was the Catholic Church which, by the authority of Jesus Christ, has transferred this rest [from the Bible Sabbath] to the Sunday . . Thus the observance of Sunday by the Protestants is an homage they pay, in spite of themselves, to the authority of the [Catholic] Church."Monsignor Louis Segur, Plain Talk About the Protestantism of Today, p. 213.

"We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday."Peter Geiermann, CSSR, A Doctrinal Catechism, 1957 edition, p. 50.

"We Catholics, then, have precisely the same authority for keeping Sunday holy instead of Saturday as we have for every other article of our creed, namely, the authority of the Church . . whereas you who are Protestants have really no authority for it whatever; for there is no authority for it [Sunday sacredness] in the Bible, and you will not allow that there can be authority for it anywhere else."The Brotherhood of St. Paul, "The Clifton tracts," Volume 4, tract 4, p. 15.

"The Church changed the observance of the Sabbath to Sunday by right of the divine, infallible authority given to her by her founder, Jesus Christ. The Protestant, claiming the Bible to be the only guide of faith, has no warrant for observing Sunday. In this matter the Seventh-day Adventist is the only consistent Protestant."The Catholic Universe Bulletin, August 14, 1942, p. 4.

RND · Sep 5, 2008

Philothei said:
he is doing "cherry picking". Christ never said to observe the Saturday if he thought it was important he would or his Apostles would... It is no where...

I'll ask you the same questions regarding Sunday sacredness and the catholic church's admission that they changed the sabbath from saturday to sunday.

Care to address that?

On the contrary a big case is made by Christ himself about NOT observing the Law... direct hit was the example of giving water to the animals on the Sabbath... that ought to tell ya ...that he did not care for the legalism of the Law.

Again suggesting that Christ didn't care about the law because He didn't care for the legalism of the Pharisees is a fallacious point.

Remember this:
Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Doesn't sound like He was making a case about NOT observing the law but sounds instead like He was making it even harder to observe.

Insisting on the law is void as we live by the spirit... of the Law His words not mine.

Problem is, Christ never said such a thing.

So this whole issue has nowhere to hold on from but just another judaiser's false teaching... as well as all the rest that exist within SDA...

Again, care to comment on those quotes I left regarding what the Catholic church really states?

Is the church wrong?

katholikos · Sep 5, 2008

RND said:
...How is it that you constantly ignore requests to address what the church heierachy has said regarding the Saturday sabbath and Sunday sacredness?....

What comes out of every priest's mouth is not neccessarily Church Doctrine. Therefore, I will post official Church Doctrine to correct your misperceptions.
From The Catechism Of The Catholic Church, online at the Vatican Website, http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p3s2c1a3.htm :

____________________________________________
II. THE LORD'S DAY

This is the day which the LORD has made; let us rejoice and be glad in it.103

The day of the Resurrection: the new creation

2174 Jesus rose from the dead "on the first day of the week."104 Because it is the "first day," the day of Christ's Resurrection recalls the first creation. Because it is the "eighth day" following the sabbath,105 it symbolizes the new creation ushered in by Christ's Resurrection. For Christians it has become the first of all days, the first of all feasts, the Lord's Day (he kuriake hemera, dies dominica) Sunday:

We all gather on the day of the sun, for it is the first day [after the Jewish sabbath, but also the first day] when God, separating matter from darkness, made the world; and on this same day Jesus Christ our Savior rose from the dead.106

Sunday- fulfillment of the sabbath

2175 Sunday is expressly distinguished from the sabbath which it follows chronologically every week; for Christians its ceremonial observance replaces that of the sabbath. In Christ's Passover, Sunday fulfills the spiritual truth of the Jewish sabbath and announces man's eternal rest in God. For worship under the Law prepared for the mystery of Christ, and what was done there prefigured some aspects of Christ:107

Those who lived according to the old order of things have come to a new hope, no longer keeping the sabbath, but the Lord's Day, in which our life is blessed by him and by his death.108

2176 The celebration of Sunday observes the moral commandment inscribed by nature in the human heart to render to God an outward, visible, public, and regular worship "as a sign of his universal beneficence to all."109 Sunday worship fulfills the moral command of the Old Covenant, taking up its rhythm and spirit in the weekly celebration of the Creator and Redeemer of his people.

