Is the creation debate over?

Davy

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Yeh agree evolution is pseudo science but data is not, why are there no human fossils before the Cenozoic then?
I'm not a geologist, but studies I read long ago from geologist's journals showed the gist of it that there was a major catastrophic period in the fossil record that literally destroyed the earth's creation, a literal time gap in the fossil record. And then there is a later creation of new life with new species similar to today's. We don't hear about this known 'gap' in the fossil record, but instead all these theorized geological periods from evolutionists.

Why we don't hear about that fossil record gap from the evolutionists is pretty obvious to me, it's because God's Word reveals a 'gap' between His original perfect creation (i.e., time prior to the fossil record gap right after Genesis 1:1), and today's creation (a 2nd world earth age that began at Genesis 1:3). Even Apostle Paul confirmed this change in God's original creation per Romans 8:18-25. And God revealed it in Jeremiah 4:23-28. And the evolutionists-pseudo-scientists definitely do not want to provide evidence that confirms God's written Word.

You know the woolly mammoth found in the Arctic zone has evolutionists at the Smithsonian baffled. It was found frozen solid buried in the ice, still with plant vegetation in its mouth and undigested in its stomach. That revealed it was caught in a green field grazing when it was buried suddenly with a flood of waters that then immediately turned to ice. If the mammoth had drowned with those waters freezing over a longer period of time, then the vegetation in its mouth and stomach would have shown decay. It didn't, meaning an instant freeze.

I believe what happened is that the majority of the waters upon today's earth, were originally up in the sky, with no sky holes in the atmosphere around the earth, and thus making God's original creation like a literal paradise over the whole... earth, the Poles also (which is likely why there's tropical animal and plant fossils found at both Poles). The woolly mammoth being caught in the Arctic zone in a green field grazing also supports that.

Then because of Satan's original rebellion in drawing a third of the angels into rebellion with him, God ended... that old world of His original creation, bringing those waters in the sky down upon the earth causing a flood, and thus the state of the earth at Genesis 1:2, covered with water.
 
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Twin_niwT

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Telll me more then please about this father god
Christ told me Father god is not God the Father (Christ's Father). Father god is God the Father's shadow side. Christ told me that God the Father had a "disagreement within Himself" which caused God the Father to "split into 3 circles" The circles are symbolic of God the Father, Father god, and Mother goddess. Christ has always existed with God the Father. He either comes forth from Him, or goes "back in to Him". Lucifer was formed by Father god, and Lydia (who was Jesus' mate in heaven) was "birthed" by Mother godless. The war in heaven was triggered when Lucifer swelled up with pride and stole Lydia from Christ. She cheated on Christ with Lucifer which caused all heck to break out in heaven. After the infidelity Lucifer and Lydia were kicked out of heaven. They settled in the Pleiades. Lucifer ruled Pleiades with Lydia until the Pleiadians revolted (because Lucifer was a crappy king.....that's all I'm going to write for now. What I just wrote was spoken to me directly by Christ in 2017. It is Christ's own story, don't even try to argue it with me, I'll just ignore you. I'm sharing only because Christ wants me to.
 
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Platte

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Platte, bara, the Hebrew word for "create" in the Bible, does not mean ex nihilo. That's kind of the crux of the dispute here. To say that earth was created ex nihilo, is not the same as saying that earth was created ex materia.

To be fair, the number 7 is also used excessively throughout the Bible to refer to the figurative concept of completion and fullness. So saying that earth was created in 7 days isn't any more literal than Jesus telling Peter to forgive people 70*7 times, or Solomons temple being created in 7 years on the 7th month with a 7 day feast and 7 day priest inauguration.

That's just how the Bible communicates completion.

Same with the number 40 in the Bible. It rained for 40 days and 40 nights, the Israelites wander the deserts for 40 days and 40 nights etc.

These are figurative verses and number in the Bible, not literal.

Then I lay prostrate before the Lord as before, forty days and forty nights; I neither ate bread nor drank water, because of all the sin you had committed, provoking the Lord by doing what was evil in his sight.
Deuteronomy 9:18 NRSV

Throughout the forty days and forty nights that I lay prostrate before the Lord when the Lord intended to destroy you,
Deuteronomy 9:25 NRSV

here Moses said that he didn't eat or drink and stayed in prayer for 40 days and 40 nights.

some cases are obviously figurative, others are more subtle. But that's just how the Bible is written, and the 7 days of creation in Genesis are no different.
The evening and the morning was a day described perfectly. You can disagree but what the Bible says is what the Bible says. Moses was in the wilderness 40 years not 40 days. Funny the Bible is not a historical document but it’s the first thing archaeologist refer to when they find something. History supports a 6000 year old earth.
 
