Is the Devil Stronger than God?

[Tree of Life]

I wonder though if when Jesus was tempted by the devil was he merely expressing the mind battles and temptations of humans, rather than some sort of actual entity. Its satan as an entity I dont accept.

Why not?

 

[Zoii]

Why not?

The whole concept of satan and hell makes no sense to me. I think it was something for a cultural that lacked knowledge 1000s of years ago. It just seems silly and boogey-man ish... and I say that without meaning to insult anyone that does believe in hell and satan

 

[Drifter Kybe Scythe Kane]

The devil is God's enemy (Matthew 13:25, Matthew 13:39). He is also the enemy of the people of God (Ephesians 6:11). The devil is the father of lies (John 8:44). He lies to God's people and tempts them to sin. He is the tempter of God's people (1 Thessalonians 3:5). He is the prince of the world in that he has deceived the whole world into participating in his rebellion against God (Revelation 12:9, Ephesians 2:2).

So we can safely say that if anyone is rebelling against God, the devil is involved. They are under his power and influence. And if anyones sins - including a believer - the devil is involved. He tempts people to sin and deceives people into sinning.

God saves people from the tyranny of the devil (Colossians 1:13). He is conquered by the blood of the lamb (Revelation 12:11). Surely the evil one hates this. He seeks to ensnare and destroy believers.

But is the devil stronger than God? Is he able to pluck them out of God's hand? Is he able to successfully tempt them to apostatize and to reject Jesus?

Jesus says no. In John 10:27-29 - 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

Paul says no. In Romans 8:38-39 he says - 38 For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Those who are saved can never lose their salvation because Jesus is stronger than the devil. If you say that believers can lose their salvation then you deny this. You're effectively saying that the devil can prevail, even in a small way, against the Lord.

First of all, God is within everything, and even mistakes-glory be to God. He can overthrow the devil whenever he wants and the reason why he's waiting is because he believes and loves the art of struggle. Even in the bible the weak come closest to God...is that how it goes? Yea, I think that's how it goes. Anyways... So what I'm trying to say God is love and peace is the effect of love which is the most advanced way of life. That's like saying you want a civilization of art, knowledge, sharing and peace instead of a civilization of practicality, government and militaristic values in which you really don't need. Lucifer is not so stupid as to actually oppose God, God is on schedule in many areas in life and not behind in anything. Then again, lucifer is the 2nd strongest around and should be a healthy fear with his amount of beauty and power.

 

[dreadnought]

I wonder though if when Jesus was tempted by the devil was he merely expressing the mind battles and temptations of humans, rather than some sort of actual entity. Its satan as an entity I dont accept.

Jesus names Satan over and over again. Satan tempts us to commit sin. If you don't believe in Satan, then Satan's job is very easy.

 

[Zoii]

Jesus names Satan over and over again. Satan tempts us to commit sin. If you don't believe in Satan, then Satan's job is very easy.

Oh truly I dont mean to upset you or anyone else here - Im just stating my personal view which is that I dont believe in Satan or hell.

 

[Colter]

The devil is God's enemy (Matthew 13:25, Matthew 13:39). He is also the enemy of the people of God (Ephesians 6:11). The devil is the father of lies (John 8:44). He lies to God's people and tempts them to sin. He is the tempter of God's people (1 Thessalonians 3:5). He is the prince of the world in that he has deceived the whole world into participating in his rebellion against God (Revelation 12:9, Ephesians 2:2).

So we can safely say that if anyone is rebelling against God, the devil is involved. They are under his power and influence. And if anyones sins - including a believer - the devil is involved. He tempts people to sin and deceives people into sinning.

God saves people from the tyranny of the devil (Colossians 1:13). He is conquered by the blood of the lamb (Revelation 12:11). Surely the evil one hates this. He seeks to ensnare and destroy believers.

But is the devil stronger than God? Is he able to pluck them out of God's hand? Is he able to successfully tempt them to apostatize and to reject Jesus?

Jesus says no. In John 10:27-29 - 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

Paul says no. In Romans 8:38-39 he says - 38 For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Those who are saved can never lose their salvation because Jesus is stronger than the devil. If you say that believers can lose their salvation then you deny this. You're effectively saying that the devil can prevail, even in a small way, against the Lord.

Jeremiah 17:9 (KJV)
9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

It’s as if people have more faith in the devil than the power of God!

I take responsibility for my own behavior and sins, Satan was defeated and is gone!

 

[BobRyan]

The whole concept of satan and hell makes no sense to me. I think it was something for a cultural that lacked knowledge 1000s of years ago. It just seems silly and boogey-man ish... and I say that without meaning to insult anyone that does believe in hell and satan

So then if you were writing the Bible ... for sure you would not have written it that way.

