IS THE CHURCH HOLY?

[2win]

I have a loving brotherly reason for asking this question, and I hope to get some good "brotherly, and sisterly input"
God bless us all with Your mercy

 

[Faith Alone 1 Cor 15:1-4]

You are church , church is not building.
1 Corinthians 3:16-17

So if you are born again your are Holy , but your flesh is not Holy yet .

 

[gadar perets]

Eph 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Yeshua Messiah himself being the chief corner stone;
Eph 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Your question caught my eye. I am no longer Baptist, so I'm not here to debate or teach, but if you will permit, I'm very interested in your discussion.

I'm not sure it's proper for me to offer an answer though, especially not early in the thread, so I will abstain.

Though I'm interested in what you mean by Church, exactly, and more especially what you mean by Holy. (No debating, it's just that I can imagine the question being taken at least about four different ways, and there are probably more.)

God be with you!

 

[paul1149]

I think the question revolves on the definition of church. King James stipulated that his translation would do nothing to undermine the institutional church, and so it was. Church is ekklesia, the called-out ones. 1 Cor. twice tells us we are the temple of God. The first time, ch. 3, is in regard to the corporate body. The second time, ch 6, to the individual. Both are the temple of God, the temple of Holy Spirit, and therefore both are holy, which also means separated unto God.

 

[Tolworth John]

I have a loving brotherly reason for asking this question, and I hope to get some good "brotherly, and sisterly input"
God bless us all with Your mercy

The 'church' that is All those who trust in Jesus for salvation are holy, but only because Jesus has made them/you/me/etc holy.

The 'church' as an organisation or building is not and never will be holy.

 

[anna ~ grace]

I would say that every Christian is called to holiness, obedience, sacrifice, love, and developing a more Christ-like nature by the grace of God.

 

[2win]

Well I haven't found one answer I disagree with, and I like what everyone has said thus far. Someone ask for the definition of the church, and we got good answers; I like the definition; "The called out", or " Those born again in Jesus Christ", or "Those who have received Jesus Christ as Lord, and Savior"; And I certainly agree; "The building is not the church; "IS THE CHURCH HOLY?" Seems as though we are pretty much in agreement on what the church is; NOW IT IT HOLY? All the scripture I have read says; " we are called out to be Holy"; I have to go for now, but I will be back; bring in some more input!

 

[2win]

If a "water baptized" person, who says they have excepted Jesus Christ, and commits adultry; are they Holy?

 

[anna ~ grace]

If a "water baptized" person, who says they have excepted Jesus Christ, and commits adultry; are they Holy?

That is an interesting question. I know a few Protestants who would say "yes", by virtue of that soul's faith, and others who would say "no", due to adultery, so long as the adultery is on-going or has not been recognized as sin, or has not been asked forgiveness for.

I would answer "no"; personally, I reject Sola Fidé, and the assertion of the Reformers that one is saved by faith alone through grace alone. If a baptized soul who has also trusted in Christ commits adultery, they must cease their sin, confess their sin, and express and live out contrition.

 

[~Anastasia~]

I would say the Church is the ekklesia, the called-out ones, the body of Christ.

Holy, since it has not been defined, is usually set apart, set aside for special purpose, consecrated to God.

In that sense, by definition the Church IS holy, because it has been set aside (called out) for the purpose of being the body of Christ. In this case it is made Holy by God.

However, someone who is committing adultery is certainly not living in a holy manner. In this matter we must cooperate with the grace of God in order to become sanctified (purified) persons, and this is a matter of each one's choice, whether they will actually take up their cross and follow Christ, being transformed by the grace of God.


If you mean whether or not the Church consists only of Holy people, the answer is no, because everyone is at a different place on the path and the church is also a hospital for sinners.

Forgive me if I overstep, since you appear to wish members' opinions on this.

 

[2win]

I would say the Church is the ekklesia, the called-out ones, the body of Christ.

Holy, since it has not been defined, is usually set apart, set aside for special purpose, consecrated to God.

In that sense, by definition the Church IS holy, because it has been set aside (called out) for the purpose of being the body of Christ. In this case it is made Holy by God.

However, someone who is committing adultery is certainly not living in a holy manner. In this matter we must cooperate with the grace of God in order to become sanctified (purified) persons, and this is a matter of each one's choice, whether they will actually take up their cross and follow Christ, being transformed by the grace of God.


If you mean whether or not the Church consists only of Holy people, the answer is no, because everyone is at a different place on the path and the church is also a hospital for sinners.

Forgive me if I overstep, since you appear to wish members' opinions on this.

Your opinion is as good as anyone else's; and for the most part, I agree with you; I have had RCC church members as friends who would drink it up, and party on Saturday, then go to. confession on Sunday, and do the same thing over, and over.