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Job 33:6

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The evening and the morning was a day described perfectly. You can disagree but what the Bible says is what the Bible says. Moses was in the wilderness 40 years not 40 days. Funny the Bible is not a historical document but it’s the first thing archaeologist refer to when they find something. History supports a 6000 year old earth.
Yes and the Bible says that Moses did not eat or drink for 40 days and 40 nights. But the Bible here is not conveying a scientifically literal statement. As human beings cannot go even just 72 hours without water, let alone 40 days.

Then I lay prostrate before the Lord as before, forty days and forty nights; I neither ate bread nor drank water, because of all the sin you had committed, provoking the Lord by doing what was evil in his sight.
Deuteronomy 9:18 NRSV

Throughout the forty days and forty nights that I lay prostrate before the Lord when the Lord intended to destroy you,
Deuteronomy 9:25 NRSV

also, 7 is used in excess to denote figurative concepts related to completion. The number 7 is used in the Bible some 700 times. Whereas other numbers are not used anywhere near as frequently.

The words of Yahweh are pure words like silver refined in the crucible on the ground, refined seven times.
Psalms 12:6

“At the end of seven years you shall grant a remission of debt.
Deuteronomy 15:1

Then Peter came up to him and said, “Lord, how many times will my brother sin against me and I will forgive him? Up to seven times?” Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven!
Matthew 18:21‭-‬22

Elisha sent a messenger to him, saying, “Go, you must wash seven times in the Jordan, then your flesh shall return to you, and you shall be clean.”
2 Kings 5:10

And behold, there was a man who had a withered hand, and they asked him, saying, “Is it permitted to heal on the Sabbath?” in order that they could accuse him.
Matthew 12:10 (Jesus would heal on the 7th day)

A man with a deformed hand (Matthew 12:9-13); A man possessed by an unclean spirit (Mark 1:23-26); Peter’s mother-in-law with fever (Mark 1:29-31); A woman crippled by a spirit (Luke 13:10-13); A man with abnormal swelling of the body (Luke 14:1-4); A lame man by the pool of Bethesda (John 5:5-9); and A man born blind (John 9:1-7).

So now, swear to me here by God that you will not deal with me falsely, or with my descendants, or my posterity. According to the kindness that I have done to you, you shall pledge to do with me and with the land where you have dwelled as an alien.” And Abraham said, “I swear.” And Abraham took sheep and cattle and gave them to Abimelech. And the two of them made a covenant. Then Abraham set off seven ewe-lambs of the flock by themselves. And Abimelech said to Abraham, “What is the meaning of these seven ewe-lambs that you have set off by themselves?” And he said, “You shall take the seven ewe-lambs from my hand as proof on my behalf that I dug this well.”
Genesis 21:23‭-‬24‭, ‬27‭-‬30
(well of the oath or well of 7)

Then on the seventh day they rose early at dawn, and they marched around the city in this manner seven times. It was only on that day that they marched around the city seven times. And at the seventh time the priests blew on the trumpets, and Joshua said to the people, “Shout! For Yahweh has given you the city.
Joshua 6:15‭-‬16

“To the angel of the church in Ephesus write: “This is what the one who holds the seven stars in his right hand says, the one who walks in the midst of the seven gold lampstands: “And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write: “This is what the first and the last says, who was dead and came to life: “And to the angel of the church in Pergamum write: “This is what the one who has the sharp double-edged sword says: “And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write: “This is what the Son of God says, the one who has his eyes like a fiery flame and his feet like fine bronze:
Revelation 2:1‭, ‬8‭, ‬12‭, ‬18

“And to the angel of the church in Sardis write: “This is what the one who has the seven spirits of God and the seven stars says: ‘I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, and you are dead. “And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write: “This is what the holy one, the true one, the one who has the key of David, the one who opens and no one can shut, and who shuts and no one can open, says: “And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: “This is what the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the originator of God’s creation, says:
Revelation 3:1‭, ‬7‭, ‬14
(7 churches of revelation)

And I watched when the Lamb opened one of the seven seals, and I heard one of the four living creatures saying like the sound of thunder, “Come!”
Revelation 6:1

And when he opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour.
Revelation 8:1

And the seventh angel blew the trumpet, and there was a loud voice in heaven saying, “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will reign forever and ever.”
Revelation 11:15

And I heard a loud voice from the temple saying to the seven angels, “Go and pour out on the earth the seven bowls of the wrath of God.”
Revelation 16:1
And you shall not go outside the entrance of the tent of meeting for seven days, until the days of your ordination are completed, for it will take seven days to ordain you.
Leviticus 8:33

temple priest ordination in 7 days.

