Is the Book of Revelation the only place in Scripture teaching eternal torment?

[FineLinen]

Revelation 20:10 depicts hell in the following manner (NKJV, emphasis mine):

The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.​

Also, while it doesn't directly say the torment is eternal, Revelation 14:11 comes close as well (NKJV, emphasis mine):

And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.​

Aside from these two verses in Revelation, do any other Books of the Bible depict eternal torment, or is the symbolic Book of Revelation the only source for eternal torment? If not, it could be difficult to know whether we should interpret these verses literally.

Note: I'm not looking for verses that discuss eternal "punishment" (which is vaguer) or verses that speak of just "torment" without saying such is forever/eternal. Rather, I'm looking specifically for verses that depict torment/torture as being eternal/forever.

Search = "eternal torment"

There are no concordance results for "eternal torment" in the KJV.

The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases.

 

[Der Alte]

John 5:22-30 which is a further clarification of Daniel 12:1-4
Matthew 25:31-46
There are various opinions on whether certain Greek words mean eternal as in judgment. I am no linguist, but the Orthodox Church is the Ancient Greek speaking church ( from which others formed) and our hymns on the final judgment are serious about everlasting judgment.
https://sourcebooks.fordham.edu/basis/triodion/lstjudg.txt

If I may. I have done quite a bit of study on Matt 25:31-46

EOB Matthew:25:46 When he will answer them, saying: ‘Amen, I tell you: as much as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46 These [ones on the left] will go away into eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] punishment, [κόλασις/kolasis] but the righteous into eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] life.”​

Greek has been the language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox church since its inception, 2000 years ago +/-. Note, the native Greek speaking Eastern Orthodox Greek scholars, translators of the EOB, translated “aionios,” in Matt 25:46, as “eternal,” NOT “age.”
Who is better qualified than the team of native Greek speaking scholars, translators of the Eastern Greek Orthodox Bible [EOB], quoted above and below, to know the correct translation of the Greek in the N.T.?
Link to EOB online:
The New Testament ( The Eastern-Greek Orthodox Bible) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
…..The Greek word “kolasis” occurs only twice in the N.T., 1st occurrence Matt 25:46, above, and the 2nd occurrence 1 John 4:18., below.

EOB 1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear, because fear is connected with punishment.[κόλασις/kolasis] But the one who fears is not yet perfect in love.​

In the EOB the Greek word “kolasis” is translated “punishment” in both Matt 25:46 and 1 John 4:18. Some mis/uninformed folks claim “kolasis” really means “prune” or “correction.” However, that is an etymological fallacy. According to the EOB Greek scholars “kolasis” means “punishment.”
Note: in 1 John 4:18 there is no correction, the one with “kolasis” is not made perfect. Thus “kolasis” does not/cannot mean “correction.”
…..It is understood that modern Greek differs from koine Greek but I am confident that the Greek speaking EOB scholars, supported by 2000 years +/- of Greek scholarship, are competent enough to know the correct definition of obsolete words which may have changed in meaning or are no longer in use and to translate them correctly. Just as scholars today know the meaning of obsolete words which occur in the KJV and to define them correctly.

 

[Blade]

Those that do not believe have no hope and can not see nor understand spiritual things nor His word. If we look at this through the natural the eyes of man and how we see good and evil we are blind to the truth. God is not a man that He should lie. He does not think like us. This was done before we were made. We have no say in this what so ever. To be blunt forgive me don't like it or feel its wrong.. don't matter He was not asking.

He is just.. cares more loves more shows more mercy grace forgiveness then we can ever do. All that being said Satan can only lie, twist the truth. Like when the demons saw Him coming said "have you come to torment us before out time?" A truth yet a lie. He will never torment them. For the fallen angels hell was already made and will be toss into the lake of fire. Praise God when it comes to man I truly believe most are blind since we know those in heaven from every tribe and nation no man can count. OOH Love that.

