Is the Devil Stronger than God?

[JacksBratt]

If everything are all solely devil's fault, why did God punish Adam and Eve, not just the serpent? And why did God kill everyone with the flood instead of simply punishing the devil?

Even though the devil maybe sometimes involved, I wouldn't blame the devil for everything though. We are at least, to a certain extent, responsible for our own choice.

But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death. (James 1:14 NKJV)​

Adam and Eve disobeyed God. That is why they were no longer sinless and punished.

God did not send the flood as punishment of those on the earth. He send the flood to destroy all the corruption of the flesh and save the only flesh that was not corrupted.

 

[Monna]

There is no question that no one can act against God's will

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Do you then believe that no one will perish, because no one can act against God's will?
Did Adam and Eve act against God's will?

We shouldn't confuse the devil with our own tendency to sin. The devil is not omnipresent. We sin without needing the devil to prompt us. We sin of our own volition, and we must bear the responsibility - we cannot blame the devil.

Is the devil stronger than God? Of course not! The devil's ultimate weapon is death, and Christ defeated death (from within).

 

[Petros2015]

So we can safely say that if anyone is rebelling against God, the devil is involved. They are under his power and influence. And if anyones sins - including a believer - the devil is involved. He tempts people to sin and deceives people into sinning.

No... you could say they are moving into his camp. It doesn't mean he is directly involved.

James 1:14-15

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Credit where credit is due.

Similarly

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.

The Devil can't snatch you from Christ's hand. But if you stop following Christ, he really won't have to, now will he?

 

[Colter]

I think it is difficult to be a Christian who believes in the Word of God... the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection ... the Gospel as stated in the bible ... while dismissing the Bible as nothing more than the "best efforts of ignorant men living in a prescientific culture to make up the best stuff they could imagine at the time".

A lot of people on this board immediately recognize the obvious nature of that statement.

Were we simply "not supposed to notice"??? That does not seem logical.

I understand your position Bob and in some respect, how you arrived at your belief about the inerrancy of the writings of men in robes.

 

[Zoii]

Jesus said He was present and saw Satan cast out of Heaven.Was Jesus lying or telling the truth.If there are parts of the Bible that are untrue, I suggest we toss the whole thing. It’s all or nothing. God wrote the Bible—-those who put pen to paper were merely secretaries

I dont accept that. It not necessary in order to follow a christian paradigm

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

par·a·digm
ˈperəˌdīm/
noun
noun: paradigm; plural noun: paradigms
1.
technical
a typical example or pattern of something; a model.
"there is a new paradigm for public art in this country"
synonyms: model, pattern, example, exemplar, template, standard, prototype, archetype
"why should your sets of values be the paradigm for the rest of us?"
=============================================

What good would following any paradigm do for someone ?

 

[Zoii]

Certainly that is a true statement.

I am simply exploring the "logic" in the position you propose.

I am asking logically what the difference is between a "no miracles just ignorant men making their best guess at a good idea in a prescientific culture" and that same position as expressed by a kind atheist who views Christianity warmly but not as a supernatural truth based on the Word of God.



Certainly not me. ... But I can "read" the Bible details and ''see" what IT claims about itself.

Whether one chooses to believe the Bible and why -- is something we can explore in terms of the "logic" of that view for or against.

Im not challenging anyones beliefs, i have enough challenges sorting through the things i find logical and acceptable.

I dont have an issue acknowledging that the bible is written by men n may not be infallible. I totally get why such a concept is threatening to christianity, but for me i cannot logically say that its unquestionably infallible when i dont know 100% that it is true. How can I. So much is written that cant be verified and massive sections ard written by people unknown yet i am supposed to dispel any thoughts thats its any thing but perfect. Well i cant.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Im not challenging anyones beliefs, i have enough challenges sorting through the things i find logical and acceptable.

I dont have an issue acknowledging that the bible is written by men n may not be infallible. I totally get why such a concept is threatening to christianity, but for me i cannot logically say that its unquestionably infallible when i dont know 100% that it is true. How can I. So much is written that cant be verified and massive sections ard written by people unknown yet i am suppise to dispel any thoights thats its any thing but perfect. Well i cant.

Good,
yet we can know that God is indeed and forever stronger than the devil, right ?

 

[Zoii]

I don't believe in the devil

 

[ToBeLoved]

So we agree that since the devil is not stronger that God, that those who the Lord saves are unable to be lost?

aren't you hijacking the OP's thread by changing the subject to salvation when the OP topic is the devil and God and who is stronger?

You should be able to create a new thread for your topic

 

[ToBeLoved]

There is no question that no one can act against God's will.

Then you must believe that sin is God's will, which is against the very nature of God since He is perfect and holy.

Makes no sense according to scripture. God permits sin in the sense of our free-will, but God does not want or will sin.

 

[Dkh587]

God is more powerful. Didn't you read in the book of Job where Ha'Satan was not able to get to Job until God removed his protection?

The devil is under the sovereignty of the Most High, and is only able to operate within the parameters that God sets. God uses the devil and everything under his sovereignty to bring about his will and purpose.