And in the eleventh year, in the month of Bul, which is the eighth month, the house was finished in all its parts, and according to all its specifications. He was seven years in building it.
1 Kings 6:38

The Temple constructed in 7 years.

And all the men of Israel assembled to King Solomon at the feast in the month Ethanim, which is the seventh month.
1 Kings 8:2

Inauguation feast on the 7th month.

So Solomon held the feast at that time, and all Israel with him, a great assembly, from Lebo-hamath to the Brook of Egypt, before the Lord our God, seven days.
1 Kings 8:65 ESV

Temple inauguration feast on the 7th day.

temple dedicated to God on the 7th day of the 7th month, after 7 years, and what does God do?

And I will dwell among the Israelites, and I will not forsake my people Israel.”
1 Kings 6:13 LEB

God rests.

genesis 1 split into 7 days to recognize the action of God taking presence in his temple. Kind of like a ceremony on which God prepares creation for His rulership.


- In the first month of the second year, on the first of the month, the tabernacle was set up.
1. And Moses raised the tabernacle, and he placed its bases, and he set up its frames, and he placed its bars, and he raised its pillars. And he spread the tent over the tabernacle; he placed the covering of the tent over it, above it, as Yahweh had commanded Moses.
2. And he took and he put the testimony into the ark, and he placed the poles on the ark, and he put the atonement cover on the ark, above it. And he brought the ark into the tabernacle, and he set up the curtain of the screening, and he shielded the ark of the testimony, as Yahweh had commanded Moses.
3. And he put the table in the tent of assembly on the north side of the tabernacle outside the curtain. And he arranged on it an arrangement of bread before Yahweh, as Yahweh had commanded Moses.
4. And he placed the lampstand in the tent of assembly opposite the table on the south side of the tabernacle. And he set up the lamps before Yahweh, as Yahweh had commanded Moses.
5. And he placed the gold altar in the tent of assembly before the curtain. And he turned fragrant incense into smoke on it, as Yahweh had commanded Moses.
6. And he set up the entrance screen for the tabernacle. And the altar of burnt offering he placed at the entrance of the tabernacle of the tent of assembly, and he offered on it the burnt offering and the grain offering, as Yahweh had commanded Moses.
7. And he placed the basin between the tent of assembly and the altar, and he put there water for washing. And Moses and Aaron and his sons washed their hands and their feet from it. At their going into the tent of assembly and at their approaching the altar, they washed, as Yahweh had commanded Moses.
-. And he set up the courtyard all around the tabernacle and the altar, and he put up the screen of the gate of the courtyard, and Moses completed the work.
Exodus 40:17‭-‬33 LEB

Then the Lord said to him, “Not so! Whoever kills Cain will suffer a sevenfold vengeance.” And the Lord put a mark on Cain, so that no one who came upon him would kill him. If Cain is avenged sevenfold, truly Lamech seventy-sevenfold.”
Genesis 4:15‭, ‬24 NRSV

Thus all the days of Lamech were seven hundred seventy-seven years; and he died.
Genesis 5:31 NRSV

And on the seventh day God finished the work that he had done, and he rested on the seventh day from all the work that he had done. So God blessed the seventh day and hallowed it, because on it God rested from all the work that he had done in creation.
Genesis 2:2‭-‬3 NRSV

Just like Moses not eating or drinking for 40 days, or 7 angels pouring 7 bowls of God's wrath upon the earth in revelation. the Bible uses numbers to communicate ideas. It's not about scientific literalism. And the same is true of the 7 days of Genesis creation.
 
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shaul

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The stance among Gap Theorists is that the word create (bara) means a new thing from God. (I would expand this to a new design from God) and make (asah) meaning anything God works on he has made, so making 'create' a subset of 'made'

Genesis 1 uses the phrase 'it was so' 6 times and perhaps 7 with the modified 'it was so; to 'was' in Gen 1:3
I suggest the ‘it was so’ has a plain text and obvious meaning. I suggest it is a confirmation of Gap Theory as it is referring to life or the cosmos in the previous creation. ‘It used to be that way’ (in the first creation). Note the way ‘it was so’ is never used when the word created (‘bara’) is used. ‘Bara’ is used for man and whales and birds, all of which are not in the original creation in Gap Theory as I present it-more later. They cannot be subject to ‘it was so’ as they were not there.
This is consistent with ‘bara’ meaning a new creation from God. And explains the omission of ‘it was so ‘ from some days or from some day 6 statements. (Gen 1:20-23) (Gen 1:26-27) (Gen 1:28).
Genesi 1:29-30 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat
And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so
Note how animals are vegetarians and have an added ’it was so’ whereas. man also is described as a vegetarian but he does not get the ‘it was so’ added. Why?
In effect any reference to man or a new creation (bara) bars the use of 'it was so' as they are not in the original creation.