 

[Kilk1]

Well, it seems there is an enduring torment in that place, at least for the fallen angels we would think in that they may be able to endure that fire in that they are immortal, where it seems it is lasting because the fire itself never dies out: "the worms that eat them do not die and the fire is not quenched.’" Mark 9 NIV

I don't know such a detailed aspect about the beast as it being a 'city' (instead of something else like nation(s)) for instance, but here's one viewpoint if you want to hear one: Who is the beast of Revelation? | GotQuestions.org

I might be wrong about the beast specifically being called a city/government. As for Mark 9, Jesus is quoting from Isaiah 66:24. In context, the verse Jesus quotes from is about dead corpses, not living, conscious beings. Could the idea simply be that the fire and worms are unquenchable/unkillable (essentially unstoppable) rather than that the ones suffering from the fire and worms don't die?

 

[Kilk1]

If I may. I have done quite a bit of study on Matt 25:31-46

EOB Matthew:25:46 When he will answer them, saying: ‘Amen, I tell you: as much as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46 These [ones on the left] will go away into eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] punishment, [κόλασις/kolasis] but the righteous into eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] life.”​

Greek has been the language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox church since its inception, 2000 years ago +/-. Note, the native Greek speaking Eastern Orthodox Greek scholars, translators of the EOB, translated “aionios,” in Matt 25:46, as “eternal,” NOT “age.”
Who is better qualified than the team of native Greek speaking scholars, translators of the Eastern Greek Orthodox Bible [EOB], quoted above and below, to know the correct translation of the Greek in the N.T.?
Link to EOB online:
The New Testament ( The Eastern-Greek Orthodox Bible) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
…..The Greek word “kolasis” occurs only twice in the N.T., 1st occurrence Matt 25:46, above, and the 2nd occurrence 1 John 4:18., below.

EOB 1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear, because fear is connected with punishment.[κόλασις/kolasis] But the one who fears is not yet perfect in love.​

In the EOB the Greek word “kolasis” is translated “punishment” in both Matt 25:46 and 1 John 4:18. Some mis/uninformed folks claim “kolasis” really means “prune” or “correction.” However, that is an etymological fallacy. According to the EOB Greek scholars “kolasis” means “punishment.”
Note: in 1 John 4:18 there is no correction, the one with “kolasis” is not made perfect. Thus “kolasis” does not/cannot mean “correction.”
…..It is understood that modern Greek differs from koine Greek but I am confident that the Greek speaking EOB scholars, supported by 2000 years +/- of Greek scholarship, are competent enough to know the correct definition of obsolete words which may have changed in meaning or are no longer in use and to translate them correctly. Just as scholars today know the meaning of obsolete words which occur in the KJV and to define them correctly.

I've heard a similar argument about the word "punishment" being used against universalism, the view that hellfire is corrective and temporary, ending as soon as the ones suffering repent, at which point they enter into heaven. However, I'm not asking about universalism but annihilationism. The annihilationist position is that those in hell suffer the death penalty, which is both punishment and everlasting. Thus, it seems to fit with Matthew 25, perhaps even better than does eternal conscious torment. The reason is that everlasting punishment is contrasted with everlasting "life" (Matthew 25:46). Since the righteous have eternal "life," this suggests the nature of the wicked's contrasting punishment would be death, rather than eternal life in misery. I think the passage could favor annihilationism but, by itself, could go either way.

 

[Der Alte]

I've heard a similar argument about the word "punishment" being used against universalism, the view that hellfire is corrective and temporary, ending as soon as the ones suffering repent, at which point they enter into heaven. However, I'm not asking about universalism but annihilationism. The annihilationist position is that those in hell suffer the death penalty, which is both punishment and everlasting. Thus, it seems to fit with Matthew 25, perhaps even better than does eternal conscious torment. The reason is that everlasting punishment is contrasted with everlasting "life" (Matthew 25:46). Since the righteous have eternal "life," this suggests the nature of the wicked's contrasting punishment would be death, rather than eternal life in misery. I think the passage could favor annihilationism but, by itself, could go either way.

