Is the Bible Without Error?

[Steve Petersen]

so you'll just ignore 2 peter 1:20-21 that says people didn't write on their own but were lead by the Spirit? what did the Spirit lead these people to write, their own thoughts or the LORD's? Scripture says the LORD(Hebrews 1:1, ephesians 2:19-20)

Jesus seemed to believe the Scriptures to be the Word of God( matthew 19:4-6, luke 4:1-13). notice our Savior quoted Scripture as if it were the very Word of God.



and I already explained that he was utilizing his apostolic authority in making a judgement which is binding on the church. this is not Paul going off on his own apart from the Spirit of God.


yeah, I think it is time for you to go.

Yet many of the NT quotations of the OT seem to be either a free-style translation from Hebrew to Greek or from the Septuagint. The differences between the LXX and the Masoretic texts is sometimes very significant.

 

[gordonhooker]

I would rather say, the indefectability--meaning that it was and remains inspired of the Holy Spirit, but error MAY have crept in in the various translations into other languages, even going from Greek to Latin. I am sure only of the inspired Word of God, which was made manifest in the Septuagint, (Greek) translation of the OT, and the Greek NT.

Given the Septuagint was a translation from the original language then I don't know that I would put a 100% guarantee on that either. We will never be 100% certain because the original documents do not exist.

 

[Neogaia777]

The dead sea scrolls were no different from what we had, and they are over 2,000 years old...

 

[greenguzzi]

ephesians 2:19-20, ephesians 3:3-7

the Holy Spirit inspired the NT apostles in the same way they inspired the OT prophets.

Yeah, ok. But is the Holy Spirit still talking?

 

[greenguzzi]

Why you heretic. Are you trying to tell me that when the wise men approached the beaming young mother Mary, she didn't with joy go to the crib and pull back the covers declaring; "Behold the Word of GOD .....A BOOK!!!!"

I think the Holy Mother would have noticed that she had produced a book rather than a person, and started to read it to work out what to do next!

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

Yeah, ok. But is the Holy Spirit still talking?

yes, but the canon is closed. the Holy Spirit will not speak anything contradictory to Scripture.

He may tell someone to take this job or marry this person or go to this place on a mission trip.

 

[Steve Petersen]

yes, but the canon is closed. the Holy Spirit will not speak anything contradictory to Scripture.

He may tell someone to take this job or marry this person or go to this place on a mission trip.

Whose canon are we talking about?

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

Whose canon are we talking about?

the one not including the apocrypha or any gnostic literature.

66 books.

 

[Hillsage]

so you'll just ignore 2 peter 1:20-21 that says people didn't write on their own but were lead by the Spirit? what did the Spirit lead these people to write, their own thoughts or the LORD's? Scripture says the LORD(Hebrews 1:1, ephesians 2:19-20)

YES YES YES.....GOD's THOUGHTS/ideas!!!! Not word for word occultic automatic handwriting. You are spiritually aware enough, I hope, to understand what I am referring to.

Jesus seemed to believe the Scriptures to be the Word of God( matthew 19:4-6, luke 4:1-13). notice our Savior quoted Scripture as if it were the very Word of God.

You do understand the difference between Him being the Word/LOGOS versus Jesus speaking the words/RHEMA of God too don't you? It's similar to a book being in the crib versus a person. That all figures in to my theology, so if it doesn't yours, you might want to reconsider 'teaching me' and start student-ing a bit more.

JOH 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words/RHEMA of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

JOH 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words/RHEMA that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

and I already explained that he was utilizing his apostolic authority in making a judgement which is binding on the church. this is not Paul going off on his own apart from the Spirit of God.

And as I said 'your opinion'. Give me scripture supporting your opinion.

yeah, I think it is time for you to go.

Seriously???? <Staff Edit> Welcome to the CONTROVERSIAL forum bro.

 

[Steve Petersen]

the one not including the apocrypha or any gnostic literature.

66 books.

So, the Catholic bible has a longer version of Daniel and a shorter version of Jeremiah than the Protestant bibles. Which one of these is 'without error?'

 

[pescador]

Duplicate post. See below.

 

[pescador]

Who is Jesus? Why is he of any significance?

In poor taste and not funny in the slightest.

 

[pescador]

Yeah, ok. But is the Holy Spirit still talking?

Yes.

 

[Phantasman]

2nd Peter:
15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Even Peter had a hard time understanding Paul's spiritual depth. Not here though.

 

[pescador]

2nd Peter:
15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Even Peter had a hard time understanding Paul's spiritual depth. Not here though.

Peter didn't write that he had a hard time understanding what Paul wrote. He said [in clearly-translated English] that "[Paul's] letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction." I doubt he included himself as an ignorant and unstable person who distorted what Paul wrote. It is clear that he is referring to others who twisted the gospel that had been given to Paul.

 

[Hillsage]

Yes.