'It was so what' you say? Well, there is a double narrative running right through Genesis 1 and 2 that, IMO, confirms Gap Theory beyond any doubt, every word in every verse, The double narrative first identified by Paul the Apostle in 2 Cor 4;6 but being extendable to both chapters and the whole only works with Gap theory and I believe with all my heart I can prove it.
This would make a good study in terms of the various theories and schools of beliefs concerning Creationism and what is contained (or not contained) in the Genesis account. How do we or should we look at the account in Genesis in relation not only to what is being conveyed in the Creation narrative verses what we know of the beings created during and prior to the creation story (in heaven or else place).
 
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Platte

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Yes and the Bible says that Moses did not eat or drink for 40 days and 40 nights. But the Bible here is not conveying a scientifically literal statement. As human beings cannot go even just 72 hours without water, let alone 40 days.

Then I lay prostrate before the Lord as before, forty days and forty nights; I neither ate bread nor drank water, because of all the sin you had committed, provoking the Lord by doing what was evil in his sight.
Deuteronomy 9:18 NRSV

Throughout the forty days and forty nights that I lay prostrate before the Lord when the Lord intended to destroy you,
Deuteronomy 9:25 NRSV

also, 7 is used in excess to denote figurative concepts related to completion. The number 7 is used in the Bible some 700 times. Whereas other numbers are not used anywhere near as frequently.

The words of Yahweh are pure words like silver refined in the crucible on the ground, refined seven times.
Psalms 12:6

“At the end of seven years you shall grant a remission of debt.
Deuteronomy 15:1

Then Peter came up to him and said, “Lord, how many times will my brother sin against me and I will forgive him? Up to seven times?” Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven!
Matthew 18:21‭-‬22

Elisha sent a messenger to him, saying, “Go, you must wash seven times in the Jordan, then your flesh shall return to you, and you shall be clean.”
2 Kings 5:10

And behold, there was a man who had a withered hand, and they asked him, saying, “Is it permitted to heal on the Sabbath?” in order that they could accuse him.
Matthew 12:10 (Jesus would heal on the 7th day)

A man with a deformed hand (Matthew 12:9-13); A man possessed by an unclean spirit (Mark 1:23-26); Peter’s mother-in-law with fever (Mark 1:29-31); A woman crippled by a spirit (Luke 13:10-13); A man with abnormal swelling of the body (Luke 14:1-4); A lame man by the pool of Bethesda (John 5:5-9); and A man born blind (John 9:1-7).

So now, swear to me here by God that you will not deal with me falsely, or with my descendants, or my posterity. According to the kindness that I have done to you, you shall pledge to do with me and with the land where you have dwelled as an alien.” And Abraham said, “I swear.” And Abraham took sheep and cattle and gave them to Abimelech. And the two of them made a covenant. Then Abraham set off seven ewe-lambs of the flock by themselves. And Abimelech said to Abraham, “What is the meaning of these seven ewe-lambs that you have set off by themselves?” And he said, “You shall take the seven ewe-lambs from my hand as proof on my behalf that I dug this well.”
Genesis 21:23‭-‬24‭, ‬27‭-‬30
(well of the oath or well of 7)

Then on the seventh day they rose early at dawn, and they marched around the city in this manner seven times. It was only on that day that they marched around the city seven times. And at the seventh time the priests blew on the trumpets, and Joshua said to the people, “Shout! For Yahweh has given you the city.
Joshua 6:15‭-‬16

“To the angel of the church in Ephesus write: “This is what the one who holds the seven stars in his right hand says, the one who walks in the midst of the seven gold lampstands: “And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write: “This is what the first and the last says, who was dead and came to life: “And to the angel of the church in Pergamum write: “This is what the one who has the sharp double-edged sword says: “And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write: “This is what the Son of God says, the one who has his eyes like a fiery flame and his feet like fine bronze:
Revelation 2:1‭, ‬8‭, ‬12‭, ‬18