Not a lot of scripture supporting that view. Jesus is quoted as using the word "death" 18 times. When He said death He meant death, when He said "punishment" He meant "punishment."

κόλασις, εως, ἡ (s. prec. three entries; ‘punishment, chastisement’ so Hippocr.+; Diod S 1, 77, 9; 4, 44, 3; Aelian, VH 7, 15; SIG2 680, 13; LXX; TestAbr, Test12Patr, ApcEsdr, ApcSed; AscIs 3:13; Philo, Leg. ad Gai. 7, Mos. 1, 96; Jos., Ant. 17, 164; SibOr 5, 388; Ar. [Milne 76, 43]; Just.)
① infliction of suffering or pain in chastisement, punishment so lit. κ. ὑπομένειν undergo punishment Ox 840, 6; δειναὶ κ. (4 Macc 8:9) MPol 2:4; ἡ ἐπίμονος κ. long-continued torture ibid. Of the martyrdom of Jesus (Orig., C. Cels. 1, 48, 95; 8, 43, 12) PtK 4 p. 15, 34. The smelling of the odor arising fr. sacrifices by polytheists ironically described as punishment, injury (s. κολάζω) Dg 2:9.
② transcendent retribution, punishment (ApcSed 4:1 κόλασις καὶ πῦρ ἐστιν ἡ παίδευσίς σου.— Diod S 3, 61, 5; 16, 61, 1; Epict. 3, 11, 1; Dio Chrys. 80 [30], 12; 2 Macc 4:38 al. in LXX; Philo, Spec. Leg. 1, 55; 2, 196; Jos., Ant. 1, 60 al.; Just.; Did., Gen., 115, 28; 158, 10) ApcPt 17:32; w. αἰκισμός 1 Cl 11:1. Of eternal punishment (w. θάνατος) Dg 9:2 (Diod S 8, 15, 1 κ. ἀθάνατος). Of hell: τόπος κολάσεως ApcPt 6:21 (Simplicius in Epict. p. 13, 1 εἰς ἐκεῖνον τὸν τόπον αἱ κολάσεως δεόμεναι ψυχαὶ καταπέμπονται); ἐν τῇ κ. ἐκείνῃ 10:25; ibid. ἐφορῶσαι τὴν κ. ἐκείνων (cp. ApcEsdr 5:10 p. 30, 2 Tdf. ἐν τῇ κ.). ἐκ τῆς κ. ApcPt Rainer (cp. ἐκ τὴν κ. ApcSed 8:12a; εἰς τὴν κ. 12b and TestAbr B 11 p. 116, 10 [Stone p. 80]). ἀπέρχεσθαι εἰς κ. αἰώνιον go away into eternal punishment Mt 25:46 (οἱ τῆς κ. ἄξιοι ἀπελεύσονται εἰς αὐτήν Iren. 2, 33, 5 [Harv. I 380, 8]; κ. αἰώνιον as TestAbr A 11 p. 90, 7f [Stone p. 28]; TestReub 5:5; TestGad 7:5; Just., A I, 8, 4; D. 117, 3; Celsus 8, 48; pl. Theoph. Ant. 1, 14 [p. 90, 13]). ῥύεσθαι ἐκ τῆς αἰωνίου κ. rescue fr. eternal punishment 2 Cl 6:7. τὴν αἰώνιον κ. ἐξαγοράζεσθαι buy one’s freedom fr. eternal pun. MPol 2:3 v.l. κακαὶ κ. τοῦ διαβόλου IRo 5:3. κ. τινος punishment for someth. (Ezk 14:3, 7; 18:30; Philo, Fuga 65 ἁμαρτημάτων κ.) ἔχειν κόλασίν τινα τῆς πονηρίας αὐτοῦ Hs 9, 18, 1. ἀναπαύστως ἕξουσιν τὴν κ. they will suffer unending punishment ApcPt Bodl. 9–12. ὁ φόβος κόλασιν ἔχει fear has to do with punishment 1J 4:18 (cp. Philo, In Flacc. 96 φόβος κολάσεως).—M-M. TW.[1]

[1] William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 2000), 555.​

 

[Der Alte]

@Kilk
The lake of fire passages, in context.