But if GOD is the author -- then it is probably going to be written as we see it today -- according to 2 Tim 3:16

 

[dreadnought]

Oh truly I dont mean to upset you or anyone else here - Im just stating my personal view which is that I dont believe in Satan or hell.

But Jesus speaks of him over and over. Are you smarter than Jesus? Hell is another conversation.

 

[BobRyan]

I wonder though if when Jesus was tempted by the devil was he merely expressing the mind battles and temptations of humans, rather than some sort of actual entity. Its satan as an entity I dont accept.

Start by reading the words in the actual text of Matthew 4 and see if you can possibly bend-wrench your story into the text (eisegesis I think they call it).

Your post is in the form of wishful thinking rather than attention to details in the actual text.

Were we simply "not supposed to notice"? or were you thinking that everyone here just sort of makes-stuff-up as they go when reading the Bible?

How do you view it?

 

[Zoii]

So then if you were writing the Bible ... for sure you would not have written it that way.

But if GOD is the author -- then it is probably going to be written as we see it today -- according to 2 Tim 3:16

No God didnt write the bible - cmon - we know who wrote parts and there are other parts where the authors were unknown eg Genesis and Lev, though there are theiries of who they may be eg Moses. I cant imagine God sitting at a writing desk scribing away on some scrolls. That was done by man.

 

[Zoii]

Start by reading the words in the actual text of Matthew 4 and see if you can possibly bend-wrench your story into the text (eisgesis I think they call it).

Your post is in the form of wishful thinking rather than attention to details in the actual text.

Were we simply "not supposed to notice"? or were you thinking that everyone here just sort of makes-stuff-up as they go when reading the Bible?

How do you view it?

I accept you believe something different and Im not trying to persuade you to my line of thinking. I just cant accept something like hell and Satan as logical.

 

[dreadnought]

Oh truly I dont mean to upset you or anyone else here - Im just stating my personal view which is that I dont believe in Satan or hell.

Hell is nothing more than the consequences of your sin. For instance, if you rob a bank, you go to jail. You drink too much, you get liver cancer.

 

[Zoii]

But Jesus speaks of him over and over. Are you smarter than Jesus? Hell is another conversation.

Yes well - its written thats what he says, but I can think of something that tempts me and give it a name too - I get tempted to not exercise and I even talk about exorcising that demon - but I dont regard a battle of temptation as an actual entity though clearly i acknowledge you do and thats fine.

 

[Zoii]

Hell is nothing more than the consequences of your sin. For instance, if you rob a bank, you go to jail. You drink too much, you get liver cancer.

Yes I can accept that version of hell - its all the fire-pits etc that I think are a nonsense.

 

[Colter]

The fundamental lie of the fallen one and his followers was that they could ever have the kind of powers that they are given credit for! Satan was a self deluded celestial administrator who abused what powers that he did have to cause confusion, doubt and conflict.

 

[dreadnought]

Yes well - its written thats what he says, but I can think of something that tempts me and give it a name too - I get tempted to not exercise and I even talk about exorcising that demon - but I dont regard a battle of temptation as an actual entity though clearly i acknowledge you do and thats fine.

I guess the issue is this: Am I to believe you, who says there is no Satan, or am I to believe Jesus, who speaks of him over and over?

 

[dreadnought]

Yes I can accept that version of hell - its all the fire-pits etc that I think are a nonsense.

The Bible simply tries to impress upon us that the consequences of sin can be very severe.

 

[BobRyan]

I accept you believe something different and Im not trying to persuade you to my line of thinking. I just cant accept something like hell and Satan as logical.

Since this is a Christian message board - for the sake of the context that most people take here - humor us by starting with the "Bible is the Word of God" as your starting premise.. then show us how some detail is "not logical" given that God authored the text,.. has infinite knowledge, is all powerful, made everyone and everything, and is an expert at conveying His precise meaning when He communicates.

Starting point -- God creates a "free will" universe where all beings are sinless but have free will.

Satan begins as a sinless being "Lucifer" and there are no demons. Then Satan falls.. and takes with him 1/3 of the angels.

 

[Zoii]

I guess the issue is this: Am I to believe you, who says there is no Satan, or am I to believe Jesus, who speaks of him over and over?

you must believe what feel right and logical and ethical to you - if thats a physical entity called satan then thats fine.

 

[Zoii]

The Bible simply tries to impress upon us that the consequences of sin can be very severe.

I think a lot about that sort of thing and in many ways support what buddhists say about Karma. Not the "you will have an awful next life" type of Karma - more you will reap what you sow. People who are horrible people will in my view have horrible lives.