“And to the angel of the church in Sardis write: “This is what the one who has the seven spirits of God and the seven stars says: ‘I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, and you are dead. “And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write: “This is what the holy one, the true one, the one who has the key of David, the one who opens and no one can shut, and who shuts and no one can open, says: “And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: “This is what the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the originator of God’s creation, says:
Revelation 3:1‭, ‬7‭, ‬14
(7 churches of revelation)

And I watched when the Lamb opened one of the seven seals, and I heard one of the four living creatures saying like the sound of thunder, “Come!”
Revelation 6:1

And when he opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour.
Revelation 8:1

And the seventh angel blew the trumpet, and there was a loud voice in heaven saying, “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will reign forever and ever.”
Revelation 11:15

And I heard a loud voice from the temple saying to the seven angels, “Go and pour out on the earth the seven bowls of the wrath of God.”
Revelation 16:1
And you shall not go outside the entrance of the tent of meeting for seven days, until the days of your ordination are completed, for it will take seven days to ordain you.
Leviticus 8:33

temple priest ordination in 7 days.

And in the eleventh year, in the month of Bul, which is the eighth month, the house was finished in all its parts, and according to all its specifications. He was seven years in building it.
1 Kings 6:38

The Temple constructed in 7 years.

And all the men of Israel assembled to King Solomon at the feast in the month Ethanim, which is the seventh month.
1 Kings 8:2

Inauguation feast on the 7th month.

So Solomon held the feast at that time, and all Israel with him, a great assembly, from Lebo-hamath to the Brook of Egypt, before the Lord our God, seven days.
1 Kings 8:65 ESV

Temple inauguration feast on the 7th day.

temple dedicated to God on the 7th day of the 7th month, after 7 years, and what does God do?

And I will dwell among the Israelites, and I will not forsake my people Israel.”
1 Kings 6:13 LEB

God rests.

genesis 1 split into 7 days to recognize the action of God taking presence in his temple. Kind of like a ceremony on which God prepares creation for His rulership.


- In the first month of the second year, on the first of the month, the tabernacle was set up.
1. And Moses raised the tabernacle, and he placed its bases, and he set up its frames, and he placed its bars, and he raised its pillars. And he spread the tent over the tabernacle; he placed the covering of the tent over it, above it, as Yahweh had commanded Moses.
2. And he took and he put the testimony into the ark, and he placed the poles on the ark, and he put the atonement cover on the ark, above it. And he brought the ark into the tabernacle, and he set up the curtain of the screening, and he shielded the ark of the testimony, as Yahweh had commanded Moses.
3. And he put the table in the tent of assembly on the north side of the tabernacle outside the curtain. And he arranged on it an arrangement of bread before Yahweh, as Yahweh had commanded Moses.
4. And he placed the lampstand in the tent of assembly opposite the table on the south side of the tabernacle. And he set up the lamps before Yahweh, as Yahweh had commanded Moses.
5. And he placed the gold altar in the tent of assembly before the curtain. And he turned fragrant incense into smoke on it, as Yahweh had commanded Moses.
6. And he set up the entrance screen for the tabernacle. And the altar of burnt offering he placed at the entrance of the tabernacle of the tent of assembly, and he offered on it the burnt offering and the grain offering, as Yahweh had commanded Moses.
7. And he placed the basin between the tent of assembly and the altar, and he put there water for washing. And Moses and Aaron and his sons washed their hands and their feet from it. At their going into the tent of assembly and at their approaching the altar, they washed, as Yahweh had commanded Moses.
-. And he set up the courtyard all around the tabernacle and the altar, and he put up the screen of the gate of the courtyard, and Moses completed the work.
Exodus 40:17‭-‬33 LEB

Then the Lord said to him, “Not so! Whoever kills Cain will suffer a sevenfold vengeance.” And the Lord put a mark on Cain, so that no one who came upon him would kill him. If Cain is avenged sevenfold, truly Lamech seventy-sevenfold.”
Genesis 4:15‭, ‬24 NRSV

Thus all the days of Lamech were seven hundred seventy-seven years; and he died.
Genesis 5:31 NRSV

And on the seventh day God finished the work that he had done, and he rested on the seventh day from all the work that he had done. So God blessed the seventh day and hallowed it, because on it God rested from all the work that he had done in creation.
Genesis 2:2‭-‬3 NRSV

Just like Moses not eating or drinking for 40 days, or 7 angels pouring 7 bowls of God's wrath upon the earth in revelation. the Bible uses numbers to communicate ideas. It's not about scientific literalism. And the same is true of the 7 days of Genesis creation.
Moses went 40 days without eating and drinking. Who was with Moses when that happened?
 
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