Revelation 2:11 'Whoever has an ear should listen to what the Spirit is saying to the Churches. The one who overcomes will not be harmed by the second death.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and ho1y is the one who has part in the first resurrection! Over these, the second death has no power, but they will be priests” of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.
Rev 19:20 But the beast was captured and with him the false prophet who worked the signs in his sight and by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who expressed adoration to his image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur.2 ​

And 1000 years later, the beast and the false prophet, who is a person, are still in the lake of fire.

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet
are, and [they] shall be tormented [plural verb] day and night for ever and ever.
Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.​

The lake of fire [LOF] is called “the second death” twice in Rev. vss. 20:14 and 21:8. While this is true, Rev. never says that anyone is thrown into the LOF then they die.
…..The terms “the lake of fire” and “the second death” are interchangeable.
“The lake of fire” is “the second death” and “the second death” is “the lake of fire,” thus we can see that it is not synonymous with death or destruction.
…..We also see that being thrown into the LOF is not synonymous with death from Rev 19:20, where the beast and the false prophet, who was a person, are thrown into the LOF and 1000 years later, in 20:10 the devil, is thrown into the LOF.
Three living, sentient, beings, are thrown into the LOF but they do not die, they are tormented day and night for ever and ever. There is not one verse in Revelation which says anyone/anything is thrown into the LOF then they/it dies.
…..Rev 20:14 does say death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. Death is the point in time end of life; it has no physical presence and cannot be literally thrown anywhere.
If “hell” refers to the grave, graves are empty holes. Empty cannot be literally thrown anywhere. Since neither death nor hell could/did die a first death they can’t die a second death.
But there is a scriptural answer which does not involve mixing literal and figurative in one sentence. There is a death and hell which are sentient beings and can be thrown into the LOF.

Revelation 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.​

My name for these two sentient beings is, “the angel of death” and “the demon of hell.” Others can feel free to call them whatever they want. The 2 beings are thrown into the LOF and their power to kill ended.
….Additional verses which show that the LOF is not synonymous with death or destruction.

Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Revelation 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.​

. Rev 21:4 says “there shall be no more death.” In vs. 5 Jesus said “Behold I make all things new.”
“No more death” but 3 verses later, Rev 21:8 says eight groups of the unrighteous; [the]fearful, [the] unbelieving, the abominable, murderers, whoremongers, sorcerers, idolaters and liars “shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is [still called] the second death.”
If there is “no more death,” after vs. 4, then those thrown into the lake of fire in vs. 8 do not die although it is called the “second death.”.

Revelation 22:11
(11) He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.​

The last chapter of the Bible, Rev. 22:11., 10 more vss. No salvation, no destruction, no death, only “He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still.”

 

[Br4nd0n]

2 thessalonians 1:8-9

 

[HTacianas]

You mean this? --Early forms of annihilationism or conditional immortality are claimed to be found in the writings of Ignatius of Antioch (d. 108/140), Justin Martyr (d. 165), and Irenaeus (d. 202), among others.

We have to honestly admit that church fathers didn't all agree on every last thing.

You're right that the Church Fathers did not agree on everything. But the Church itself does. We do not have to accept everything that every Church Father said, but only that which is generally accepted by the Church. Another example is Millennialism. The earliest Christians disagreed on its meaning but it was eventually abrogated by the Church.

 

[FineLinen]

He is just.. cares more loves more shows more mercy grace forgiveness then we can ever do.

There are no buts!

The Father of all fathers exceeds anything we can think.

Put together al the tenderest love you know of, multiply it by infinity and you will begin to catch a glimpse of the love and grace of God. He who cares for the sparrows and numbers the hairs of your head, cannot ever fail us. ~Hannah W. Smith

Ever ! !

 

[FineLinen]

He is just.. cares more loves more shows more mercy grace forgiveness then we can ever do.

There are no buts!

The Father of all fathers exceeds anything we can think.

