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I could say that. I think most everyone else could too. The conjugal act has other purposes parenthood is one of them.
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I could say that. I think most everyone else could too. The conjugal act has other purposes parenthood is one of them.I didn't say that at all. I believe there are many derived purposes for sexuality according to what human beings desire. Parenthood is only one of those.
I could respect a difference of opinion on what is natural to human life but not an outright denial that there is such a thing as human nature. I think the reality here is that the obviously natural and unnatural relative to human life, for you, can't define what is good or bad because it will sink your argument which makes human nature clay and man the potter. I can understand that you require that human nature not be included in the discussion. Not because it is something Catholic or false but because you can't shape the clay if it is already shaped. If it's shape has been already seen. That brings it back to the Incarnation of God. Divine and human nature in the person of Jesus revealed fully.I'm not interested in arguments that appeal to nature. Christians who appeal to natural law are quite frankly misguided in this respect. As Pr. Ed Knudson points out, natural law has been mostly a weapon the Catholic Church uses to justify their refusal to question oppressive power structures; it's weaponized philosophy. What is natural is typically whatever an old, celibate, heterosexual person arbitrarily sees as natural, colored by an ideology of human control and regulation. Plus it's fundamentally confusing an is for an ought.
I could respect a difference of opinion on what is natural to human life but not an outright denial that there is such a thing as human nature. I think the reality here is that the obviously natural and unnatural relative to human life, for you, can't define what is good or bad because it will sink your argument which makes human nature clay and man the potter. I can understand that you require that human nature not be included in the discussion. Not because it is something Catholic or false but because you can't shape the clay if it is already shaped.
My original post is an honest query.
I truly can't fathom how a Christian can know God entered into a state of being and still find that state of being disposable. If God became an olive tree would olive trees deserve more reverence than before? Would they be any more special at all?
This part of your post seemed to pertain to mine. Even with household goods there isn't a "this isn't disposable necessarily" on the label. You say you don't consider human life disposable unless human life comes before a woman's 'interests'. Then how is it not disposable?It's more a question of epistemology than metaphysics, in my mind.
I don't think many of us who challenge or are skeptical of pro-life rhetoric consider human life "disposable" necessarily. We just view womens interests as primary. I actually do think after fetal viability we should be very careful in our ethics concerning abortion.
The ancient Pagans put that line of human dignityat the ability to reason. It was not considered a human until then so the child could be sacrificed any time before a sign of reason was seen. For you it's viability. It looks all the same to me.I actually do think after fetal viability we should be very careful in our ethics concerning abortion.
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the person in control of whether or not to be pregnant is the mother
According to Planned Parenthood’s own research arm, rape and incest accounts for only 1.5% of aborted pregnancies. If we concede the 1.5% are you willing to condemn the 98.5%? Of course not, which is why your argument is moot.That isn't necessarily true, as in the case of rape or sexual assault. And at any rate it implies consent to sex is consent to getting pregnant. It's as absurd as saying consent to drive a car is consent to having an accident.
And there you have it folk..... Prophesy has been fulfilled:That really amounts to empty rhetoric, because the word of God was predominantly spoken through men.
Jesus gave two laws and all laws stem from this:More Law that always condemns and accuses.
I'm saying that not one should be aborted.. good, bad or ugly.... It is not our place....it is murder... Unless you want a system like they have in the movie "Minority Report".All we're talking about here are 'WHAT IFS' just like your quote below;
To which I might just say what if we were talking about Hitler, Stalin, Ed Bundy....the list goes on and on here too. Would the world be better off if their mom's would have dumped the 'bad seed' to begin with? I think you get the point. So just answer my 'WHAT IF' I, or even better you, had to make a wife/fetus decision. I don't have a black and white answer here, but you all seem to, so just answer for God and the others and tell me where WE'D stand in making that 'either or' choice which has real life application. I mean even the PRO LIFER sites admit that it is a small fraction of those in such a mother/fetus decision situation. OK, WHAT IF YOU ARE that small fraction....make your decision and let me know what God thinks about abortion and your decision.