References:
103 Ps 118:24.
104 Cf. Mt 28:1; Mk 16:2; Lk 24:1; Jn 20:1.
105 Cf. Mk 16:1; Mt 28:1.
106 St. Justin, I Apol. 67: PG 6, 429 and 432.
107 Cf. 1 Cor 10:11.
108 St. Ignatius of Antioch, Ad Magn. 9, 1: SCh 10, 88.
109 St. Thomas Aquinas, STh II-II 122, 4.

(END)
________________________________________________________

So, first of all, the Church is quite clear that the Sabbath is Saturday - Nobody changed the Sabbath. The Church teaches what the Bible says, that Christ fulfilled the Law.

Secondly, your rant about the Catholic Church does not explain why EVERY OTHER Christian group ALSO worships on Sunday. Do you suppose the Baptists secretly obey the Pope? LOL!! Why do all Christians worship on the Lord's Day except for the SDA's ???? You figure every protestant denomination's pastors don't know how to read the Bible, but your guru Ellen White does?

RND · Sep 5, 2008

katholikos said:
What comes out of every priest's mouth is not neccessarily Church Doctrine. Therefore, I will post official Church Doctrine to correct your misperceptions.
From The Catechism Of The Catholic Church, online at the Vatican Website, http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p3s2c1a3.htm :

Actually, I have read the Catechism many times and I am quite aware of what it says. I'm also aware that the church has many different teachings that it doesn't always share with the masses.

So, first of all, the Church is quite clear that the Sabbath is Saturday - Nobody changed the Sabbath. The Church teaches what the Bible says, that Christ fulfilled the Law.

That's the problem. Christ didn't "fulfill" the law so that it can be changed or broken.

Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Heaven and earth are still here.

Secondly, your rant about the Catholic Church does not explain why EVERY OTHER Christian group ALSO worships on Sunday.

I wasn't aware I needed to but obviously they are greatly deceived. However, there have been many Protestants that have acknowledge that Sunday is not the Sabbath.

"There was and is a command to keep holy the Sabbath day, but that Sabbath day was not Sunday. It will however be readily said, and with some show of triumph, that the Sabbath was transferred from the seventh to the first day of the week, with all its duties, privileges and sanctions. Earnestly desiring information on this subject, which I have studied for many years, I ask, where can the record of such a transaction be found? Not in the New Testamentabsolutely not. There is no scriptural evidence of the change of the Sabbath institution from the seventh to the first day of the week."Dr. E. T. Hiscox, author of the Baptist Manual.

"It is quite clear that however rigidly or devotedly we may spend Sunday, we are not keeping the Sabbath . . The Sabbath was founded on a specific divine command. We can plead no such command for the observance of Sunday . . There is not a single line in the New Testament to suggest that we incur any penalty by violating the supposed sanctity of Sunday."Dr. R. W. Dale, The Ten Commandments, pp. 106-107.

"The sacred name of the seventh day is Sabbath. This fact is too clear to require argument [Exodus 20:10, quoted] . . On this point the plain teaching of the Word has been admitted in all ages . . Not once did the disciples apply the Sabbath law to the first day of the week,that folly was left for a later age, nor did they pretend that the first day supplanted the seventh."Joseph Judson Taylor, The Sabbatic Question, pp. 14-17, 41.

"It is true that there is no positive command for infant baptism. Nor is there any for keeping holy the first day of the week. Many believe that Christ changed the Sabbath. But, from His own words, we see that He came for no such purpose. Those who believe that Jesus changed the Sabbath base it only on a supposition."Amos Binney, Theological Compendium, pp. 180-181.

Do you suppose the Baptists secretly obey the Pope? LOL!!

You mean have been deceived by. Yes.

Why do all Christians worship on the Lord's Day except for the SDA's ????

Because they fail to recognize truth?

You figure every protestant denomination's pastors don't know how to read the Bible, but your guru Ellen White does?

Oh, they know how to read the Bible, they just choose to ignore the truth.

Dwight Moody said:

"The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since," he wrote. "The fourth commandment begins with the word 'remember,' showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote the law on the tablets of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?"

katholikos · Sep 5, 2008

RND said:
....Oh, they know how to read the Bible, they just choose to ignore the truth....