God Most High YHWH is supreme over all powers and authorities and spirits, including the devil, ha'satan

 

[Halbhh]

The devil is God's enemy (Matthew 13:25, Matthew 13:39). He is also the enemy of the people of God (Ephesians 6:11). The devil is the father of lies (John 8:44). He lies to God's people and tempts them to sin. He is the tempter of God's people (1 Thessalonians 3:5). He is the prince of the world in that he has deceived the whole world into participating in his rebellion against God (Revelation 12:9, Ephesians 2:2).

So we can safely say that if anyone is rebelling against God, the devil is involved. They are under his power and influence. And if anyones sins - including a believer - the devil is involved. He tempts people to sin and deceives people into sinning.

God saves people from the tyranny of the devil (Colossians 1:13). He is conquered by the blood of the lamb (Revelation 12:11). Surely the evil one hates this. He seeks to ensnare and destroy believers.

But is the devil stronger than God? Is he able to pluck them out of God's hand? Is he able to successfully tempt them to apostatize and to reject Jesus?

Jesus says no. In John 10:27-29 - 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

Paul says no. In Romans 8:38-39 he says - 38 For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Those who are saved can never lose their salvation because Jesus is stronger than the devil. If you say that believers can lose their salvation then you deny this. You're effectively saying that the devil can prevail, even in a small way, against the Lord.

It's a good argument, and the Parable of the Prodigal Son is perhaps the most powerful example that comes to mind, of how even the most lost seeming can be brought back. We ourselves don't have the omniscience required to know the future or even the entire heart of another person though! We cannot ever say, not even once, whether it's too late for someone, or whether they might turn and be brought back. Perhaps even in moments with their eyes closed on their death beds?.... We can't say. We simply don't have omniscience. Part of this is how surface appearances are not the same as what is in the heart. Someone can think one think or say one thing in their intellect/thoughts and out loud, and yet deeper inside in the soul or heart, there is another and different reality. (even if at some moment we might see something about the spirit of a person, that's still not the same as knowing their future, but is only knowing this moment) So, we can't even say who is lost ultimately. In this way, this reminds me of the doctrine of individual predestination, where even if it's true, it still doesn't need to be preached, but it seems incomplete also (not the whole by itself). Basically, I'm just reminded of the epistle of James, or really of all the epistles, where again and again we see the instructions to believers, which can not be wasted words.

 

[Halbhh]

We must be given instructions/commands because we really do need them. They are not merely for appearances or to show an ideal, but things we truly do need, and this is why they were given. In other words, even if grace will lead to whatever it takes to correct us, even then, Christ's commandments are not just for theology discussions or beauty, but they are to be put into practice, as Christ said in Matthew 7:21-27.

 

[Gideons300]

The devil is God's enemy (Matthew 13:25, Matthew 13:39). He is also the enemy of the people of God (Ephesians 6:11). The devil is the father of lies (John 8:44). He lies to God's people and tempts them to sin. He is the tempter of God's people (1 Thessalonians 3:5). He is the prince of the world in that he has deceived the whole world into participating in his rebellion against God (Revelation 12:9, Ephesians 2:2).

So we can safely say that if anyone is rebelling against God, the devil is involved. They are under his power and influence. And if anyones sins - including a believer - the devil is involved. He tempts people to sin and deceives people into sinning.

God saves people from the tyranny of the devil (Colossians 1:13). He is conquered by the blood of the lamb (Revelation 12:11). Surely the evil one hates this. He seeks to ensnare and destroy believers.

But is the devil stronger than God? Is he able to pluck them out of God's hand? Is he able to successfully tempt them to apostatize and to reject Jesus?

Jesus says no. In John 10:27-29 - 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

Paul says no. In Romans 8:38-39 he says - 38 For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Those who are saved can never lose their salvation because Jesus is stronger than the devil. If you say that believers can lose their salvation then you deny this. You're effectively saying that the devil can prevail, even in a small way, against the Lord.

This logic brings up another question as to how strong our adversary is to the strength of our God. It is the question of sin.

We know that God wills our holiness and that we know how to possess our vessels in sanctification and honor, amen? We know that it is our adversary that is behind all sin. But we are expressly told that we have been delivered from not only the guilt of sin, but the power of it.

So gracious is our God He has promised that He would not allow us to be tempted above our ability to resist. He has equipped us with spiritual armor, weaponry and shields that God promises will quench every single arrow.

May I then ask you, with the promise that if God be for us, who can be against us fresh in our thoughts, then who is stronger, God or the devil?

Blessings,

Gideon

 

[oOKnights TemplarOo]

He is "the Satan", "the adversary," a spiritual being whose challenge to the sovereignty and authority of God (Is 14:13-15; Ez 28:14-16) resulted in his fall from an intimate relationship with God, along with other angels who joined in his rebellion (Is 14:12-15; Ez 28:16; Rev 12:7-10). He is also called the Devil (from the Greek diablos), and Lucifer, which means "day-star" (Latin). He still has access to the heavenly court where he accuses man of sin (Job 1:6).