 

[Adstar]

I have a loving brotherly reason for asking this question, and I hope to get some good "brotherly, and sisterly input"
God bless us all with Your mercy

If One defines the Church to be the Body of the community of people who believe Jesus and trust in the Atonement he secured for their salvation then.. Yes the Church is Holy.. Because the Atonement of Jesus covering them causes them to be deemed Holy in the Sight of God..

 

[2win]

If One defines the Church to be the Body of the community of people who believe Jesus and trust in the Atonement he secured for their salvation then.. Yes the Church is Holy.. Because the Atonement of Jesus covering them causes them to be deemed Holy in the Sight of God..

As said before, we are "called out to be Holy"; Now I want to ask; Are racist Christians Holy?

 

[~Anastasia~]

As said before, we are "called out to be Holy"; Now I want to ask; Are racist Christians Holy?

I'm not too keen on labeling people with their sin. Repentance is always possible.

But racism has absolutely no place in Christianity if that answers your question.

 

[Adstar]

As said before, we are "called out to be Holy"; Now I want to ask; Are racist Christians Holy?

If they believe God that all men are created equal in Gods sight and if they acknowledge that their racist thoughts are transgressions against the will of God.. Then yes they are deemed by God to be Holy because the atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ covers their sin of racism.. They are in a state of being forgiven their personal faults..

The Christian belief is all about being forgiven and covered by the blood of Jesus.. There is only one sin that shall not be covered and racism is not that sin...

 

[2win]

I'm not too keen on labeling people with their sin. Repentance is always possible.

But racism has absolutely no place in Christianity if that answers your question.

Yes that answers the question to some extent; certainly we can always repent of whatever is not pleasing to our Lord. This is not a denominational problem, that I see, there is "unholiness" in every branch of the church that I know of; We can be Born again, saved Christians, and be unholy "in my opinion"; the definition I get for Holy I being perfect in our Lord.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Yes that answers the question to some extent; certainly we can always repent of whatever is not pleasing to our Lord. This is not a denominational problem, that I see, there is "unholiness" in every branch of the church that I know of; We can be Born again, saved Christians, and be unholy "in my opinion"; the definition I get for Holy I being perfect in our Lord.

Yes, that's why it is all about definitions.

We can see easily enough that Christians struggle with this or that. To the degree that they have not progressed in being sanctified, there are often various kinds of outward sins.

If we are honest, we can easily enough see sins in ourselves (the only sins we really ought to be concerned with). Even if we have progressed in being sanctified to the point where we might not betray our sins to others, we are still being sanctified. We may sometimes get offended with others (usually rooted in pride), fall into a moment of covetousness, be tempted to lust, replay conversations or circumstances in our minds in order to exact some vengeful satisfaction, dishonor our parents in our thoughts, or whatever our personal struggle/s may be.

My point just being to agree with you that there is visible unholiness in the actions of individual Christians, yes, but even among those who have become more sanctified there is some degree of growth still needed. It's a process.

Unfortunately, I think some don't acknowledge these processes or are even taught against them to one extreme (true Christians never sin) or the other (Christians sin exactly the same as before they were Christian, they are just legally forgiven now). Both extremes are dangerous. And I'm sorry - I'm rambling. I'm obviously being distracted here.

I really just meant to agree with you. God be with you.

 

[2win]

Yes, that's why it is all about definitions.

We can see easily enough that Christians struggle with this or that. To the degree that they have not progressed in being sanctified, there are often various kinds of outward sins.

If we are honest, we can easily enough see sins in ourselves (the only sins we really ought to be concerned with). Even if we have progressed in being sanctified to the point where we might not betray our sins to others, we are still being sanctified. We may sometimes get offended with others (usually rooted in pride), fall into a moment of covetousness, be tempted to lust, replay conversations or circumstances in our minds in order to exact some vengeful satisfaction, dishonor our parents in our thoughts, or whatever our personal struggle/s may be.

My point just being to agree with you that there is visible unholiness in the actions of individual Christians, yes, but even among those who have become more sanctified there is some degree of growth still needed. It's a process.

Unfortunately, I think some don't acknowledge these processes or are even taught against them to one extreme (true Christians never sin) or the other (Christians sin exactly the same as before they were Christian, they are just legally forgiven now). Both extremes are dangerous. And I'm sorry - I'm rambling. I'm obviously being distracted here.

I really just meant to agree with you. God be with you.

You did very good! You really brought out what I see in "us/me" the Church; I think I need to; "Look at myself before I look at others" then I can be a part of the fix, and not the problem; But "We the Church do have a problem with being unloving toward others; We even have it right here on these forums.

 

[~Anastasia~]

You did very good! You really brought out what I see in "us/me" the Church; I think I need to; "Look at myself before I look at others" then I can be a part of the fix, and not the problem; But "We the Church do have a problem with being unloving toward others; We even have it right here on these forums.

Glad it wasn't just belaboring as I'd feared then.

God be with you.