AND....He's "talking" to me too.

JOH 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Thank God I'm not 'book bound', but 'Spirit led and book led'. Imperfectly with both I admit, and not just because of the imperfectly written 'bible' in our hands today.

I admit flaws in both "Spirit led" and "book led". But since all this "closed canon" talk has no more authority then that of men 500 years ago, I'm still open to writing more scripture. Therefore, I have my own translation of the 'living' WORDs/RHEMA of God, which I have heard. I call it the DIRT version of the bible. The acronym stands for D..'s Inspired Revelation Translation. It's not very big, but every verse is a huge testimony in my life.

DIRT 1:1 "There she is!"
The 'word' I heard as I was praying to God for a girl to truly love. He spoke it concerning a girl (I never knew) but saw running across the street and disappearing down the alley. I jumped in my car to find her, were married 8 months later....and 45 years ago.

DIRT 1:2 "Fear knocked, FAITH answered, and no one was there."
The 'word' I heard in the first demonic manifestation I ever had.

I hope you get the 'idea'.

 

[sparow]

are you now saying the OT prophets were not inspired to pen God's Word as 2 timothy 3:16-17 and 2 peter 1:20-21 says? up until the time of Pentecost when they received the Holy Spirit in power, the 12 were quite confused about things. Jesus had to help much to get them up to speed. I don't think this had much to do with training but rather the power of God to lead them on the right path.

Our communication seems to be tangled some how. I am saying your use of the word "inspired" is incorrect and that the scriptures do not say what you imply.

Everything about God is Holy; not necessarily kept Holy by men; the Law is Holy, the Sabbath is Holy, God's feasts are Holy, His communications with men are Holy; what is transcribed on to paper with ink and molested is not Holy; Jesus did commend the Jews for preserving the scriptures, I believe or remember reading.

With 2 Timothy 3:16-17, there is an assumption that the scriptures were unmolested, and Paul had access to the same scripture that Jesus had; this is not the case for us.

Jeremiah 8:8 (NKJV)
8 "How can you say, 'We are wise, And the law of the LORD is with us'? Look, the false pen of the scribe certainly works falsehood.

2 Peter 1:20-21, says nothing more than, the prophets of old did not make prophesy up, they did not interpret prophesy from scripture, but received prophesy directly from God; apart from talking man to man with Jesus, John, when he received Revelation is the only one who has received prophesy directly from God; and that still has to be tested against the two witnesses, the OT and the NT, or the father and the son.

 

[sparow]

Peter didn't write that he had a hard time understanding what Paul wrote. He said [in clearly-translated English] that "[Paul's] letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction." I doubt he included himself as an ignorant and unstable person who distorted what Paul wrote. It is clear that he is referring to others who twisted the gospel that had been given to Paul.

Paul did say he was the greatest sinner, and this is the one time I take Paul seriously. Why Paul is hard to understand is his epistles are private or not universal where as the other epistles are universal. Paul's epistles are only parts of continuing conversations and we are not privy to the whole conversation.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

YES YES YES.....GOD's THOUGHTS/ideas!!!! Not word for word occultic automatic handwriting

never suggested such..*shrugs*

You do understand the difference between Him being the Word/LOGOS versus Jesus speaking the words/RHEMA of God too don't you?

yeah, and the verses I referenced were Jesus quoting what had been written, because he knew them and understood them because they were in fact His Words.

And as I said 'your opinion'. Give me scripture supporting your opinion.

already gave them to you in Hebrews 1:1 and ephesians 2:19-20. the OT prophets and NT apostles were under the same guidance of the Spirit and are both the foundation of the church.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

Our communication seems to be tangled some how. I am saying your use of the word "inspired" is incorrect and that the scriptures do not say what you imply.

2 timothy 3:16-17 and 2 peter 1:20-21 are saying the same thing. the scriptures written by men where inspired by God. man wasn't off on his own thinking his own thoughts but were the thoughts and words of the LORD through the Spirit.

you're welcomed to prove otherwise..

what is transcribed on to paper with ink and molested is not Holy

I already mentioned the translators not being inspired like the prophets and apostles. despite this, God providentially did preserve His Word for His people.

With 2 Timothy 3:16-17, there is an assumption that the scriptures were unmolested, and Paul had access to the same scripture that Jesus had; this is not the case for us.

this verse doesn't deal with that issue. that verse is saying the OT prophets and NT apostles were lead by God in the Spirit to pen His Word.

Jeremiah 8:8 (NKJV)
8 "How can you say, 'We are wise, And the law of the LORD is with us'? Look, the false pen of the scribe certainly works falsehood.

not sure why this verse is being brought to bare unless you're saying the inspired prophets and apostles whom God directly chose were false scribes.

says nothing more than, the prophets of old did not make prophesy up, they did not interpret prophesy from scripture, but received prophesy directly from God;

same for the NT apostles.. ephesians 2:19-20