In the New Testament Jesus refereed to Satan as "the strong one [man]" (Matthew 12:29; Mark 3:27; Luke 11:21); the "evil one" (Mathew 13:19); and "the prince of this world" (John 12:31). Satan even tempts the Son of God (Matthew 4:3-11; Mark 1:13; Luke 4:2). When Peter tries to dissuade Jesus from fulfilling His Passion, Jesus calls Peter "satan" because his thoughts are human and not divine (Matthew 16:23; Mark 8:33). Satan takes the "seed" of the word of the Gospel from the mouth of those who receive it (Matthew 13:19; Mark 4:15; Luke 8:12). He put the betrayal of Jesus into the heart of Judas (John 13:2), and then entered Judas for the consummation of the terrible deed (Luke 22:3; Jn 13:27). He tempts man with designs (1 Corinthians 7:5, 2 Corinthians 2:11), with wiles (Ephesians 6:11), and with snares (1 Timothy 3:7; 2 Timothy 2:26). He can disguise himself as an angel of light (2 Corinthians 11:14) and he can even seduce some of the faithful (1Timothy 5:15). He is the enemy who is like a roaring lion seeking prey (1Peter 5:8) and Christians should give him no room to attempt his wiles in their lives (Ephesians 4:27). As the prince of darkness he has powers to do bodily harm (Luke 13:16; 1 Corinthians 5:5; 1Timothy 1:20) and the power to kill (Hebrews 2:14). (Luke 4:6). He has sons and daughters: those who do not do righteousness and do not love their brothers (1 John 3:8, 10). ©

 

[dqhall]

The devil is God's enemy (Matthew 13:25, Matthew 13:39). He is also the enemy of the people of God (Ephesians 6:11). The devil is the father of lies (John 8:44). He lies to God's people and tempts them to sin. He is the tempter of God's people (1 Thessalonians 3:5). He is the prince of the world in that he has deceived the whole world into participating in his rebellion against God (Revelation 12:9, Ephesians 2:2).

So we can safely say that if anyone is rebelling against God, the devil is involved. They are under his power and influence. And if anyones sins - including a believer - the devil is involved. He tempts people to sin and deceives people into sinning.

God saves people from the tyranny of the devil (Colossians 1:13). He is conquered by the blood of the lamb (Revelation 12:11). Surely the evil one hates this. He seeks to ensnare and destroy believers.

But is the devil stronger than God? Is he able to pluck them out of God's hand? Is he able to successfully tempt them to apostatize and to reject Jesus?

Jesus says no. In John 10:27-29 - 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

Paul says no. In Romans 8:38-39 he says - 38 For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Those who are saved can never lose their salvation because Jesus is stronger than the devil. If you say that believers can lose their salvation then you deny this. You're effectively saying that the devil can prevail, even in a small way, against the Lord.

If you do the works Jesus did, you will be saved.
Not all who say Jesus is Lord will be saved.

Matthew 7:21 (WEB) "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven; but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."

Matthew 22:14 (WEB) "For many are called, but few chosen."

 

[BobRyan]

I dont have an issue acknowledging that the bible is written by men n may not be infallible.

That is not the argument. The point of difference is whether the Bible is merely a product of ignorant men in pre-scientific cultures making up the best stuff they could think of at the time... or the actual Word of God - supernaturally inspired by God that is. You keep "assuming" the salient point in your view rather than showing that it is actually true.

I totally get why such a concept is threatening to christianity,

And do you "totally get" why it is not threatening to atheists or Buddhists to view the Bible that way?

Surely this is "the easy part" that we all see no matter which side of the issue we prefer.

but for me i cannot logically say that its unquestionably infallible when i dont know 100% that it is true.

And do you know for 100% certainty that it is not the work of infallible God?

How can I. So much is written that cant be verified and massive sections ard written by people unknown yet i am supposed to dispel any thoughts thats its any thing but perfect. Well i cant.

Ahh now that is the point! Faith.

But even you would agree that some have "chosen" faith in the religion of Christianity while others have not.

So then the real question to be explored is ... "evidence".

Is there evidence to support the arguments/claims that the Bible makes about itself?

Or to the contrary is there instead "evidence" that a rabbit will eventually be produced by dust, rock and gas given enough time and chance?

Or perhaps the real "other alternative" is that Hinduism or Buddhism has the actual inspired text and Christianity does not?

What evidence is there that the Bible is supernaturally inspired? One easy and obvious area of investigation would be in regard to the prophecies that it makes and if they are many years ahead of time and accurate that is an indicator that the Bible has supernatural origin.

 

[dreadnought]

It fits Ok - I think you can be tempted towards something and it not necessarily being an actual entity thats doing the tempting - rather its a psychological battle in your own mind. Does that sit comfortably with you?

Well, Jesus says Satan exists, so I will continue to believe Satan exists.

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

I dont accept that. It not necessary in order to follow a christian paradigm

Why continue to read a book that you consider to be full of lies ?