Put together al the tenderest love you know of, multiply it by infinity and you will begin to catch a glimpse of the love and grace of God. He who cares for the sparrows and numbers the hairs of your head, cannot fail us. ~Hannah W. Smith

 

[Jipsah]

A song discribes that it is impossible to evade God, using Heaven and Hell as the two extemes. Not a good place for forming theology.

Better to just make something up? "Oh yeah, God isn't there." Really? Sez who?

 

[Jipsah]

The majorite vote does not determine what is right.

I'm not the one who used the vox populi to support his position, am I?

 

[wendykvw]

Revelation 20:10 depicts hell in the following manner (NKJV, emphasis mine):

The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.​

Also, while it doesn't directly say the torment is eternal, Revelation 14:11 comes close as well (NKJV, emphasis mine):

And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.​

Aside from these two verses in Revelation, do any other Books of the Bible depict eternal torment, or is the symbolic Book of Revelation the only source for eternal torment? If not, it could be difficult to know whether we should interpret these verses literally.

Note: I'm not looking for verses that discuss eternal "punishment" (which is vaguer) or verses that speak of just "torment" without saying such is forever/eternal. Rather, I'm looking specifically for verses that depict torment/torture as being eternal/forever.

The wages of sin is death.
Romans 6:23

 

[Tolworth John]

Better to just make something up? "Oh yeah, God isn't there." Really? Sez who?

The point about he'll is that it is an eternity without God.

 

[Andrewn]

It also doesn't say it applies to people.

The point about he'll is that it is an eternity without God.

Rev 14:9 Then another angel, a third, followed them, crying with a loud voice, “Those who worship the beast and its image and receive the brand on their foreheads or on their hands,10 they will also drink the wine of God’s wrath, poured unmixed into the cup of his anger, and they will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image and for anyone who receives the brand of its name.”

 

[Hmm]

Rev 14:9 Then another angel, a third, followed them, crying with a loud voice, “Those who worship the beast and its image and receive the brand on their foreheads or on their hands,10 they will also drink the wine of God’s wrath, poured unmixed into the cup of his anger, and they will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image and for anyone who receives the brand of its name.”

Being pedantic though, even this doesn't say that the torment goes on forever, only that the smoke does. But what does the "smoke of their torment" mean? Could it mean the "effect of their torment" in the sense that everything we experience has some effect on us for all of our lives and perhaps into eternity too? I certainly wouldn't want to go to a heaven where there's no memory of this life, would you?

But the whole thing is a vision anyway isn't it and so there is no one-to-one correspondence with reality on every detail?

 

[public hermit]

We have to honestly admit that church fathers didn't all agree on every last thing

This is a good point; you see it in the Cappadocians. Macrina and her brother, Gregory of Nyssa, held that all would be reconciled to God. Their brother, Basil, believed in eternal punishment. And Gregory of Nazianzus was on the fence (pace Jaroslav Pelikan).

 

[Der Alte]

Being pedantic though, even this doesn't say that the torment goes on forever, only that the smoke does. But what does the "smoke of their torment" mean? Could it mean the "effect of their torment" in the sense that everything we experience has some effect on us for all of our lives and perhaps into eternity too? I certainly wouldn't want to go to a heaven where there's no memory of this life, would you?
But the whole thing is a vision anyway isn't it and so there is no one-to-one correspondence with reality on every detail?

If the fiery torment ends then the smoke ends, right? I'm sure the angel's only concern was how long the smoke went up. "no one-to-one correspondence with reality on every detail" Right! So the angel tells us about something that has no meaning? I think the phrase "no rest day or night" pretty much cements it. The torment was as eternal as the smoke ascending.

 

[Hmm]

If the fiery torment ends then the smoke ends, right?

Well, no! If it's literal smoke then it's coming from the corporeal Hmm, to take me as an example, who (unjustly) is being burned forever and ever. But that means that I will lose mass over time, becoming an ever slimmer and more sylph like Hmm, until eventually I disappear and there's no more smoke. It's a vision and not a literal account IOW.