Actually I do have a few verses for myself. One of the first ones was when Satan physically manifested to me the night I got home after I received the baptism of the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues. The 'verse' He spoke to me in an instant was "Fear knocked faith answered and there was nobody there." I heard I obeyed and when I turned around he was gone. As for my frustration and aggravation with Bible-believing, Bible-loving, Bible-quoting Christians. ...that is a very good word, you should 'listen' to it.You should have a chapter and verse of your own to bring out your point/s rather than sounding so very frustrated and aggravated with Bible-believing, Bible-loving, Bible-quoting Christians. BTW, your style and verse are quite telling.
Those are not verses...it is the Word which is a lamp unto our feet.Actually I do have a few verses for myself. One of the first ones was when Satan physically manifested to me the night I got home after I received the baptism of the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues. The 'verse' He spoke to me in an instant was "Fear knocked faith answered and there was nobody there." I heard I obeyed and when I turned around he was gone. As for my frustration and aggravation with Bible-believing, Bible-loving, Bible-quoting Christians. ...that is a very good word, you should 'listen' to it.
Wow looks like we need to review the birds and bees here:
What message would that be?I usually state that very soon incubators will be able to take any zygote and bring it to maturity and Pro-Life advocates will be drafted to raise every child. Soon after that, or perhaps before that, men will be doing the job. Every Man who is Pro-Life will have an incubator surgically implanted to receive and carry any unwanted pre-borns.
This time I just jumped to the chase and assumed the message would get accross.
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.” Matthew 7:13-14Majority of the Christians interpret that Bible the way I do and support legal abortion.
Based on the text that I quoted I do not see the fetus as a living thing. Thus I am pro-choice
Which is not surprising as most mainline Protestant churches have abandoned the Bible as the rule of faith.By comparison, only 35% of those who are part of the mainline Protestant tradition say abortion should be illegal in all or most cases, with 60% in support of keeping abortion legal.
Members of the Episcopal Church (79%) and the United Church of Christ (72%) are especially likely to support legal abortion, while most members of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) and the mainline Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (65%) also take this position."
No it is not:Pew Research is a Christian group.
The majority of liberal Christians who no longer view the Bible as the rule of faith believe what you believe. You realize you left out the majority of American Christians in your data?Majority of the Christians interpret that Bible the way I do and support legal abortion.
You are correct. You should not be imposing millennia and ages old pagan religious practices of sacrificing the young to get ahead in life.Well, some people have extreme religious views but they should not try to impose their outdated ideas on the society.
Over 50% of procured abortions on healthy unborn human beings are female. Guess they don't have a say in their own bodies.Let the women make their own decisions about their bodies.
Thank you for honestly sharing this. For me, this really explains a lot. Ubicharitas is actually OK with holding onto and believing in contradictory, inconsistent ideas. Personally, I have more intellectual and spiritual integrity than to intentionally allow myself to do that. But seeing as the link he provided to his denominations position on abortion is logically inconsistent, I suppose it shouldn't be surprising that his own view follows that.We are not conservative Reformed Presbyterians or Baptist and we don't pretend to have an entirely logically consistent "worldview". That's not what we are about.
This is a great example for us the fallacy known as "Appeal to Popularity" It's an invalid way of reasoning.By comparison, only 35% of those who are part of the mainline Protestant tradition say abortion should be illegal in all or most cases, with 60% in support of keeping abortion legal. Members of the Episcopal Church (79%) and the United Church of Christ (72%) are especially likely to support legal abortion, while most members of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) and the mainline Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (65%) also take this position."
Pew Research
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...roups-vary-widely-in-their-views-of-abortion/
Pew Research is a Christian group. Majority of the Christians interpret that Bible the way I do and support legal abortion. Well, some people have extreme religious views but they should not try to impose their outdated ideas on the society.
That's just it... "It" is a human being. This human is not "her body" or part of it. She is a life support system for it and no blood passes from the mother to the infant. Only O2 and nutrients.By comparison, only 35% of those who are part of the mainline Protestant tradition say abortion should be illegal in all or most cases, with 60% in support of keeping abortion legal. Members of the Episcopal Church (79%) and the United Church of Christ (72%) are especially likely to support legal abortion, while most members of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) and the mainline Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (65%) also take this position."
Pew Research
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...roups-vary-widely-in-their-views-of-abortion/
Pew Research is a Christian group. Majority of the Christians interpret that Bible the way I do and support legal abortion. Well, some people have extreme religious views but they should not try to impose their outdated ideas on the society. Let the women make their own decisions about their bodies.
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