Ahh, I see. So they know the truth, but the protestants choose to ignore it and follow the pope instead. LOL!

Dwight Moody said....

Is he an SDA? I don't think so. Why are you quoting someone who "ignores the truth"?

RND · Sep 5, 2008

katholikos said:
Ahh, I see. So they know the truth, but the protestants choose to ignore it and follow the pope instead. LOL!

Yes, that's correct. According to the Catholic church if Protestants truly believed in "sola scriptura" then they would welcome sabbath observance.

THE CHRISTIAN SABBATH
THE GENUINE OFFSPRING OF THE UNION OF THE HOLY SPIRIT AND THE CATHOLIC CHURCH HIS SPOUSE. THE CLAIMS OF PROTESTANTISM TO ANY PART THEREIN PROVED TO BE GROUNDLESS, SELF-CONTRADICTORY, AND SUICIDAL
[From the Catholic Mirror of Sept. 2, 1893]

Our attention has been called to the above subject in the past week by the receipt of a brochure of twenty-one pages, published by the International Religious Liberty Association, entitled, "Appeal and Remonstrance," embodying resolutions adopted the General Conference of the Seventh-day Adventists (Feb. 24, 1893). The resolutions criticize and censure, with much acerbity, the action of the United States Congress, and of the Supreme Court, for the invading the rights of the people by closing the World's Fair on Sunday.

The Adventists are the only body of Christians with the Bible as their teacher, who can find no warrant in its pages for the change of the day from the seventh to the first. Hence their appellation, "Seventh-day Adventists." Their cardinal principle consists in setting apart Saturday for the exclusive worship of God, in conformity with the positive command of God himself, repeatedly reiterated in the sacred books of the Old and New Testaments, literally obeyed by the children of Israel for thousands of years to this day, and endorsed by the teaching and practice of the Son of God whilst on earth.

Per contra, the Protestants of the world, the Adventists excepted, with the same Bible as their cherished and sole infallible teacher, by their practice, since their appearance in the sixteenth century, with the time-honored practice of the Jewish people before their eyes, have rejected the day named for His worship by God, and assumed, in apparent contradiction of His command, a day for His worship never once referred to for that purpose, in the pages of that Sacred Volume.

Is he an SDA? I don't think so. Why are you quoting someone who "ignores the truth"?

The same reason why I quote the Catholics that admit they changed the solemnity of the Sabbath.

Philothei · Sep 5, 2008

Why use the Bible when ghosts and goblins will do.

So all the martyrs who died in Christ's name are goblins? How so very reverant of you. I before you go on making fun of my siggy you should always see that I am not a bit insulting to you.... Just because your argument is null you do not have to get on my belief system. Your "tradition" of worshiping on Sabbath is not as near valid as me having a saint/martyr intereceding for us.

Before you go one with your comments I would check to see if they are heartful ....if they are maybe you should not post them my friend. My saints are my buisness not yours please refrain from commenting on them.

RND · Sep 5, 2008

Philothei said:
o all the martyrs who died in Christ's name are goblins? How so very reverant of you. I before you go on making fun of my siggy you should always see that I am not a bit insulting to you.... Just because your argument is null you do not have to get on my belief system. Your "tradition" of worshiping on Sabbath is not as near valid as me having a saint/martyr intereceding for us.

That's the point I'm trying to get across to you, saints and martyrs don't intervene for anyone - only Jesus Christ does. Your insistence that dead people intercede of others is completely unscriptural and heretical. While that may indeed be your belief it is not something that can be rested on the solid foundation of scripture.

Before you go one with your comments I would check to see if they are heartful ....if they are maybe you should not post them my friend. My saints are my buisness not yours please refrain from commenting on them.

Dear, you make yourself open to these things by openly having as part of your signature obviously unscriptural references. Saints and martyrs do not intercede for those on earth only Jesus Christ does. If that is something you consider "your business" then I would suggest not flaunting "your business" that don't believe what you believe to others. That was from my heart.

Philothei · Sep 5, 2008

If that is something you consider "your business" then I would suggest not flaunting "your business" that don't believe what you believe to others. That was from my heart.

What is "flaunting" is your ridiculous insults and flames... also getting this thread off topic.

Is the fourth commandment done away with? (Moved)

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